[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

The way the Government is spending the taxpayers' money is outrageous. In this instance, HC judges are only human, and a newer car for the judiciary may be a good investment (not that they do not deserve it).

Agree 100%. Like any other government employee, they earn handsome salaries/perks and I can't see why they can't buy a car with their own money like all of us do. Maybe they can be given loans (at subsidised interest) and the EMIs collected from their salary. But giving away free cars is the height.

BTW, the TN govt. seems to be on a dole-out spree. Sometime ago there was a news item about how they gifted a Tata Sumo to each of the Panchayat chiefs in TN - I guess there are a few hundreds of them. Quite some business for Tata and quite some benefits to accrue for the govt. by this appeasement at the grassroot level.

[JayD]

The High court cars are pretty well maintained. they just need an excuse to change cars, that's all. Usually, these cars will be sold for a pittance.

[f450]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Agree 100%. Like any other government employee, they earn handsome salaries/perks and I can't see why they can't buy a car with their own money like all of us do. Maybe they can be given loans (at subsidised interest) and the EMIs collected from their salary. But giving away free cars is the height.

They don't earn salaries as handsome as you and me, and besides, there have got to be some privileges with being a judge or an IAS officer. If you still feel they should pay for their own cars, expect a lot more corruption! :P

Judges and IAS officers get free houses and vehicles, just like how a corporate employee gets a free phone (as in, his bills are paid).

[supremeBaleno]

@f450, I don't know your salary. And I am wondering how something that my company insists is very confidential ie. my salary, is known to you.

Anyway, what do you think these guys earn, since you seem to be knowledgeable about their salaries ? BTW, yesterday's paper had an item about a pay raise for judges (SC and HC) which IIRC was around 200%. In these times, maintaining status-quo in salary itself is a big deal for most people and here we are talking of 200%. I am sure they can afford cars like others.

And whatever gave you the idea that not giving them perks will corrupt them or vice-versa ? Infact one of the posts here was hinting about how this car thing itself is a kind of appeasement, if we can call it that.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

BTW, the TN govt. seems to be on a dole-out spree. Sometime ago there was a news item about how they gifted a Tata Sumo to each of the Panchayat chiefs in TN - I guess there are a few hundreds of them. Quite some business for Tata and quite some benefits to accrue for the govt. by this appeasement at the grassroot level.

How many mouths for how many years can say a Rs. 8+ lakh car feed??? Appeasement at the real grassroots level should mean that. However, funds are definitely budgeted and spent (you know where and by whom), but still more than 400 million of fellow human beings in this great country are barely surviving.

[esteem_lover]

SB, the government is not giving anything free to these Judges. Any Govt. official from the rank of under secretary & above is provided with a car for pick up & drop. As the topmost Judicial authority in the state, they are treated a little better than the others. First they had the Ambys like everyone else, then it was the 118NE I think & then the OHCs, now the CIVIC or Corolla.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

First they had the Ambys like everyone else, then it was the 118NE I think & then the OHCs, now the CIVIC or Corolla.

Of course, as I said, they should be provided with cars. India is a poor country, but one of the largest economies in the world. The Civic/Corolla should satisfy them for some years. The way the cars are upgraded, perhaps a Merc/BMW/Lexus in a few years??

[vineethvazhayil]

caught a glimpse of one of the G board Altis's today on Peters road, and driven as rash as any government vehicle!

[Mpower]

I heard that KEB officiers are being given Chevy Captivas in Bangalore.

[f450]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@f450, I don't know your salary. And I am wondering how something that my company insists is very confidential ie. my salary, is known to you.

Anyway, what do you think these guys earn, since you seem to be knowledgeable about their salaries ? BTW, yesterday's paper had an item about a pay raise for judges (SC and HC) which IIRC was around 200%. In these times, maintaining status-quo in salary itself is a big deal for most people and here we are talking of 200%. I am sure they can afford cars like others.

And whatever gave you the idea that not giving them perks will corrupt them or vice-versa ? Infact one of the posts here was hinting about how this car thing itself is a kind of appeasement, if we can call it that.

You get my point about the salaries, don't you? Traditionally, Government employees get paid a lot less than their Corporate counterparts. (Except judges who have no Corporate counterparts).
To compensate for lower salaries, they get perks and privileges like better interest rates, free housing etc. depending on what position they're in.

Judges are seldom in a position to buy themselves cars. I think they essentially bracket under middle class. Not upper middle, just middle. And even if they are, what's the point of being an honest judge if you don't get any privileges, right?

Regarding your last para, here's an example: If a Government employee gets a monthly salary of Rs. 5000, and he is expected to pay rent, feed family etc. within that, isn't he more prone to want to take money off you than someone whose rent is paid for? With perks, corruption is only greed. Without perks, corruption almost becomes a necessity.

[f450]

On a separate note, even Ministers are offered between Esteems and Corollas and nothing more.

And cmon guys, when lawyers themselves are roaming around in Mercs, the least judges can get is a 10L car. 10L isn't as high even..it's not like they're getting a Merc with low fuel economy etc.

[SkyWalker]

@ff450 - lawyers are getting Mercs by paying *the* money they own - not on taxpayers. that's not the right comparison.

[f450]

Originally Posted by SkyWalker

@ff450 - lawyers are getting Mercs by paying *the* money they own - not on taxpayers. that's not the right comparison.

I know, that's not what I meant. In terms of hierarchy, a judge is higher than a lawyer. I meant it that way.

[supremeBaleno]

If you go by hierarchy, the President of India comes at the top of the heap. But as we all know kids out of B-school or even IT guys would be earning much more than him. And not just for India, this applies to the US president also, who is supposedly the most powerful guy in the world.

Originally Posted by f450

Judges are seldom in a position to buy themselves cars. I think they essentially bracket under middle class. Not upper middle, just middle. And even if they are, what's the point of being an honest judge if you don't get any privileges, right?

I find it hard to believe that a judge cannot buy a car at they salary they earn. And let us not please go into the middle class thing - almost everyone claims to be middle-class and the boundaries are too blurred anyway. Point of being a honest judge ? To discharge his/her duties which come with the job. And if he/she thinks it is too much to do, maybe they can quit and join the corporate world, earn more and buy whatever car they want.

Originally Posted by f450

With perks, corruption is only greed. Without perks, corruption almost becomes a necessity.

Too simplistic a view. And even if we think there is a case here, maybe we should start with the poorly paid cops rather than judges. If as a taxpayer, I constantly need to think about how much more we should be paying the judges or what better car to upgrade them to, just so that they don't stray, that is a pretty sorry state of affairs.

@e_l, no issues with them getting an official car. But like vasudeva pointed out, pretty soon the taxpayer would need to foot the bill for a Merc each for all these judges, to ensure that they stay uncorrupted. More than meeting transportation needs, it looks like they are concerned with snob value - City, Civic, Accord and so on.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@e_l, no issues with them getting an official car. But like vasudeva pointed out, pretty soon the taxpayer would need to foot the bill for a Merc each for all these judges, to ensure that they stay uncorrupted. More than meeting transportation needs, it looks like they are concerned with snob value - City, Civic, Accord and so on.

If at the time the Judges are given Mercs/Lexus, we would have upgraded from our C segments to D segments, why not ?

Don't forget that he is also a taxpayer just like you & me.