[silverknight]

I took delivery of White TUV AMT T8 on 22nd October and been a happy customer with car and M&M's service despite some minor niggles.
But what happened yesterday was a catastrophic failure.

My car had 1060kms on odo and I was traveling to Mumbai from Pune. I just crossed 100kmph and was in the right most lane with fully loaded car.

Just as car crossed 100kmph mark, I experienced loss of power and car started decelerating. And to my horror AMT box did not downshift it was stuck in fifth gear. Somehow switching to manual mode I was able to get the car from right most lane to kerbside.

The instrument cluster had the "Engine!" checklamp on which I noticed once I was at the side of the road.
All the nightmares of any automatic transmission car owner had come true with ~1000kms on odo.

I called up RSA but after 45 mins I was informed they will take another 2 hours to reach there. M&M's customer care manager and local service center manager had been in constant touch. As it was going to take a while and I had to reach Mumbai at earliest I decided to restart the car and see if I can drive it on manual mode at least.

The engine checklamp was off now I could drive it. And same thing happened engine lost power and AMT did not downshift but kind of engine braked. I again noticed that even in manual mode AMT did not downshift (car is suppose to downshift even if it is in manual mode ) and I manually downshifted it.

On Sunday RSA took the vehicle to service centre. Yesterday, on Monday they worked on it and I got a call from Pune Area Customercare manager that they found and fixed the problem.

The reason for losing power was faulty Fuel Delivery Module which they have replaced. And have run various diagnostic tests and 45kms trial run which indicates that AMT and also the vehicle is perfectly fine.

I asked him if faulty Fuel Delivery Module explains why AMT did not downshift. I got a run of the mill answer that we ran many tests and AMT is perfectly fine. And he couldn’t understand the question which I tried to explain him in various ways.

He also kind of indicated that maybe I was in panicked state hence I might have felt that AMT did not downshift. But I also explained him that twice after the first incident I had observed the same thing.

I would like some advise from experienced BHPians and how to proceed:

How do I ensure that AMT is totally fine and this won’t be repeated ?
How does AMT respond in such scenario where there is sudden loss of power to engine ?
Is the repair work which they have performed is good enough ?
How does AMT ensures that it is fail safe in such scenarios ?

Please advise !

[abirnale]

Horrible experience to say the least.

Fuel delivery module failure may be reason for the gears to get stuck as if the engine is switched off and hence no actions on AMT. Fuel Delivery Module failure is a trigger that caused AMT to get stuck - this could be reasonable explanation in my opinion.

For now I think you have to carefully observe the car, use it cautiously until for another 1000-1500 Km or so. As a quick root cause analysis, see if you can get a bluetooth based OBD Dongle and as and when this happens check what is the fail code on the OBD App. This may help you diagnose from your side what could be the issue and your SA/ RM is not brushing off the entire episode just like that.

By the way, did you follow any run-in process? For diesel engines generally for first 5000 Kms speeds should be less than 100 or RPMs below 2500 mark. M&M might say there is no need to run-in but it does not hurt to follow it. in My XUV, I followed this to the diligently and *touchwood* I don't have a single niggle worth mentioning yet.

Also, if you feel appropriate, do mention about the dealership your car is being serviced/ repaired at after this incident.

[silverknight]

Originally Posted by abirnale

By the way, did you follow any run-in process? For diesel engines generally for first 5000 Kms speeds should be less than 100 or RPMs below 2500 mark. M&M might say there is no need to run-in but it does not hurt to follow it. in My XUV, I followed this to the diligently and *touchwood* I don't have a single niggle worth mentioning yet.

Also, if you feel appropriate, do mention about the dealership your car is being serviced/ repaired at after this incident.

Thanks for your suggestions.
The car had run-in of 1000kms and it is being worked upon by Kundan Motors Service center.

[sandeepmdas]

I don't know anything about AMT issues so this is purely .

Totally agree with the run-in process that abirnale has mentioned and let me suggest you to adhere the process as if it is a religious ritual. There's even a thread dedicated for it, IIRC, started by none other than GTO himself.

I was not that much informed when I bought my first car, an Indica V2 in 2004. I drove the just-delivered car like a madman while returning from showroom to my home and the Tacho touched 3000. Needless to say I never observed any run-in procedure at all.

