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Old 18th April 2010, 13:49   #1
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Default Fake CNG Components In Market

My first car was a carburetor based car in which i fitted Tomasettio Achille Argentina CNG kit .
However i recently got a CNG kit fitted in the other car which is MPFI and i oped for Tomasetto Achille Italy kit with Lamda & Emulator & Advancer.

The shocker is everywhere in Delhi people are being sold these Toamsetto Achille made in Italy Timing Advancer & Lamda systems when the parent company in Italy is not even into manufacturing this stuff and was confirmend by them when i called them up .

So i traced the Tomasetto Italy indian office in Mumbai .My impression and outcome of talking to indian fellow is that they are doing a stickering job and selling the stuff illegaly using the goodwill of the brand.

Now i have decided to import the stuff directly from Argentina .

How the fake one looks can be seen in the attached pictures.

So folks beware this practice is rampant across delhi where i cheked out .
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 18th April 2010 at 13:53.
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Old 18th April 2010, 15:12   #2
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Their website states that they make CNG pressure reducers.

My friend has this kit in his car - he would be shocked to know about this.
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Old 18th April 2010, 16:14   #3
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Many distributors and bulk importers of these kits take up to stickering. The thing is that the kit manufacturer only manufactures the critical components, like the reducer, certain valves, etc. Rest is made by Indian companies and either procured by the kit manufacturer and then rebranded, which is good or the better option, the other is that which is occasionally done is by distributors / resellers who do illegal rebranding / stickering...

When I purchased my CNG kit of Lovato for my Alto, my fitter clearly stated that the emulator was of a local company but ARAI certified since Lovato does not make emulators. He said the distributor was ready to provide one but it would be a stickering job. My installer was very honest and upfront to make this admission and only after that did I finally go with him for his transparency.

My personal advice is to ensure the non-critical parts are at the very minimum ARAI certified, else you can end up in a big mess.
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Old 18th April 2010, 18:26   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS View Post
When I purchased my CNG kit of Lovato for my Alto, my fitter clearly stated that the emulator was of a local company but ARAI certified since Lovato does not make emulators.
Same thing for me. The guy said that the kit would be original (which looking at the pics , it is) but he clearly stated that all other parts will be approved.

BTW where are you getting the approved parts from and how much are they costing you?
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Old 18th April 2010, 21:48   #5
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that is shocking;there is a growing feeling here that there are a lot of spurious components making their way into Landi Renzo kits and hence people are trusing Tomasetto ; but this is a revelation.
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Old 19th April 2010, 00:38   #6
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Guys for Info I found only Landi Renzo & Tomasetto argentina make complete kits .
But what i am sure of is we are rarely getting genuine stuff apart from the CNG reducers.

And even the goverment / RTO guys are hand in gloves with distributors/ Retailers as how can they pass something that is fake .I mean how can they submit bills for fake components and RTO guys pass it.

Meanwhile i have decided to import the kit myself from Argentina for which i have sent a mail to them seeking as to how or an address from them where i can be assured i will get their genuine stuff.
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Old 19th April 2010, 02:23   #7
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Unhappy Facing the same issue !!

I have been facing this issue as well, most components are either fake / duplicate or are cheap chinese imports.

I have seen these two boxes (Advancer + Emulator) as posted by Trust_In_Thrust in a Hyundai Santro (Installed by an Independent RTO Approved Installer) & a Maruti Suzuki SX4 (Installed by MASS)

I plan to get my Maruti Suzuki Ritz LXI converted to CNG, the Ritz would be the 5th CNG powered vehicle in my family & I have never faced this issue in the past. Maybe because all the kits installed before this one costed above 40K.

But now back to the dishonest installers. Even the chap at MASS was changing his statements.

At first the MASS chap told me that all the components i.e. Lambda, Emulator, Timing Advancer would be of the same brand as the kit i.e. BRC or Tesmon but I had been researching on the internet as well as using the services of Just Dial to the fullest to get as much information about CNG kits, conversion systems, accessories & components, etc. After I asked him specific questions about each of these products the chap told me that the advancer would be a locally produced one and that the Lambda would be of BRC.

Once I got to know all of the above I again searched on the internet and used Just Dial to get the phone numbers of CNG dealers / Installers. As of now & based on what I was able to find out, there is currently only one company which offers its own CNG Reducer + Lambda + Emulator + Timing Advancer.

