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Old 5th April 2015, 21:16   #121
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
Can you please provide similar info for Fortuner 4X4? Also, please point me to a place where I can read more about the topic. Sorry, I don't have mechanical background but am interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Gear ratios for the manual 5-speed 3.0 D4-D 4wd Fortuner:
1st gear: 4.313
2nd gear: 2.330
3rd gear: 1.436
4th gear: 1.000
5th gear: 0.838
Reverse gear: 4.220
Low range: 2.566
Final drive: 3.909(?)

More information:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Moot question. Since:
- Duster AWD 1st gear ratio: 4.48
- Duster AWD reverse gear ratio: 3.09
- Scorpio 4wd reverse gear ratio: 3.524

@1100D: Your Excel sheet would need to be put to some more use.
Yes, the scenario in Reverse for the Duster isn't looking good. If the Scorpio's 4L 2nd gear figure was the threshold, the number for Duster is lower than that even (forget comparing against Scorpio's Reverse gear)

The Fortuner has no "pulling force" issues though!

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-duster.jpg

Now coming back to the Duster, the only place where the reverse will need to be put to use, will be on the way back, that too on the tighter hairpins, somehow, I have a feeling that the tighter hairpins have flatter surface (similar to staircase landings - but only fractionally lower slope in comparison to the sections off the hairpin)

Like this one

The first Hairpin left has a distinct lower slope compared to the straight sections, and the subsequent right hand curve is good enough not to require a reversing.

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-img_1086.jpg

The Hiarpins shown above photographed from down below

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-img_1088.jpg

Even this hairpin, which appears to gain a lot of height, while at the hairpin itself, will have a little run-off area beyond the line not visible in pic (indicated by arrows), so a careful driver can probably leverage that, so as to prepare the car for the turn ahead of the actual hairpin (so as not to need reversing against the slope "in" the hairpin)

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-dsc001061.jpg

One interesting thing to ask, would be, if the Duster will at all need reversing? Anyone has the Turning circle information of the Duster AWD vs the Scorpio's? Even in that case, the Scorpio's turning circle was sufficient in all of the turns on the way up, but was somehow insufficient on the way down! Maybe the vehicle was understeering on the slope on the way down (versus clawing tight on the way up plus it was the MLD at work, pushing the tail out).
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Old 5th April 2015, 22:16   #122
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Anyone has the Turning circle information of the Duster AWD vs the Scorpio's? .
Duster 5.2 m
Older Generation Scorpio 5.7 m
2014 Scorpio 5.4 m
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Old 5th April 2015, 22:21   #123
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

The 4WD's turning radius even for the newer generation is longer, I think it is at 5.7m, as the older Scorpio.

Why don't you guys drive the AWD to Sandakphu and put an end to this debate? I know of 3 guys (from Calcutta) having AWD Duster on Team BHP. If some one volunteers.
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Old 6th April 2015, 00:34   #124
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Why don't you guys drive the AWD to Sandakphu and put an end to this debate? I know of 3 guys (from Calcutta) having AWD Duster on Team BHP. If some one volunteers.
Hold on, lets not end up pushing anyone. With the reverse gear ratio calculation, this is not looking too favourable. The vehicle might end up at S'phu, while the safety on return leg doesn't look too promising.

Driving back on those slopes are really scary and can affect nerves, especially with this background knowledge at the back of the mind.

In an OTR, all this is fine, as the environment is "controlled", but here, a failure can cost loss of property or injury (or the worst, life).

As a responsible community, I guess, we need to take a stand now. It is not going to be "safe".
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Old 6th April 2015, 07:48   #125
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Btw, the newer generation Scorpio comes with 235/65 R17 wheels. Would be worthwhile to include that too in the spreadsheet ?
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Old 6th April 2015, 09:50   #126
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
Thank you sir. Is there a good place that explains these numbers in more detail? Right now, they are just numbers for me
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Originally Posted by bullrun87 View Post
take a look at the link below
Thanks, bullrun87, for the video, which explains quite simply what FORTified is looking for.

@FORTified: you might also want to go through this thread (Driving all four wheels: how is it done?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
The vehicle might end up at S'phu, while the safety on return leg doesn't look too promising.
As a responsible community, I guess, we need to take a stand now. It is not going to be "safe".
LOL... as they say in Bengali, the situation would be akin to গাছে তুলে মই কেড়ে নেওয়া (removing the ladder after getting someone to climb a tall tree with it).
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Old 6th April 2015, 11:43   #127
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by chandras1 View Post
Btw, the newer generation Scorpio comes with 235/65 R17 wheels. Would be worthwhile to include that too in the spreadsheet ?

Its a very small difference in the overall rolling radius, 14.48 inch on the older Scorpio vs 14.51 on the new one a difference of about 0.25% only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

LOL... as they say in Bengali, the situation would be akin to গাছে তুলে মই কেড়ে নেওয়া (removing the ladder after getting someone to climb a tall tree with it).
True, but its all fine when its done playfully, but this might result in a serious consequence. Because, unable to go somewhere is one thing, one can always bail out, but not able to come back from there, would leave that person with no other chance, but to risk themselves.
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Old 6th April 2015, 12:42   #128
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Default Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveTrain View Post
Duster 5.2 m
Older Generation Scorpio 5.7 m
2014 Scorpio 5.4 m
Hmmm. Fortuner turning radius is 5.9m, it is longer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Hold on, lets not end up pushing anyone. With the reverse gear ratio calculation, this is not looking too favourable. The vehicle might end up at S'phu, while the safety on return leg doesn't look too promising.
How good is engine braking in the Duster in real life, and would the Duster's hill descent control system (assuming the AWD Duster has it) be able to handle a long steep slope? What would be the impact on the brakes due to constant braking?

