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Old 13th May 2010, 12:54   #91
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Please take this fact into consideration that MUL has its presence in tier II and tier III cities too where others have a very slim/no presence which has helped in sales no.

but this also points out to a fact that dud cars like Estilo haven't taken off despite the hallowed MS badge

^would love to see how the Getz D/i20 fared/fares against a Swift D on a twisty road/track as anyone can press the pedal and shoot ahead,

OT-Ritz is selling because of the fun-tastic petrol engine
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:56   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Hyundai scrapped their ever so good Getz CRDi and got the wonderful i20, for what reason. They were people oriented and wanted to give better , comfortable cars to the Indian family. And its doing damn well today.

The Indica diesel sold better, why did Tata's get the Vista and the Vista Drivetech4. Because, they understood the needs of an average Indian family.
Tata introduced Drivetech4 because they understood the needs of an average Indian family? No man, it is just because of the new BS-IV norms only. Otherwise, why didn't they introduce it earlier, before this norm came active?

And Hyundai stopped Getz because they were people oriented and wanted to give better , comfortable cars to the Indian family? No man, as I said earlier, Getz was not selling at all. Otherwise, why they are not stopping the crappy (compared to Getz) Santro?

Last edited by Eddy : 13th May 2010 at 13:06. Reason: Removing off topic content
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:01   #93
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Moderators Note: Please keep the discussion healthy. Personal attacks and off topic posts are not allowed.
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:02   #94
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Value for money = Figo
Performance, looks, quality and everything else = i20 CRDI.

The swift is simply outclassed by these two.
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:41   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I have driven both the Swift-D (TD car) and the Punto-D (friend's car) for a few kms, and the Punto sucks in comparison to the Swift in driving. I am talking "normal driving". You could blame the extra flab on the Punto for that and I think that could mostly be the reason too, but since when did being lean become a bad thing ? But it sure beats the Swift in features - no doubt about that.
This is a surprising statement. Care to explain what made you think Punto sucks in driving compared to Swift? Punto is a driver's joy. And, what all kinds of driving can me termed under 'normal driving'?

Hope this question is not OT because we are discussing why there is no Swift beater in many aspects.

Last edited by clevermax : 13th May 2010 at 13:43.
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:52   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
This is a surprising statement. Care to explain what made you think Punto sucks in driving compared to Swift? Punto is a driver's joy. And, what all kinds of driving can me termed under 'normal driving'?

Hope this question is not OT because we are discussing why there is no Swift beater in many aspects.
Maybe he meant that for in-city driving. No doubt that Punto has the best highway manners!
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:57   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Value for money = Figo
Performance, looks, quality and everything else = i20 CRDI.

The swift is simply outclassed by these two.

Cannot really agree with that. The kind of handling and dynamics the Swift offers cannot be matched by either. I have not driven Figo for more than 15kms at a stretch, but from the limited experience, i feel so.

To me, every car had good and bad qualities. If it is pure driving pleasure that I want, I might Still buy the Swift. Punto has good dynamics, but feels really slower than it actually is. At high speeds, Punto may be great. But how many will drive above 100 or 120 for a long period of time on our highways ?? Only a few, and I am sure they WILL buy Punto.

If a BIG spacious hatch is what I want, I would buy the Figo or Vista. (Preferably Figo for its respectable handling compared to Vista)

i20 CRDi is too pricey and will not sell as well as the Swift in this highly price sensitive segment. For an average salary earning man, it will still be the Swift. Moreover, i20 does not handle like the Swift does.

Last edited by DieselAddikt : 13th May 2010 at 14:03.
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Old 13th May 2010, 13:58   #98
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"Normal" in the sense how one would normally drive - without trying to race through the gears. In both cases, there were 4-5 people in the cars and normal city traffic and to me it felt like the Punto lacked punch (felt laborious) compared to Swift. Ofcourse, both drives were pretty short (few kms) and not long enough to get to a firm conclusion.
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:04   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Quite frankly I have never understood how you have picked up one line from the entire post that was in general longer than most of the posts in the entire thread. Please go through the post carefully & you will see that I have criticised Maruti Suzuki like anything with proper rationale.
Mention not I have read your entire post and my response is to the general belief that Maruti's are value for money and not just YOU. I am very surprise how people simply loose it without ever reading through the post and its intent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
I agree that Maruti's sales are all about perception that these cars have good FE when a Maruti would give FE same as that of the competitors with better performance, space & features & almost equal reliability (Honda excluded). But the answer lies in their A.S.S. network which is bigger than any other competitors.
1) Ritz and Swift arent as efficient as the Beat.
2) SX4 isnt the most fuel efficient midsizer around and neither is the best performing.
3) Wagon-R and Santro almost have the same efficiency with the latter having better refinement all around and is as reliable if not more.

