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Old 23rd September 2015, 17:05   #1
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Default IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

India's US$2.5 Billion Purchase: All you need to know about the IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters

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AH-64E Apache Guardian
Pic Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache

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Weapon load-out of the AH-64 Apache
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General characteristics

Crew: 2 (pilot, and co-pilot/gunner)
Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft 0 in (14.63 m)
Height: 12.7 ft (3.87 m)
Disc area: 1,809.5 ft˛ (168.11 m˛)
Empty weight: 11,387 lb (5,165 kg)
Loaded weight: 17,650 lb (8,000 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701 turboshafts, 1,690 shp (1,260 kW) [upgraded to T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D from 1990), 1,890 shp (1,409 kW)] each
Fuselage length: 49 ft 5 in (15.06 m)
Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor, 4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment

Performance

Never exceed speed: 197 knots (227 mph, 365 km/h)
Maximum speed: 158 knots (182 mph, 293 km/h)
Cruise speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h)
Range: 257 nmi (295 mi, 476 km) with Longbow radar mast
Combat radius: 260 nmi (300 mi, 480 km)
Ferry range: 1,024 nmi (1,180 mi, 1,900 km)
Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m) minimum loaded
Rate of climb: 2,500 ft/min (12.7 m/s)
Disc loading: 9.80 lb/ft˛ (47.9 kg/m˛)
Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (0.31 kW/kg)

Armament

Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds as part of the Area Weapon Subsystem
Hardpoints: Four pylon stations on the stub wings. Longbows also have a station on each wingtip for an AIM-92 Stinger twin missile pack.
Rockets: Hydra 70 70 mm, and CRV7 70 mm air-to-ground rockets
Missiles: Typically AGM-114 Hellfire variants; AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried.

Avionics

Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar (Note: can only be mounted on the AH-64D/E)

Wikipedia website also mentions " India - Indian Air Force (AH-64E: 22 on order)"

Data Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache

As per MSN India website, the following was reported.
Have you ever seen a helicopter do a back-flip rollover? Or come out of a nose dive and launching straight into attack?

Not only does the Apache AH-64 - a multi-role attack helicopter - have guns that the gunner can control just by moving his head, it also boasts an impressive array of weaponry and a proven battlefield record going back to the early 1990's.

And India has just bought 22 such helicopters ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the US. The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) on Tuesday cleared a multi-billion dollar deal for 22 Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers with American aviation giant Boeing. These will replace the Indian Air Force's present fleet of Mi-35 Hind-E helicopters.

American companies have over the last decade bagged defence contracts from India worth around $10 billion, including for aircraft like P-8I maritime surveillance planes, C-130J 'Super Hercules' and C-17 Globemaster-III in the transport category.

India will also be acquiring Hellfire missiles and rockets that make the Apache AH-64 such a formidable beast.The 22 Apache AH 64E Guardian helicopters are some of the most advanced multi-role combat helicopters, featuring all-weather and night-fighting features.

The radar automatically searches, detects, locates, classifies, and prioritizes fixed and moving targets on land, sea and in the air in all weather environments and battlefield conditions.
It is the perfect combat machine, and something the IAF will be proud to add to its repertoire of weapon platforms.

According to Boeing, the AH-64 is capable of classification and threat-prioritisation of upto 128 stationary targets in less than a minute and engage with 16. That's right, 16. Apart from that the Apache AH-64E also has stealth characteristics, advanced sensors and beyond-visual-range missiles.

The AH-64E Apache has a four-blade main rotor and a four-blade tail rotor. The crew sits in tandem, with the pilot sitting behind and above the copilot/gunner. Not only that but it has a combination of laser-guided precision Hellfire missiles, 70mm rockets, and a 30mm automatic cannon with up to 1,200 high-explosive, dual-purpose ammunition rounds.

Fitted with air-to-air missiles, an Apache helicopter has the capability to take on enemy choppers and UAV, thereby providing support to ground troops. This variant can also operate over land and,sea and that's one of the reasons it has been used extensively in the conflict zones of Afghanistan, and Iraq.

