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Old 1st November 2013, 13:16   #16
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by D'Artagnan View Post


According to the newspaper the Volvo bus caught fire after it hit a culvert. Doesnt the 80lakh bus have a fuel cut-off system? Couldn't that have prevented some damage at least?
I dont know whether these buses have fuel cutoffs or not, but I dont think it would have mattered here.

Fuel cutoff systems switch off the power to fuel pumps. But in this case what seems to have happened is that the fuel tank itself got hit, and somehow a spark from either from a wire which got cut or from some metal-metal contact, caused the fuel to ignite. Again though I am not sure, I think Volvo buses have polymer fuel tanks, just a fuel tank puncture too would not cause a fire. Fuel catching fire after an accident generally should not happen, except in really unlucky cases like this.
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Old 1st November 2013, 13:33   #17
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

My 2 cents.

For cars equipped with central locking mechanism, most present-gen. cars disable the locks when the airbags deploy. Even if the doors get jammed or the electrical systems fail to disable the locks, there might be an alternate method to get out of the car other than breaking the windshields/windows. Just check your manuals.

For Polo owners, you can use the tailgate/boot to get off the car by inserting a key in the slot and sliding it to the left. This opens the lock. Check it out yourself when you have some free time.

Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?-img_3111.jpg

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
TIP: In an emergency, remove the neck restraint (head rest) and use its metal rods to break the glass.
Nice! Never thought of that one before. Those SS rods in the head restraints are quite chunky. Pretty sure they will come in handy during such an emergency.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 1st November 2013 at 13:37.
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Old 1st November 2013, 13:39   #18
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I think Volvo buses have polymer fuel tanks, just a fuel tank puncture too would not cause a fire. Fuel catching fire after an accident generally should not happen, except in really unlucky cases like this.
This accident must be an exception in Volvo buses. Preventing the fuel tank to catch fire is a basic priority of every automotive manufacturer and Volvo is known for its extreme measures of safety. Newspapers report that there might have been flammable substances in the luggage compartment that caused the fire to spread. Surely there is more to be investigated, there have been many gruesome bus accidents but rarely have they caught fire, local buses which have been built cheaper plying from town to town have not caught fire even when the bus is totalled and has major casualty reported. A Volvo bus (stress on Volvo) that hit a culvert only (based on newspaper report) damaged its components, has caught fire and burnt down. Something is amiss!

Last edited by D'Artagnan : 1st November 2013 at 13:56.
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Old 1st November 2013, 14:21   #19
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I dont know whether these buses have fuel cutoffs or not, but I dont think it would have mattered here.

Fuel cutoff systems switch off the power to fuel pumps. But in this case what seems to have happened is that the fuel tank itself got hit, and somehow a spark from either from a wire which got cut or from some metal-metal contact, caused the fuel to ignite. Again though I am not sure, I think Volvo buses have polymer fuel tanks, just a fuel tank puncture too would not cause a fire. Fuel catching fire after an accident generally should not happen, except in really unlucky cases like this.
I think any metal or polymer fuel tanks; if hit at a speed of 140 kilometers per hour (which is what reports state the speed of the bus was) will be punctured. After that it just needs one isolated spark and that should be enough. I think this is what happened here.

With a puncture in the tank; fuel leaking out and jagged metal brushing against the road/culvert/other parts of the bus- there must have been a spark which caused the whole bus to ignite.
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Old 1st November 2013, 14:37   #20
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by D'Artagnan View Post
... fuel cut-off system? Couldn't that have prevented some damage at least?
No use if the tank explodes / ruptures, right? Fuel cut-off (not sure, but I think it is present in Volvo buses) only cuts off fuel going to the fuel pump feeding the common rail. Usually this is a command from the ABS system on frontal impact in cars.

In a Volvo bus, the fuel tanks are just aft of the front wheels, and the engine is at the rear.

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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post
... With a puncture in the tank; fuel leaking out and jagged metal brushing against the road/culvert/other parts of the bus- there must have been a spark which caused the whole bus to ignite.
Buses have diesel engines. Diesel is a low-volatility fuel. What you describe is not likely to happen with diesel.

Under the circumstances, the presence of highly volatile chemicals in luggage storage, which is near the fuel tanks, seems a distinct possibility.

Last edited by DerAlte : 1st November 2013 at 14:52.
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Old 1st November 2013, 14:58   #21
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
No use if the tank explodes / ruptures, right? Fuel cut-off (not sure, but I think it is present in Volvo buses) only cuts off fuel going to the fuel pump feeding the common rail. Usually this is a command from the ABS system on frontal impact in cars.

In a Volvo bus, the fuel tanks are just aft of the front wheels, and the engine is at the rear.
Actually these buses dont have one tank, but three tanks. One big 300L tank between the front wheels and 2 optional 150L tanks each behind the front wheels.