This company is known as Best Prins and has an office in NCR itself, the details are as follows:


BEST PRINS EcoTech (P) Ltd.
Delhi Jaipur Highway, 38KM Stone,
Behrampur Road, Khandsa,
GURGAON (Haryana) - 122001
INDIA

Tel. : +91 124 2372736, 2372737, 2372987
Fax : +91 124 2372204

E-mail: contact@bestprins.com
web: BEST PRINS EcoTech (P) Ltd.
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Old 19th April 2010, 03:04   #8
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Not only CNG kits even a lot of other stuff in grey market is fake. Some years back i was shocked to see the same HID xenon conversion kits labelled as Bosch and Siemens in Karol Bagh, all the components looked exactly same but the labelling, the stickers and labels were of good quality and looked like the originals.
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Old 19th April 2010, 18:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
Guys for Info I found only Landi Renzo & Tomasetto argentina make complete kits .
But what i am sure of is we are rarely getting genuine stuff apart from the CNG reducers.

And even the goverment / RTO guys are hand in gloves with distributors/ Retailers as how can they pass something that is fake .I mean how can they submit bills for fake components and RTO guys pass it.

Meanwhile i have decided to import the kit myself from Argentina for which i have sent a mail to them seeking as to how or an address from them where i can be assured i will get their genuine stuff.


Have the guys from the Argentina office responded ??

And is Tomasetto Italy different from Tomestto Argentina ??
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Old 19th April 2010, 18:54   #10
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Ok guys Italians & Argentina guys have responded .

I will post my conversation with TA, Argentina first:

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 19th April 2010 at 19:09.
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Old 19th April 2010, 20:28   #11
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tojpiccoli@ta.com.ar
ccjpalermo@ta.com.ar
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 12:33 AM
subjectInformation Soughtmailed-bygmail.com
hide details 12:33 AM (19 hours ago)


Respected Sir,

I kindly request yourself to give me an address of your retailer in New Delhi,India from where i can buy your genuine XLP , Timing Advancer , Cable to connect these to my laptop. Or can i buy it directly from you using a credit card and you can ship it here by Fed Ex.

I tried in many places but there are so many fakes here as you will see in the attached pics which are also using XLP name along with Tomasetto Achille brand name .

I wish you guys had a company owned outlet as people here are fooling customers here based on goodwill of your brand.








Regards
Amit Nain

to:mramitkumarnain@gmail.com
cc:Javier Piccoli <jpiccoli@ta.com.ar>
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:41 PMsubjectRE: Information Sought
hide details 6:41 PM (1 hour ago)

Dear Amit Nain,
We hope you be fine. [
Thanks for the photos and the correspondent information that you have provided.
Kindly note that In order to buy our XLP you should contact our distributor in New Delhi:

MEDICAL ENGINEER pvt.ltd.
B-69/2, Wazirpur Indl. Area, Delhi-110 052.
Ph.: 27376013, 27372818, 27374750, 42474918[/SIZE][/FONT]
Fax: 91-011-27377530, Mobile: 9312214517.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Grams: Lifesaver, Delhi – 110 052[/SIZE][/FONT]
E-mail: meipl@bol.net.in
Medicalengineer@tradeindia.com
cngcar@yahoo.com

Please let us know in case you need any kind of support.
Best Regards,
Manuel Marengo
from[COLOR=#00681C]AMIT KUMAR NAIN[/COLOR] <mramitkumarnain@gmail.com>toManuel Marengo <mmarengo@ta.com.ar>
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:52 PMsubjectRe: Information Soughtmailed-bygmail.com
hide details 6:52 PM (1 hour ago)

Respected Sir,

I am sorry to say but majority of the phone numbers did not respond.
There was lady by the name of Ms Kamlesh who finally picked up .
But she said that she will not sell anything i should go to a retailer .
The irony is all the retailers i contacted do not have and cannot source the XLP to Laptop cable .

Please give me a pin out diagram if possible .
I will make the adapter cable myself since i do not have a source to buy it .

