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Old 13th November 2010, 02:25   #46
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I don't know what the minister is to achieve targetting brand which not even 1% of the population is going to use.
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Old 13th November 2010, 07:06   #47
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Carbon footprint or no carbon footprint - differential tax structure should be placed on luxury diesel cars.
Why should I (while driving a small petrol car) pay more to keep up the subsidy on diesel while my VP drives a 5 series diesel bimmer? Why does he deserve the subsidy on his fuel?
As it is impossible to do away with subsidized diesel, one who owns a diesel car which is not a agricultural/farm/transport vehicle should pay extra (tiered according to vehicle price or ARAI FE number) tax to offset the (illogically) preferential diesel price he/she is about to enjoy.
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Old 13th November 2010, 08:22   #48
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I am sure, your boss is already paying higher taxes compared to you. He is also paying a big import duty on his diesel guzzling car and still getting the same roads and facilities which you get. I am also sure his car's after treatment is much better than your car, so the emission is surely not much more than yours.
Its not about why he should get subsidy or not. For honorable minister it should matter more how can he reduce the emissions. Which can only happen if he focuses more on vehicles which sell in larger numbers and create more pollution. The three wheelers, which carry people and material make a lot more pollution than these cars.
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Old 13th November 2010, 08:35   #49
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With all due respect to the Hon'ble minister, there are some aspects of this outburst that I would like to point out:
  1. The policy of selling diesel at subsidised rates is one that the Government follows. It's not as if any of the auto manufacturers lobbied them to do it. And nothing prevents them from introducing price discrimination between commercial vehicles & privately owned ones. So the need of the hour is to review your own policies, not attack auto manufacturers.
  2. One needs to be discreet while naming names. This is a Marketing disaster for BMW and poor Honda (who don't even sell diesel vehicles in India). You cannot hope to attract big business on one hand and gain brownie points with the electorate by bashing them on the other.
  3. Carbon footprint of gas guzzlers is a real issue. It cannot be reduced to soundbytes or sensationalised by the idiots on daytime news channels. The minister should probably have expressed himself better.
  4. Charity begins at home. Apart from the super-rich, the biggest users of gas guzzlers are ministers and bureaucrats. A directive to use only fuel-efficient vehicles to all Government departments would have gone down better than this seemingly irrational outburst against "SUVs and BMWs".
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Old 13th November 2010, 09:58   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhaust_Note View Post
I do 100% agree that rules should be made to ensure that the diesel subsidy reaches only to the ones that are meant for.
Obviously, the minister thinks that 90% of the subsidised Kerosene being used for diesel adulteration is non-polluting and the subsidy is going to the correct place.

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
One needs to be discreet while naming names. This is a Marketing disaster for BMW and poor Honda (who don't even sell diesel vehicles in India). You cannot hope to attract big business on one hand and gain brownie points with the electorate by bashing them on the other.

.....

Charity begins at home. Apart from the super-rich, the biggest users of gas guzzlers are ministers and bureaucrats. A directive to use only fuel-efficient vehicles to all Government departments would have gone down better than this seemingly irrational outburst against "SUVs and BMWs".
Agreed. His ignorance is obvious when he named Honda who do not sell any diesels at the moment.

Agree about the netas and babus. Let me add that a 'qafila' of 30 vehicles (mostly SUVs) and blocking traffic for hours helps control pollution in his view.

Also, the statement re electric cars is half baked - presumaby he is not aware of hybrids, which are far more fuel efficient.

I am totally disappointed by him and one ex-minister M-SA who is totally negativistic as of now. I thought they were both intelligent people.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:00   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
With all due respect to the Hon'ble minister, there are some aspects of this outburst that I would like to point out:
  1. One needs to be discreet while naming names. This is a Marketing disaster for BMW and poor Honda (who don't even sell diesel vehicles in India). You cannot hope to attract big business on one hand and gain brownie points with the electorate by bashing them on the other.
  2. Charity begins at home. Apart from the super-rich, the biggest users of gas guzzlers are ministers and bureaucrats.
I fully agree with above two points. Minister is not expected to make headline grabbing statements, just like that. Most of the politician and thier supporters use the SUV's in large numbers.

Most of the Vehicle manufacturers makes Diesel vehicles, so why target only BMW's.

There are so many envoirnmental issues, which needs to be tackled first.

