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Old 22nd August 2015, 15:10   #46
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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One reason is that global production of the Micra from India is ending soon. My guess is that the line will be used for the Kwid but volumes will not be high as this is for local demand and not global!
While I think this is the primary reason behind this move.

facts remain that:

1. Nissan-Renault have a pretty customer insensitive and rigid service network. First they handed out sales & service to Hover, a very dodgy entity in first instance, and secondly they were skimping on quality by replacing interiors with cheaper plastics and we do not know what was missing in structural sense. As someone said, a budget car called dacia duster was made even more spartan and budget barebones for India. If this isn't insulting enough to the customer, one can't see what is.

2. Can a bus and a tempo have the same engine. If it were left to Renault, they pretty much would.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 15:34   #47
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

IMO, The Renault and Nissan in India is a quarrel-kid. Look at the number of partners they had in India - Allwyn, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland. They team-up, and break up in no time.

This decision may be part of that burshua'istic mentality.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 16:37   #48
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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Originally Posted by Shashidl View Post
In the current scenario how good a decision would it be to buy a new Lodgy?
My family really liked the car and we were thinking of buying one, now I think we have to look elsewhere.
Are there chances of the company shutting shop? I know I am thinking too much but now i am skeptical of investing a cool 12lac on a car which is not selling much in the market.
If you're interested in the Lodgy, more than Renault, you should look into the service centre in your area that's gonna service your car. Are they good enough? If yes, then half your decision is already made.

I bought a Lodgy knowing fully well it's gonna be a sales dud. I don't buy cars for re-sale, I buy with my heart, never with my head.

It's been good so far and the service centre that I use is the same concern that also runs a Maruti Suzuki showroom and service centre just next door. Both service centres are under the same management. If a dealer has passed MSIL's stringent service standards, I knew their service will be pretty good.

And that's what I recently found out when I went to change a fused after market headlamp bulb. The service technician changed the bulb for me free of cost and didn't charge a penny. He didn't have to do that because it was an after market bulb that I fitted outside and it was a shoddy job. Renault's service guys did it for free even though I popped in on a day without prior appointment. So yeah, if your local dealer's good, you're good to go.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 19:23   #49
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Just looked at Renault website. 2013 models are available at hefty discount of 4.5 Lakhs. Looks like they are flushing out stock. Why can't they offer such aggressive discounts on duster now rather than keeping it in yard till next year and sell at heafty discount next year.

Of topic: What is the risk of buying a 2013 fluence at such a discount except for resale value. This discount is tempting me.

Last edited by sathya_g_m : 22nd August 2015 at 19:26.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 21:18   #50
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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Of topic: What is the risk of buying a 2013 fluence at such a discount except for resale value. This discount is tempting me.
If the service centre is in your area or reasonably accessible and provides good service then take the plunge. I assume you have read the reviews on Team BHP on the car and satisfied yourself. It is a good looking car. More than resale price your risk will be difficulty of getting parts in a few years time.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 23:15   #51
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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I bought a Lodgy knowing fully well it's gonna be a sales dud. I don't buy cars for re-sale, I buy with my heart, never with my head.
.
Accessibility to service center is one aspect, on the other side one also needs to take care if the spare parts are available easily.If the car is not sold in numbers one could encounter spares not being available of the shelf.The dealer needs to order and get it and it would take time.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 09:30   #52
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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Accessibility to service center is one aspect, on the other side one also needs to take care if the spare parts are available easily.If the car is not sold in numbers one could encounter spares not being available of the shelf.The dealer needs to order and get it and it would take time.
We are speaking like Renault is shutting shop tomorrow! Downsizing is not closure and as long as the Duster's around, there's no problem for the Lodgy. There's quite a fan following for the Duster for its ruggedness and durability that none of the pseudo crossovers have earned yet. For me, 50% of the reason for buying the Lodgy is the awesome dCi engine. Having lived with anaemic engines like the 1.3 MJD on a 7 seater like the Ertiga, this engine is a revelation. And the reliability of this engine is legendary. Spares shouldn't be a problem in the long run for the kind of investment and commitment Renault has made for the Indian market.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 11:20   #53
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
...
There is immense respect for the Duster from most quarters, even as everyone acknowledges that its over-priced. It is not a HM Ambassador that very few even wanted to buy once the new crop of cars was released.

This is nothing which a little discount and strong customer orientation cannot fix. But yes, it requires management to think differently and work hard on ensuring customer delight. Its not impossible, and like GTO said, they just need to listen to their customer and treat him like God. They also need to support their STAR dealers (e.g Nath Nissan in Delhi was a star dealer but shut down due to difficulties) who customers flock to.

............. but will they?

/and if Fiat's experience is anything to go by, it won't be easy / quick either.
Add to that, the fact that some Renault dealers are also cartelized and out to fool Renault as well.

For a while. in July ,I had been courting Renault dealerships in NCR for a AWD Duster (top of the line variant). Separate enquiries at different dealerships, allowed me to figure out that the dealerships themselves run as a cartel.

During price negotiations, it became evident that the dealers share customer price point between themselves. One of the three dealers had probably let the other two know, what price point I was okay with coming up to. This surprised me no end when I discovered it.

However, I carried on the final negotiations with one dealer. At the time, I asked for something more than the standard offer: Standard Discount + Exchange Offer+ Corporate Discount. In effect, I wanted the dealer to come down on his own margin, and made that transparently clear during discussions.

We struck a deal for me to get the car at XX Lakhs which would not include the Exchange Offer (as at that time I had no intention to surrender my other car).

When the sales agent turns up at my residence to collect the booking amount, he asked me for a photocopy of my old car's RC.

