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Old 25th June 2013, 08:52   #451
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
And it translates to, SWB Defender with Tata engine, costing 15 lakhs ex factory ?
Oh thats double the on road Thar CRDe

Its fit finish ? Leaks ?

Sudarshan
It could also mean SWB defender with TML goodies at 5L ex factory. TML has deep pockets and can definitely price the vehicle attractively.

The TATA Sumo with some weight reduction [atleast 50%], change in suspension and a 4x4 with low ratio would / could do wonders too.
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Old 25th June 2013, 09:03   #452
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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It could also mean SWB defender with TML goodies at 5L ex factory.
Impossible, your auctioned & rebuilt 550 Jeep nearly/dearly costs that, look at those zillions of ads. I mean sellers frequently claim to have spent that !


Quote:
TML has deep pockets and can definitely price the vehicle attractively
Another 1 lakh NANO ? Ok lets dream it.

Quote:
The TATA Sumo with some weight reduction [atleast 50%], change in suspension and a 4x4 with low ratio would / could do wonders too.
The platform is IS based, your arch enemy Would you accept the IS ?

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 25th June 2013 at 09:10.
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Old 25th June 2013, 09:21   #453
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Impossible, your auctioned & rebuilt 550 Jeep nearly/dearly costs that, look at those zillions of ads. I mean sellers frequently claim to have spent that !




Another 1 lakh NANO ? Ok lets dream it.



The platform is IS based, your arch enemy Would you accept the IS ?

Sudarshan
Sudarshan Jee

1. The selling price of most refurbished jeeps cannot be equated at all - Each builder / owner have their own kinks in doing it up - What suits me would not suit you etc..

2. If a Nano can come at 1L ex factory, so can a SUMO 4x4 at 5L ex factory. The dies, toolings, engine are all already in place, only a reworked suspension and a 4x4 is needed. Even a 4x4 GB is available.

3. Infact, the only area to work on is the suspension - I meant Solid Axle COIL Springs, not the infamous cheap IFS we get to see frequently.

IFF, they manage to get the SA CS setup, they have a killer. With TML having Landrover in their pockets have access to their design house as well. A good tried and tested design is very important in a vehicle especially OFFROAD performing vehicle

Last edited by headers : 25th June 2013 at 09:22.
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Old 25th June 2013, 09:33   #454
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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The TATA Sumo with some weight reduction [atleast 50%], change in suspension and a 4x4 with low ratio would / could do wonders too.
I think that will be re-work of the platform & chassis. The front part of Sumo 4x4 chassis is not the same as the front part of the regular Sumo, but is almost /pretty much like the chassis of the 4x4 Safari (not Storme).
This is also why a regular Sumo cannot be modified to a 4x4.

So if you want solid axle up front in the SUmo, then we are talking of new set up

note: above points are from what little I have seen of a 4x4 Sumo, in a TASS.
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Old 25th June 2013, 10:18   #455
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No ifs, safari 4x4 is not ideal..

That's why I said redesign
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Old 25th June 2013, 10:46   #456
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear mallumowgli - don't be too sure about it! There is a will, so there is a way! Life is abundantly wonderful just now, I'm lovin' it! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Well, well - now there is a reason why I wont buy a Thar

Let others go berserk and take this thread tangentially!! For the moment I will just dream till you come up with a "what you want in your new...." thread!!
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Old 25th June 2013, 11:38   #457
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Tata is working on a Sumo soft top for Police and Govt supplies to compete with Thar DI.

If DB works on it a 4x4 version might come out too.

It wont be a country defender. This will take a few years. Tata JLR want to start a factory in China and export it from there.

In case of Jeep Wrangler - there will be lesser duty. Most of the parts are being developed in Pune / nasik / Gurgaon / Chennai & Banglore.

In India we have reached a certain level of drive train systems, body tub and engine assembly expertise now because of the business volumes being generated out of Mahindra, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, Tata, Nissan, Ford, Chevvy and others in India now. Things are very different.

Development to the next two notches was achieved in stages by :

Maruti in 1982 when they set the ball rolling for production since 1986 on the second generation M 800

Ford, Hyundai and greater achievements happened when :

Mahindra launched Scorpio M Hawk and XUV 500
Volkswagon developed systems for Polo and Vento
Toyota set the ball rolling steadly and carefully with Qualis launch, then before Innova was launced, Denso started operating in India.
To some extent Tata too when they needed a notch up in engineering for Xenon, Storme and Aria. These products were not derived from parts bins, there was R & D and development involved.

The Thar Canopy was an innovation in the right direction.

Bosch went through a development phase to launch a number of new products for these cars, and diesel engine equipment.

Lucas TVS and Hella, roots , minda etc. saw a lot of development.

Changes were also brought about by Commercial vehicles, fork lifts, JCB, Volvo and AMW trucks entering India.

It is not so difficult now to asseble, develop and launch a Car in India without a CKD assembly route.

Last edited by desertfox : 25th June 2013 at 11:47.
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Old 25th June 2013, 11:48   #458
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Apart from all other aspects, we are forgetting the "SAFETY" factor here. Thar could well be among'st the most "unsafe" vehicles in India rubbing shoulders with Omni & the likes. I think Off-roaders need that much extra safety than regular on-road vehicles. Hope & wish like the emission norms fazed out certain vehicles, new safety norms come into place & we could finally say good-buy to "road unworthy" vehicles. Only such a move can send manufacturers back to drawing boards to come up with contemporary vehicles & stop exploiting the nearly half a decade old designs & literally putting occupants into a death trap.