Of course in this bus there seems to have been an auxillary tank on the side which got punctured.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 11:55   #22
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

After reading this thread, I am finally beginning to think that the engineers at Volkswagen have a point. The doors on my Polo (and on other VW models too I am sure) CANNOT be locked from the inside. The central locking just locks it from the outside, and it does get deactivated in the case of an accident.

And for those worried about the safety of children, the doors at the back have a child lock. Kids shouldn't travel in the fron passenger seat anyway I guess...
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:20   #23
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by TheLizardKing View Post
After reading this thread, I am finally beginning to think that the engineers at Volkswagen have a point. The doors on my Polo (and on other VW models too I am sure) CANNOT be locked from the inside. The central locking just locks it from the outside, and it does get deactivated in the case of an accident.

And for those worried about the safety of children, the doors at the back have a child lock. Kids shouldn't travel in the fron passenger seat anyway I guess...
Just a clarification about the VW system. As I understand it, it has a button on the driver side door which locks or unlocks the doors on the inside.

If the vehicle is stationary, and I just pull on the handle will the door open even after the lock button has been pressed??

Also, in case of electronics issue, is there a mechanical way to override the door locks from the inside, other than exiting via the boot as shown above??
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Old 2nd November 2013, 12:50   #24
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
Just a clarification about the VW system. As I understand it, it has a button on the driver side door which locks or unlocks the doors on the inside.

If the vehicle is stationary, and I just pull on the handle will the door open even after the lock button has been pressed??

Also, in case of electronics issue, is there a mechanical way to override the door locks from the inside, other than exiting via the boot as shown above??
@julupani: The button on the driver side just locks/unlocks the doors from the outside, NEVER from the inside. You can try it in any VW car. So even in the case of an electronics issue, the car can ALWAYS be opened from the inside. This was also the explanation given by the workshop rep during delivery. I wasn't very convinced at that time and read up on it on various internet forums, before concluding that I will have to live with it. But like I said earlier, it may not be such a bad idea from a safety point of view...
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Old 2nd November 2013, 13:05   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLizardKing View Post
... The button on the driver side just locks/unlocks the doors from the outside, NEVER from the inside. ...
Huh? The button is inside, OK. And it can be operated only from outside??? What does one do when outside the car and windows are closed???
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Old 2nd November 2013, 19:48   #26
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

Hi Bhp'ians,

Sometime, Sophistication of technology coupled with Indian operating conditions is bane.
What we need is KISS based simple over-riding mechanical technology and not complicated electronics AI.

I personally do not recommend electric windows for various reasons including kids trying to play with system and behavior of system in accident situation.Surely the comfort of electric windows is always there. But then, better we prioritize safety over comforts.

Regarding window mechanism, Maruti WagonR F10D, which has central locking; but each of the door can be over-ridden manually; by lifting the pin and door opens;

and pin is not something which can be lifted upwards easily by small kids.
I sometimes, feel the Maruti System of Pins (old system) is much safer, since there is always mechanical over-ride.
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Old 2nd November 2013, 23:28   #27
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
TIP: In an emergency, remove the neck restraint (head rest) and use its metal rods to break the glass.

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Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
Nice! Never thought of that one before. Those SS rods in the head restraints are quite chunky. Pretty sure they will come in handy during such an emergency.
Great tip, indeed. The only problem is, many manufacturers are fitting head/neck restraints integrated to the seat, leaving no scope for metal rods. My i10 is one such example of this integrated neck/head rest.

If I am not wrong, there is nothing "removable" in the i10 cabin that is "capable" enough to smash open a window in the event of an emergency.

May be, I should store a half metre metal pipe in the cabin for this emergency, as well as to facilitate easier use of the jack (in case of a breakdown) or even as a security measure, in case of self-defence.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 00:15   #28
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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post

If I am not wrong, there is nothing "removable" in the i10 cabin that is "capable" enough to smash open a window in the event of an emergency.
.
Well, we do have the removable neck restraints in the rear seats. I think we can use them in emergencies.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 22:22   #29
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by misquitas View Post
If I am not wrong, there is nothing "removable" in the i10 cabin that is "capable" enough to smash open a window in the event of an emergency.
Apart from the below suggestion, I feel the seat-belt buckle is good enough to help in certain emergency situation. May be you can fling it towards the windows and it will give way.

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Well, we do have the removable neck restraints in the rear seats. I think we can use them in emergencies.
Anurag.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 22:58   #30
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Default Re: Electric locking & window mechanism. Boon or bane for Safety?

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Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
Well, we do have the removable neck restraints in the rear seats. I think we can use them in emergencies.
Unfortunately, the A-Star's rear headrests can't be removed without folding the seat first!

BTW, has anyone tried out any such products?

http://www.tankertruckparts.com/Esca...r-p/7000ts.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Seatbelt-Break.../dp/B002AMAXNA
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