Between 1984 and 1997, Boeing produced 937 AH-64As for the US Army, Egypt, Greece, Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

Capable of detecting 256 moving targets and engaging them, the twin-engine Apache is operated by two pilots. The AH-64E Apache has the ability to control unmanned aerial vehicles. The Apache also uses a self-sealing fuel system to protect against the loss of fuel caused by ballistic projectiles.

The Apache came up against stiff competition from Russia, which had offered its Mi-28N Night Hunter and Mi-26 heavy-lift copters. Both have been in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq.

MSN Article Source: http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/nation...=mailsignoutmd

Last edited by embee : 24th September 2015 at 13:46.
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Old 23rd September 2015, 20:15   #2
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I think this is beginning of a shift in strategy of India to look towards US and EU for supplies, instead of relying just on Russia and Israel like in the past.

Good for the nation.
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Old 24th September 2015, 00:17   #3
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As per Wikipedia, In 2008, the Indian Air Force (IAF) released a tender for 22 attack helicopters; there were six contending submissions—Sikorsky's UH-60 Black Hawk, the AH-64D, Bell's AH-1 Super Cobra, Eurocopter's Tiger, Mil's Mi-28 and AgustaWestland's A129 Mangusta. In October 2008, Boeing and Bell withdrew.

In 2009, the competition was restarted and a new Apache proposal was submitted.

In December 2010, India requested the possible sale of 22 AH-64Ds and associated equipment.

On 5 October 2012, IAF Chief NAK Browne confirmed the AH-64D Block III's selection. In October 2012, India transferred most armed helicopters from the IAF to the Army Aviation Corps. The IAF sought to maintain control of the 22 proposed Apaches for air combat missions, the Indian Army argued that they would be better used in army operations.

In April 2013, the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) decided that the IAF would receive the 22 AH-64s as it was an ongoing acquisition. In May 2013, the Indian Army requested 11 AH-64Es; and has a requirement for 39 Apaches.

In August 2014, the Indian Ministry of Defence approved the AH-64Es procurement. India's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the order in September 2015.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
I think this is beginning of a shift in strategy of India to look towards US and EU for supplies, instead of relying just on Russia and Israel like in the past.

Good for the nation.
You're right. India; now being recognised as a major super power with super buying power as well should look elsewhere for modern weapons.

Hypothetically speaking, if you consider Russia as a person, they are the ones who consider you (India) as a friend only when circumstances are pleasant or profitable. Basically a fairweather friend.

Last edited by Eddy : 24th September 2015 at 00:36. Reason: Merged
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Old 24th September 2015, 04:27   #4
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
I think this is beginning of a shift in strategy of India to look towards US and EU for supplies, instead of relying just on Russia and Israel like in the past.

Good for the nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by embee View Post
Hypothetically speaking, if you consider Russia as a person, they are the ones who consider you (India) as a friend only when circumstances are pleasant or profitable. Basically a fairweather friend.
In what way are American weapons superior to Russian ones? The MiG's ans Sukhoi's are far superior to the American jets. Also I think the Russians have an equivalent of the Apache.
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Old 24th September 2015, 09:34   #5
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

As per media reports, IAF rejected all other contenders and went ahead with Apache based on the trials they did. I think the Russians are furious and going ahead with PAK for selling their attach helicopters and Sukhois.

Last edited by GTO : 25th September 2015 at 10:50. Reason: Typos
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Old 24th September 2015, 10:59   #6
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Why are the schematics in Cryllic when it is an American machine..?
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Old 24th September 2015, 11:46   #7
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Aren't choppers usually part of the Army.
Cavalry "troopers" right?

(That's what I recall from watching tons of B grade American war movies that used to come on AXN in the 90s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by embee View Post
Hypothetically speaking, if you consider Russia as a person, they are the ones who consider you (India) as a friend only when circumstances are pleasant or profitable. Basically a fairweather friend.
When in personal interactions most people are friends only during fair weather, what makes you think that hypothetical entities like nations will act as a friend in need = friend indeed?