Thanks & Regards
Amit Nain- Show quoted text -

toAMIT KUMAR NAIN <mramitkumarnain@gmail.com>
ccJavier Piccoli <jpiccoli@ta.com.ar>
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 8:41 PMsubjectRE: Information Sought
hide details 8:41 PM (0 minutes ago)

Dear Amit,
Kindly note that it will not be useful for you to get the pin number, you need other kind of support.
So lets do the following please provide us your telephone number and we will communicate with the distributor and ask them to help you.
Regards,
Verdana]Manuel Marengo
Commercial Department

toManuel Marengo <mmarengo@ta.com.ar>
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 8:21 PMsubjectRe: Information Soughtmailed-bygmail.com
hide details 8:21 PM (6 minutes ago)

Respected Sir,

Thanks for the support.
My phone number is **********
I am looking for the XLP mini , The communication cable , the MAP based timing advancer.-

Thanks & Regards
Amit Nain

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 19th April 2010 at 20:34.
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Old 19th April 2010, 20:39   #12
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THIS IS WHAT I HAVE FROM ITALY :

totech@tomasetto.com
bccinfo@tomasetto.com
dateFri, Apr 16, 2010 at 4:12 AMsubjectTechnical Information Soughtmailed-bygmail.com
hide details Apr 16 (4 days ago)

Respected Sir/Madam,

This is Amit from India .I have recently purchased your CNG Kit here which includes the reducer lamda system (Made in Italy) , Timing Advancer .However i am unable to get hold of a installation manual and PC program to manage the hardware.

I kindly request yourself to help me with the same .

Looking forward for an early response.

Thanks & Regards
Amit Nain


tomramitkumarnain@gmail.com
ccinfo@tomasetto.com
dateFri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:04 PMsubjectRif: Technical Information Sought
hide details Apr 16 (3 days ago)


Dear Mr. Amit
from Italy we can not help you . You must go to the factory that sold the kit .
best regards

Dario Stefani
Technical Department

totech@tomasetto.com
dateSat, Apr 17, 2010 at 10:19 AMsubjectRe: Technical Information Soughtmailed-bygmail.com
hide details Apr 17 (3 days ago)

Respected Sir,

Could you please clarify whether the products shown in the attached images the timing advancer and lamda system are your own or is it a copyright issue (Someone rebranding there products and selling it under the name Tomasetto Achille - Made In Italy, with your logo ) .

Also i did contact Tomasetto Argentina and they have replied that these are not there products.

This can very well an attempt to malign the image of Tomasetto Italy in India.

Looking forward for a early response.

Thanks & Regards
Amit Nain




[/COLOR]On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:04 PM, <tech@tomasetto.com> wrote:

- Show quoted text -]AMIT KUMAR NAIN <mramitkumarnain@gmail.com> 16/04/2010 00.42

tech@tomasetto.comTechnical Information Sought
Respected Sir/Madam,


5 attachmentsDownload all attachments View all images
DSC01056 (Medium).JPG
50K View Download DSC01052 (Medium).JPG
67K View Download DSC01053 (Medium).JPG
89K View Download DSC01054 (Medium).JPG
54K View Download DSC01055 (Medium).JPG
38K

tomramitkumarnain@gmail.com
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:04 PMsubjectRif: Very Important Fwd: Technical Information Sought/ Fraud in India using your name illegaly
hide details 6:04 PM (2 hours ago)

Dear Mr. Nain,
thank you very much for the information, this is very important for us to stop the Indian duplicators which are using our name illegally. For your reference, please, consider that our company neither produces nor supplies electronic components, but only mechanical components (for more information, please, visit our web-site www.tomasetto.com).
I ask you to be so kind to contact our subsidiary in India, at the following address, and report to them about all other useful information in order to coordinate our efforts to try to detain these duplicators
TOMASETTO ACHILLE India Pvt. Ltd.Biwandi - Dist. THANE
India B-1 Gala No.2, 1st floor, Pritesh Complex
Anjur Phata, Dapoda Road,
IN-421302 Bhiwandi, dist. Thane
India(0091) 2522312877
info@tomasettoindia.com
www.tomasettoindia.com

On behalf of our company, I thank you very much for your support
Best regards

Sales ManagerCiscato C.
Tomasetto Achille S.p.A.
Castegnero (VI) - ITALY
Tel.: +39-0444.638326 - Fax: +39-0444.639367
info@tomasetto.com - www.tomasetto.com


toinfo@tomasetto.com
dateMon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:34 PMsubjectRe: Very Important Fwd: Technical Information Sought/ Fraud in India using your name illegalymailed-bygmail.com
hide details 6:34 PM (2 hours ago)

Respected Sir,
Kind Attention : [FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Ciscato C. ([/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Sales Manager[/SIZE][/FONT] )
Subject : Your dealer is a conspirator in this .