If you read above, I have covered almost all their cars which bring them the volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Swift Diesel also gained because of inept competition (Tata, who else existed with a Diesel hatch) which has helped to keep the sales in full momemtun because of word of mouth. BTW most of the people I know owned a Maruti car for long have, not surprisingly, upgraded to non-Maruti cars & are more happy with their decisions.
Agreed. Swift diesel with the 1.3 MJD from Fiat was a master stroke even if it was expensive and still is. The first mover in the market always has an advantage.
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:05   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Perceptions cannot help sustain any company for 25 years and more. Perceptions get broken in a matter of time.
Not 100% true IMO. Lets think about Estilo selling @ 5K+ per month and Spark selling atleast 2K less compared month wise. With 3 year no maintenance plan, Spark is much better a deal for 1st time buyers but in real its the perception that Estilo being a Maruti will be low to maintain hence the sales figures!!
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:06   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
Value for money = Figo
Performance, looks, quality and everything else = i20 CRDI.

The swift is simply outclassed by these two.
Uh oh.. not the i20 for sure with that stupid steering. I can't even keep me cool properly.. blame the AC here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIV3R View Post
Maybe he meant that for in-city driving. No doubt that Punto has the best highway manners!
In city the Swift would be better car if you want to play point and squirt but if drive ability is what you are after it sort of disappoints.

Last edited by Eddy : 13th May 2010 at 15:40. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:18   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead
Not 100% true IMO. Lets think about Estilo selling @ 5K+ per month and Spark selling atleast 2K less compared month wise. With 3 year no maintenance plan, Spark is much better a deal for 1st time buyers but in real its the perception that Estilo being a Maruti will be low to maintain hence the sales figures!!
BTW, wondered why GM had to offer the 3-year maintenance plan in the first place ? The abysmal maintenance costs of their Opel range. And that is no perception.

Do agree that the Spark is a nice car and a good deal. Especially when compared to the previous Estilo. But with the changes in looks (subtle maybe, but does make the car palatable) and the K-series engine, the Estilo is back in the reckoning, which must be reflecting in the 5K sales (though still low by Maruti's small-car sales figures).
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:23   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I thought I started off by mentioning the only competition I could see - Figo. Maybe you overlooked that part.

Perceptions cannot help sustain any company for 25 years and more. Perceptions get broken in a matter of time. Let me give you some examples of what you call perception - all figures are from owners I know personally.

Accent : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 10kmpl
Baleno : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 12kmpl (a clear 20% better FE)

Getz-1.3 : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 10kmpl
Swift-1.3 : Chennai city FE with 100% AC - 12kmpl // the 1.2 is even more FE

And among all the cars sporting the Fiat-MJD, the Swift has the best FE.

Ofcourse they would. Because for someone who has used a Alto/Swift etc, what is the upgrade option available in Suzuki ? Only the SX4. So whats so surprising about them going for other options like Toyota/Honda/Skoda whatever.
If I have to upgrade from my Baleno, my options are all non-Maruti - that does not say anything about Suzuki except that they dont have options in upper-C segment and higher.
supremeBaleno for a major part of the 25 years Maruti had no competition. Most of the competition that they have in India is equivalent or growing manufacturers for whom India is not as important as US of European markets (Hyundai & Ford included), where Suzuki is no match to them.

Regarding the FE figures, one of my previous bosses had an Accent which on C.R Park to Okhla-III (~ 5kms run) run would give him 12 kmpl (with 100% AC) normally.

With MJD swift has the best FE because of low weight & slim tyres.

I do not have any Getz owner in my circle, but couple of petrol Palio owners who used to get >11 kmpl in city (again with 100% AC).

My brother had a colleague who had a Zen & then changed to Santro Xing & was surprised by the better quality of interiors. Same happened with my cousin who had a M800 previously. Yes I have few family friends who go for Marutis back-to-back because in their native only MASS exist nearby, all others are at least 50 kms. Another family friend has opted for SX4 & later suggested his brother Fiesta.. what can I say, when he says that overall the car is fine but the bumper can be poked with one finger only.

You need to read both of my post where I have mentioned that isn't any good competition to Swift Diesel.

I am still wondering why we all opt to analyse parts of a post & not the whole & the crux thereof. I bet this could definitely sort many confusions & misunderstandings.
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:28   #104
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OT: when I read that thread title for the first time, I mistook it for a competition to find-India's biggest beater, that is the swift diesel that has clocked the highest odometer and still runs string ad that some kind of award is kept for it.
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Old 13th May 2010, 14:30   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP
I am still wondering why we all opt to analyse parts of a post & not the whole & the crux thereof.
You kept mentioning "perceptions", which was why the response that perceptions can take you only so far.

Maybe when Maruti started off here, there was no competition, but atleast for last 10 years or more there is enough competition from Ford, Hyundai, Honda, GM etc in most of its range except the M800/Alto.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 13th May 2010 at 14:31.
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