It turns out, they would fabricate the exchange on paper - thus protecting their margin , and in effect swindling Renault.

When confronted the dealer principal denied the whole angle of malfeasance and put it down to a simple "misunderstanding"

This told me a simple fact. Even before the sale is made , if the dealer's attitude is "let me make my money, and to hell with the customer and the manufacturer" then; I would certainly be held to ransom in Service, if I actually went ahead with purchasing the car. They would know I am strapped on a barrel, and they would take every advantage of that. Not that other dealer networks are holier than thou. But this instance left a bad taste in the mouth due to the blatant way in which wrongdoing was sought to be committed.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 12:07   #54
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

It's strange for a car company to struggle in India. Did you know india is the worlds 2nd or 3rd largest exporter of cars in the world? Some 4 lakh cars were sent abroad last year.

I'm a bit of a nationalist and would like them to export say 20 or 30% of their cars.

Their names for cars is quite sad. I mean what is a lodgy? Is it very dodgy?

Fluence sounds like a smelly gas release!

And duster. Gawd that's like blackboard and duster.

Plus no one knew the reason for having 2 twins like a pulse and a micra sold alongside. Were they children of an unwed mother perhaps.

Let them close and go away.

I hope alpha romeo comes into india and buys this plant for their cars.

Last edited by hangover : 23rd August 2015 at 12:11.
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Old 23rd August 2015, 12:42   #55
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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And please have mercy while laying off 3000 people. They have families to feed! Instead take the other measures. Ask the top honchos to work for nominal fees for some time.

Indian business legends like JRD Tata, Walchand Hirachand, Kirloskar etc would have never considered "laying off" as profit maximizing mechanism. They cared for people and their families.

Time for you to set an example!
Sorry. The first responsibility of a company's management is to it's shareholders. If it is losing money, nothing wrong in laying off people. Otherwise, more employees as well as shareholders will suffer anyway.
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Old 24th August 2015, 10:29   #56
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

A million dollar Qs is still unaswered. Where are the offers on Duster
If car is not selling, why dont company roll out good offers. Trust me, even today they grab many sales if any sensible and genuine offer available this car.

Also, does this mean we aren't going to get facelifted duster?

Regards
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Old 24th August 2015, 16:53   #57
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Originally Posted by speed_edge View Post
A million dollar Qs is still unaswered. Where are the offers on Duster
If car is not selling, why dont company roll out good offers. Trust me, even today they grab many sales if any sensible and genuine offer available this car.

Also, does this mean we aren't going to get facelifted duster?

Regards
SE
I was one of them who celebrated after seeing July'15 sale analysis thread. I was planning on duster then and thought that poor sales will help my purchase with more discounts but August offer was rather dull. I am not interested in Gir forest or south Africa. They could have pushed more discounts than these lucky draws.
Further, payment for Ranbir and Rehman (no offences to them. I like them for what they do) could have been used for discount which would have boosted the sale. After all more cars on the road builds brand image than TV ads with stars.
Any how I adopted the so called "Herd" mentality and gone for Ciaz but will miss duster every time I go over bad roads.
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Old 27th August 2015, 12:45   #58
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

The 'suits' (primarily MBAs), as has been pointed out in an earlier comment, are often out of touch with the ground reality in terms of what the customers really want and rely on their own suppositions. This could very well have been the case here as they might have over-estimated growth in demand and jacked up production accordingly, ultimately leading to a stock pile of unsold vehicles because of which they have now had to downsize.

Another case in point where the 'suits' didn't know their prospective customers well enough was when they tried to sell the Nano as a cheap alternative for two-wheeler owners looking to upgrade to a car. It now seems that such a customer segment simply was not looking for a product like the Nano and preferred products such as the Maruti Alto and Hyundai Eon instead.

Perhaps the 'suits' should rely a lot more on market research based on surveys that have prospective and existing customers as respondents. They should also listen to feedback from their own dealers who consistently deal with prospective and existing customers.
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Old 27th August 2015, 17:36   #59
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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Another case in point where the 'suits' didn't know their prospective customers well enough was when they tried to sell the Nano as a cheap alternative for two-wheeler owners looking to upgrade to a car. It now seems that such a customer segment simply was not looking for a product like the Nano and preferred products such as the Maruti Alto and Hyundai Eon instead.
WRT the nano it was a classic case of bad marketing. The Darwin school of marketing if you like.

Take the case of the original beetle. It was an awful car and seriously underpowered. Yet they made movies and cultivated an image of coolness. I think they stopped making it only in 2013 in Mexico.

Even the VW bus/camper was a bad vehicle. But it got associated with the hippies and sold millions.

Nano had all the potential. Even the talk show host Jay Leno who is a car nut and has some 200 cars went and bought one.

Yet it became known as a kaamwalibai ki gaadi or worse. It could so easily have been India's batmobile.

Car companies must employ only ex racers or people showing evidence of being grease monkeys.

If you don't know a drain plug from a coffee mug you have no place in an auto company.

And yeah, the "suits" as you call them should stay at Mckenzie or PWC flipping excel sheets.

I haven't seen the Rehaman ad but I did see the Ranbir one. You wonder what the execs were smoking. If they'd gotten Rajanikant instead they'd all be still at their jobs.

Last edited by hangover : 27th August 2015 at 17:43.
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Old 27th August 2015, 19:09   #60
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Default Re: Renault-Nissan India begins massive downsizing

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I haven't seen the Rehaman ad but I did see the Ranbir one. You wonder what the execs were smoking. If they'd gotten Rajanikant instead they'd all be still at their jobs.
It's the same ad. Music is composed by Rahman.

Raftaar one.
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