Limiting benifit of Diesel subsidy to only certain section of society requires lot of planning, political will, specially within ruling party itself.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:10   #52
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Originally Posted by akaush View Post
I am sure, your boss is already paying higher taxes compared to you. He is also paying a big import duty on his diesel guzzling car and still getting the same roads and facilities which you get. I am also sure his car's after treatment is much better than your car, so the emission is surely not much more than yours.
Its not about why he should get subsidy or not. For honorable minister it should matter more how can he reduce the emissions. Which can only happen if he focuses more on vehicles which sell in larger numbers and create more pollution. The three wheelers, which carry people and material make a lot more pollution than these cars.
I agree with you on concentrating on three wheelers. But why let go the expensive vehicles which have the lowest FE. The minister is showing some forward thinking by trying to resolve the problem in it's initial stages before it gets too big. Is that a crime? The import duty has nothing to do with the FE. The topic here is FE standards not import duty or infrastructure tax.

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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
The policy of selling diesel at subsidised rates is one that the Government follows. It's not as if any of the auto manufacturers lobbied them to do it. And nothing prevents them from introducing price discrimination between commercial vehicles & privately owned ones. So the need of the hour is to review your own policies, not attack auto manufacturers.
Correct me if I am wrong here. There is a old rule in india which says diesel cannot be used for personal vehicles. I know this rule was in place when first indica was launched. Everytime government comes with a report for FE standards SIAM issues a statement opposing it. Why?

Last edited by airbender : 13th November 2010 at 11:12.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:12   #53
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Correct me if I am wrong here. There is a old rule in india which says diesel cannot be used for personal vehicles. I know this rule was in place when first indica was launched. Everytime government comes with a report for FE standards SIAM issues a statement opposing it. Why?
Am not sure what you mean. Thousands of people buy diesel-powered vehicles for personal use every month. Are you trying to say that these are all illegal?
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:17   #54
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Am not sure what you mean. Thousands of people buy diesel-powered vehicles for personal use every month. Are you trying to say that these are all illegal?
I am not sure if rule has changed but yes it used to be like that. Every diesel vehicle is registered as a non-personal vehicle(eg:taxi).
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:18   #55
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Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Am not sure what you mean. Thousands of people buy diesel-powered vehicles for personal use every month. Are you trying to say that these are all illegal?
+10 to that, and if that is illegal then all Govts including Center and state are doing this illegal activity by registering these vehicle and taking road tax. I also wish to know what vehicle Mr Ramesh has for his personal use and is he going to ask the PM to remove all 15 Tata Safaries for the cordon? If BMWs are not fuel efficient nor the safaries too.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:19   #56
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I am not sure if rule has changed but yes it used to be like that. Every diesel vehicle is registered as a non-personal vehicle(eg:taxi).
Every diesel variant launched these days has a personal registration option. Am not sure which era you are referring to here. Anyway that is neither here nor there. Let's get back on-topic.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:20   #57
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Are we 100% sure that Diesel is subsidized in India? As far as I know Diesel and Petrol almost cost the same ex-refinery, there is a differential excise treatment which makes Petrol more expensive. But a subsidy as in selling it below cost does not exist in case of Diesel. LPG and Kerosene are subsidized though.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:23   #58
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Originally Posted by airbender View Post
I am not sure if rule has changed but yes it used to be like that. Every diesel vehicle is registered as a non-personal vehicle(eg:taxi).
Fully disagree with you on this point, my car is a diesel vehicle and it is registered as personal vehicle and does not have a Taxi number plate too. And these go for all personal diesel vehicles.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:29   #59
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+10 to that, and if that is illegal then all Govts including Center and state are doing this illegal activity by registering these vehicle and taking road tax.
There is nothing government can do if the person registering the vehicle says it's for non-personal use. But they can check if that is followed which is not happening. Cooking gas(subsidised) connections are given for households but almost all restaurents use these connections.


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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
I also wish to know what vehicle Mr Ramesh has for his personal use and is he going to ask the PM to remove all 15 Tata Safaries for the cordon? If BMWs are not fuel efficient nor the safaries too.
Why are you contrating only on the BWM part? Why are some talking as if they are representing BMW? Concentrate on the original message which is FE standards. It does not matter if it is BMW, audi or Tata.
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Old 13th November 2010, 11:29   #60
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There is nothing illegal or wrong for people to buy diesel cars and for manufacturers to make them.
Its the Government's policy that is wrong. Hope they fix it.
Since this minister is from time to time critical of existing policies, he was merely stating the truth.

He said BMW, Merc and Honda are making use of it. He never said they are wrong in making using of the loophole

Last edited by srishiva : 13th November 2010 at 11:35.
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