The honest fact is that most military purchases are heavily influenced with specs tailor made to favor one bidder. And it is not only the manufacturing companies that "influence" but also the manufacturer's home country diplomats and politicians.
Russians perhaps could not gather enough clout in this case and lost to the Americans.

Last edited by alpha1 : 24th September 2015 at 11:57.
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Old 24th September 2015, 12:15   #8
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

I remember seeing a program on Nat Geo where an AH-64 was shown sneaking behind a treeline and then come out to launch its Hellfires. Looked very menacing.
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Old 24th September 2015, 16:24   #9
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

From any enemies point of view - this is easily the most menacing and fearsome sight to be seen on the horizon.

Fully equipped to unleash terror and devastation within minutes, the Apaches are most pilots dream material outside of mach speeds!

I always used to think why 'we' don't have these with us, our air defence just got some serious muscle now.

Jai Hind!
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Old 24th September 2015, 16:58   #10
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

It's a shame India did not consider the Denel Rooivalk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_Rooivalk

I've seen one of these things fly and it is quite impressive.

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Old 24th September 2015, 17:42   #11
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Few Apache videos I found on YouTube.





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Old 24th September 2015, 17:56   #12
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Thanks embee for sharing this. This would be one of the most modern "gadget" with the Indian armed forces provided they get the fully loaded variant used by the US Armed forces and not one of the "LXi" variants doled out by the Americans.

Any idea whether these would be outright purchase in CBU mode or produced here under Make in India?

PS: I remember seeing one programme in Nat Geo or Discovery, where they demonstrated the capabilities of the Apache. The targeting system of the machine gun mounted underneath is calibrated with the pilots helmet visor, so the pilot just have to look and centre the cross hairs at the target on his visor and the machine gun also moves with each movement of the pilots head. Pilot just needs to push the button and target is decimated. Wow, looked super cool...

That Apache was also equipped with a multi barrel Gatling type machine gun firing 6000 rounds per minute. Now, thats what I call firing on all cylinders.
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Old 24th September 2015, 18:38   #13
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

I have never understood what use these attack helicopters have in the Indian Air Force or Army.

If you see any videos of these kind of choppers in action, it is against insurgents and terrorists in Iraq, Af., etc. India will never make the mistake of using its air power within its own borders ( made once before in Nagaland in the 50's )

Then where and against who? Pakistani and Chinese armies both have Stinger and equivalent missiles and excellent air defence capabilities. These attack choppers would be almost assuredly shot down. Remember Kargil where a Mig-21 ( but not the Mig 27 of Nachiketa) and a Mi-17 were brought down by shoulder-fired missiles, most likely Stingers.

Even extremely well armoured attack jets like the A-10 Warthog and the Russian Su-25( see the videos of the Russian-Georgian conflicts of recent years) cannot face professional enemies with a high level of confidence.

What then will these choppers do for India? Do we need these ? I vote for more buses to ferry the army school kids! The way the Ashok Leyland and TATA all wheel drive trucks are being mis-used for such duties, what are we going to have left for actual combat?

Last edited by john doe : 24th September 2015 at 18:41.
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Old 24th September 2015, 18:39   #14
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Default re: IAF's shiny new Apache Helicopters - India's $2.5 billion purchase

Is India getting the full spec fully loaded Apache or is it a version sans the Apache signature equipment?
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Old 24th September 2015, 18:39   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer4x4 View Post
Thanks embee for sharing this. This would be one of the most modern "gadget" with the Indian armed forces provided they get the fully loaded variant used by the US Armed forces and not one of the "LXi" variants doled out by the Americans.

Any idea whether these would be outright purchase in CBU mode or produced here under Make in India?
Hi wanderer4x4,

I think these helicopters are straight and outright purchase from the American Government so as to fulfill the immediate needs of IAF.

And maybe it can be a "hello/hi/how do you do" gift from our PM Modi to POTUS during his current visit to the USA.
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