With due regards i have already contacted your Indian agent around 2 days back based at Mumbai , India
Mr Nikunj : Mobile Number 09867244640
Mr Rajeev : Mobile Number 09323613621
My conversation went like this:
I called Rajeev first
Me : Hi This is Amit from New Delhi .
Rajeev : Hi
Me: Sir are you guys selling TA, Made in Italy Advancers , Lamda systems .
Rajeev : Yes
Me : But sir the parent company has not listed these products on the website .
Rajeev : What issues are you facing? You can contact our distributor in Delhi .
His name is Mr Pankaj Taneja Mobile Number 09811108798
Me : Ok .How will that help me.
Rajeev :He will give you a new item .Also we have an arrangemnt wherein we do send out complete kit with the Lamda & Advancers so customers do not face any problems!
Me : Ok please apprise him of the situation and i will call you in five minutes.
Rajeev : OK

After 5 minutes i call Rajeev ,
Me: Hi is this rajeev ?
No This is Nikunj .
Me : Ok can i talk to Rajeev
Nikunj : No .What is the problem.
Me : Well i happenned to buy fake / duplicate parts of brand Tomasetto Achille , Made in Italy which you are representing in India .
Nikunj : So what how can we take care of every nook and corner of India for duplicay.
Me : Well it is the capital of India and not a corner .
Nikunj : What is the problem you are facing ?
Me : Sir i paid for genuine materials but what i get is fake stuff .There are no ports for programming .
Nikunj : But ports are there ?
Me : (I catch him here .If TA is not manufacturing anything how in the world he knew ports are provided for communication .)Anyways i say i mean only in the Lamda it is provided not in the advancer .
Nikunj : Yes that is true .Then he realizes his mistakes and says do not bother us and we have nothing to do with this .
Me : I have already talked to TA , Italy on phone and email .
Nikunj : So what .
Me : Sir i am talking to you only because the brand name is being used illegally and customers are being fooled and once they buy these products which have poor quality the brand name is going for a toss .
Nikunj : Why are you bothering so much . Hangs Up.


5 Minutes Later:
Nikunj : Calls me up .
Me : Yes .
Nikunj : Please forward a letter saying the facts that there are fakes floating around and we will take action.
Me ; He sends me a SMS with the address of office in Bhiwandi ,Mumbai , Maharastra, India.

To me it is very well clear that your dealers / distributors are hand in gloves in this fake business as these components are available throughout India as you can see in this thread .
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/79825-fake-cng-components-market.html



Thanks & Regards
[COLOR=#888888] Amit Nain[/COLOR]

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 19th April 2010 at 20:49.
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Old 19th April 2010, 22:48   #13
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Ops this is a scary and dangerous practice, Gaseous fuel if not handled properly are potential bombs and can be lethal.

Law enforcement agencies should probe such irregularities & duplication of such safety related components. Wondering why cant every manufacturer give a CNG/LPG option as a standard factory fitted / option pack.
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Old 21st April 2010, 01:14   #14
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I met an authorised CNG installer today and told him quite frankly that I was aware of the fact that fakes have been making rounds of the market. I also told him that I needed a kit for my car and wanted all the genuine stuff.
I asked him whether he could provide me with it and if so, how do I get to know that the components are genuine and not some fake rip off!!

To the above question he gave quite a straight forward answer.
He told me that in the quest to earn the maximum and reduce the costs to really really low levels a lot of installers resort to these cheap and unsafe practices.
As per this fellow an all genuine kit today would still be in the range of 45-50K depending upon the brand you go in for.

He also told me that most of these fake components are made in Faridabad (Haryana, India) and not in China as opposed to popular belief.
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Old 22nd April 2010, 09:04   #15
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This is the final reply from Italians :
[COLOR=#790619]info@tomasetto.com[/COLOR]tomramitkumarnain@gmail.com
dateTue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:30 PMsubjectRif: Re: Very Important Fwd: Technical Information Sought/ Fraud in India using your name illegaly
hide details Apr 20 (1 day ago)


Dear Mr. Amit,
thank you very much for your detailed report.
We know that our Indian partner, through another company, is a dealer of electronic components and that, in the past, he used our trade mark to distribute these item, but form the evidences we have, it is difficult to say whether they are conspirating against us or not.
In this specific situation, in my opinion, the problem is due to the fact that these guys, whoever they are, are using our name combined with the writing "made in Italy", which is very unfair.[/SIZE][/FONT]
Anyway, once again, I thank you for your e-mail and I will do my best to try to clarify this matter[/SIZE][/FONT]
I remain

Sales Manager
Ciscato C.
Tomasetto Achille S.p.A.
Castegnero (VI) - ITALY
Tel.: +39-0444.638326 - Fax: +39-0444.639367
info@tomasetto.com - www.tomasetto.com

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 22nd April 2010 at 09:06.
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