Fellow offroaders who care for own & their families safety, avoid such vehicles that are potentially very dangerous.

Also that you would be getting a jugaad jeep even after spending your hard-earned ~8L. Let the 521 myth, CMVR jargon, Company policies not confuse/brain-wash you into buying the crap of the decade.
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Old 25th June 2013, 11:51   #459
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

If you are a genuine hardcore off roader then a proper roll bar, mounted and welded to the Chassis not canopy brackets is a must.

Not for casual weekend type picnic off roading. For that one must be a careful driver and respect nature and its obstacles, no foolishness, that will be enough.
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:27   #460
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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If you are a genuine hardcore off roader then a proper roll bar, mounted and welded to the Chassis not canopy brackets is a must.

Not for casual weekend type picnic off roading. For that one must be a careful driver and respect nature and its obstacles, no foolishness, that will be enough.
Roll-cage, etc. are ok in case of a roll-over etc. but that shall not protect in case of a collision. Most owners shall be driving their vehicles on Highways too, without any crumple zones or crash worthiness, safety features like bull-bars, roll-bars, etc. will not serve purpose. So its ideally a bomb-shell you'll be sitting in! Guess the 4X4 craze ain't worth lying with broken bones, fractured skull & in a pool of blood with no one even picking/pulling you out of the vehicle or off the ground, till you either bleed to death or a sub-dural haematoma does that for you! If you are lucky enough to reach a hospital in time, wait for atleast 6 months to get back on your feet, that is if limbs survive.

"Enough" as the manufacturer says, we've provided with a vehicle with such & such features with the given CMVR restrictions & Company policies, etc. a similar "enough" ? NO that won't do.

Last edited by AWD : 25th June 2013 at 12:35.
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:35   #461
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I dont think there are any CMVR restrictions imposed on Mahindra to make the vehicle safer. An outstanding crash impact resinstance crumple zone body like Toyota's GOA - Global Outstanding assessment program will do no harm at all. But Mahindra are not in that league yet, nowhere close to it in fact.

The MM540 / 550 body which they got from Kia motors is far outdated in design. Jeep no longer knows who is Mahindra, maybe oh those old dealers of CJ3B ? They went out with CJ3B.

So at best our desi desperado who wants to hit 120 on Indian highways is at the mercy of that ugly looking bull bar sold by Mahindra. Or else someone will have to invent an airbag for the Thar like people invented a hard top and leaf springs.
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Old 25th June 2013, 12:44   #462
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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I dont think there are any CMVR restrictions imposed on Mahindra to make the vehicle safer. An outstanding crash impact resinstance crumple zone body like Toyota's GOA - Global Outstanding assessment program will do no harm at all. But Mahindra are not in that league yet, nowhere close to it in fact.

So at best our desi desperado who wants to hit 120 on Indian highways is at the mercy of that ugly looking bull bar sold by Mahindra. Or else someone will have to invent an airbag for the Thar like people invented a hard top and leaf springs.
Not yet but India desperately needs something like EURONCAP to push manufacturers like Mahindra to offer basic safety. If TATA can build a safe NANO, there's no reason why Mahindra should shy away from providing basic safety in an ~8L vehicle. While some manufacturers take it as their own responsibility to provide basic safety in their vehciles.

Also important to note that CMVR may not be forcing Mahindra to provide basic safety in their vehicles but at the same time they are not stopping/restricting them not to do so. Like its said, we could not go ahead/could not do so due to CMVR restrictions, what stopped them here!!

Fellow Jeepers please don't buy such unsafe kachra, your lives are much more important than your 4x4 aspirations. Force the manufacturers to provide basic levels of comfort, convenience & safety.

Why just a desi-desperado when the 521 is heard of some great antics on Mumbai-Pune expressway!

Last edited by AWD : 25th June 2013 at 13:03.
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Old 25th June 2013, 14:10   #463
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Crude finish, iffy brakes, rattly body, leaky soft top , non functioning hand brake, 4wd lever needs biceps of steel.

Does the soft top leak through the material or is the water getting in from the rear flaps/ side gaps? ....Because mine hasnt leaked a drop so far and it has witnessed the notorious Mumbai monsoons for the last 2 years.
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Old 25th June 2013, 15:28   #464
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The owner is on this thread so I will only post my observation- water was getting in through the roof material near the canopy bracket.
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Old 27th June 2013, 12:37   #465
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Dear all - please read the message that I have recieved by SMS from a Thar owner. He is not on the forum, therefore, I am taking the liberty of posting this message on his behalf:

"Dear Behram Sir, the aftermarket things being circulated for Thar CRDe are not working. The hard tops are leaking and the bumpers / tire carriers are either tearing the vehicle or falling from the vehicle. Forget about off-roading, this happens on vehicles running on highways also. I am using stock Thar from the last 7 months and nothing has fallen. The soft top is just amazing. . Time to accept the truth". .

(he has mentioned his name, vehicle color and registration number. I have the SMS. So, my dear gentlemen, after all, to each his own, its your call! There is nothing left to say now)!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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