In a vehicle that doesn't have 4L, or a good HDC system, climbing up would be easier than going down .

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
LOL... as they say in Bengali, the situation would be akin to গাছে তুলে মই কেড়ে নেওয়া (removing the ladder after getting someone to climb a tall tree with it)
Lol. That's what I thought when I was wondering about braking and HDC system.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 6th April 2015 at 12:47.
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Old 6th April 2015, 12:52   #129
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Default Re: Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
How good is engine braking in the Duster in real life, and would the Duster's hill descent control system (assuming the AWD Duster has it) be able to handle a long steep slope?
Not sure if Duster has it, but HDC works as well as low range gearbox on steep descent. On Ladakh drives, i never skip a downhill shortcut. Even with prolonged usage on steep descents i have not experienced any brake fade or heating issues.
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Old 6th April 2015, 12:57   #130
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORTified View Post
Thank you sir. Is there a good place that explains these numbers in more detail? Right now, they are just numbers for me
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullrun87 View Post
take a look at the link below
Another interesting thread on a related topic:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ine-works.html (Explained: How an Engine works)

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 6th April 2015, 21:48   #131
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Default Re: Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
One interesting thing to ask, would be, if the Duster will at all need reversing?
Normally no. But if you meet a vehicle coming the other way, and have to reverse to find space for both vehicles to pass. By convention the vehicle going downhill has to make way. So if you have not spotted the ascending vehicle in advance and stopped at a suitable spot, you will have to reverse uphill to a suitable spot.
Chances of meeting another vehicle are low, but not zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
As a responsible community, I guess, we need to take a stand now. It is not going to be "safe".
Tongue firmly in cheek?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Fortuner ...
I had told myself I would not comment on this thread, but I think I should put in a word. If the Fortuner can make it past the bridge, it can reach S'Phu. But it would be rather low down on my list of vehicle choices for driving to S'Phu.

Regarding gradient, just to put things in perspective (for those who know their Darjeeling roads), Pankhabari and Peshok have similar gradients, (but Peshok is far easier than Pankhabari). (The Singla or Goke roads are slightly steeper). The final 3 Km to S'Phu has twice the gradient of Pankhabari. Over unsealed roads.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 6th April 2015 at 22:12.
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Old 7th April 2015, 00:14   #132
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Default Re: Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post

Tongue firmly in cheek?


Regards
Sutripta
No Sir, no sarcasm at all.

The drive back is a test of nerves in either case, with the reverse ratio, this might just be a little bit too risky, besides if there is a Landrover on the opposite direction trying to make its way up, it will be a sin to obstruct it.
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Old 7th April 2015, 09:57   #133
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Default Re: Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I had told myself I would not comment on this thread, but I think I should put in a word. If the Fortuner can make it past the bridge, it can reach S'Phu. But it would be rather low down on my list of vehicle choices for driving to S'Phu.

Regarding gradient, just to put things in perspective (for those who know their Darjeeling roads), Pankhabari and Peshok have similar gradients, (but Peshok is far easier than Pankhabari). (The Singla or Goke roads are slightly steeper). The final 3 Km to S'Phu has twice the gradient of Pankhabari. Over unsealed roads.

Regards
Sutripta
Care to elaborate about the Fortuner? Length and turning radius? A little Googling tells me that the Fortuner is 1840 mm wide, the Scorpio is 1816mm wide. That is one inch difference. Is that bridge so narrow?

Re Pankhabari: I remember going on that route even in a Maruti Omni van. But it was many years back, don't remember much about the route.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 7th April 2015 at 09:59.
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Old 7th April 2015, 11:25   #134
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Default Re: Brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Care to elaborate about the Fortuner? Length and turning radius? A little Googling tells me that the Fortuner is 1840 mm wide, the Scorpio is 1816mm wide. That is one inch difference. Is that bridge so narrow?

The answer to your question is below!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post

However, there could be one "bottleneck" (almost literally), its a small bridge in the forest section between the Sangalila entry and Gairibash. The width of this narrow and weak concrete bridge might be just sufficient for the Fortuner, but (while going to S'phu) the entry to this bridge is on a curve, with very limited runoff, even Scorpio's wheelbase (since you are entering the bridge at an angle/curve) was a tight fit. You will need to be careful here, probably good "spotting" can see you through.
In this case, apart from the 1inch Width difference, the Fortuner Wheelbase is longer by almost 3 inches (Scorpio WB - 2680mm, Fortuner WB - 2750mm). When one is entering the bridge at an angle, the length between the wheels is the determining factor. But like I said, maybe, careful spotting can see one through. But once on the bridge, the width will just be sufficient.
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Old 7th April 2015, 11:43   #135
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

I am curious how big is an old land rover? From what I read, old land rovers with very weak engines regularly do this.
Speaking of tight narrow spaces, the Duster has an edge over all others. The worse would be the old safari, with the Storme also having an edge with 5.4 meters turning radius.
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