After some months the car developed a kind of massive engine oil consumption and I was forced to top-up oil every 1000 or so kms. I searched the net for a solution in 2005 and got the link to Team-BHP from Google.

All my subsequent cars were very properly looked after while they were "infants", that is till the odo reached 5000 mark. These cars were/are all totally trouble-free as far as the engine is concerned, till this day.

[silverknight]

Received a response from M&M:
"We could narrow down to the root cause of the concern in your vehicle. The said concern was caused due to the dislocation of a small part in fuel delivery module that had resulted into drop in fuel pressure. Instead of replacing the affected part, we have replaced the entire fuel delivery module assembly. As informed, we had taken an extensive road test yesterday and today to check and validate optimum performance of the vehicle. We would like to inform you that there was no concern observed in the engine or the AMT. "

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by silverknight

Received a response from M&M:
"We could narrow down to the root cause of the concern in your vehicle. The said concern was caused due to the dislocation of a small part in fuel delivery module that had resulted into drop in fuel pressure. Instead of replacing the affected part, we have replaced the entire fuel delivery module assembly. As informed, we had taken an extensive road test yesterday and today to check and validate optimum performance of the vehicle. We would like to inform you that there was no concern observed in the engine or the AMT. "

That is good news, no nothing to worry about the AMT. However the "dislocation of a small part in fuel delivery module" is a matter of concern. I believe the fuel delivery module would be common for AMTs as well as MTs, so this issue can occur in the manual transmission TUVs as well. One will have to be extra cautious while doing triple digit speeds.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by silverknight

Received a response from M&M:
"We could narrow down to the root cause of the concern in your vehicle. The said concern was caused due to the dislocation of a small part in fuel delivery module that had resulted into drop in fuel pressure. Instead of replacing the affected part, we have replaced the entire fuel delivery module assembly. As informed, we had taken an extensive road test yesterday and today to check and validate optimum performance of the vehicle. We would like to inform you that there was no concern observed in the engine or the AMT. "

Good that there was a response and resolution. But I am still confused.

If it is related to the fuel system and fuel delivery, you should not have been able to drive the car in manual mode. From what I understand, post the problem you were still able to drive in manual mode and the AMT and the car was responding to the manual shifts.

Can the fuel delivery selectively impact AMT behavior? Maybe the experts here can throw more light.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by silverknight

Received a response from M&M:
"We could narrow down to the root cause of the concern in your vehicle. The said concern was caused due to the dislocation of a small part in fuel delivery module that had resulted into drop in fuel pressure. Instead of replacing the affected part, we have replaced the entire fuel delivery module assembly. As informed, we had taken an extensive road test yesterday and today to check and validate optimum performance of the vehicle. We would like to inform you that there was no concern observed in the engine or the AMT. "

Hi Girish, there's been no update from you since yesterday. Hope you have got your car back and it is working perfectly fine now. Did you test drive it extensively before taking the delivery? Also did they provide you the complete report as you were expecting?

Please update here how the complete story unfolded yesterday. Everyone is eager to know if this is a minor one off glitch or a bigger design/engineering issue. Looking forward to your reply.

[silverknight]

Yesterday I visited the service center had a word with service manager. I probed them more about "which part in Fuel Delivery Module" had failed but did not get a straight answer.
The customercare manager and service manager assured me that they have extensively taken trials to ensure optimum performance. In two days the car was run 150kms to ensure and I could confirm that from odo. They did not observe any problems with AMT and probably due to low fuel pressure car started engine braking and not because AMT could not downshift.
Yesterday I took the car over 100kmph and everything looked fine.
The explanation so far I have is the one mentioned in previous comments.
When I asked what is the assurance that this won't happen again and they said that they have replaced the FDM.
Plus when I asked that I would like to talk with mechanic who worked upon the vehicle they told me that the technical team from M&M had come to check the issue.

They have also offered to compensate for travel arrangements I had to make on Sunday because of car failure. And will also paint the front bumper which has scratches due to a minor nudge by another car. They will deliver the car home today.

[lucifer1881]

Originally Posted by silverknight

...They have also offered to compensate for travel arrangements I had to make on Sunday because of car failure. And will also paint the front bumper which has scratches due to a minor nudge by another car. They will deliver the car home today.

Wow!

This is just brilliant customer service. Amazon level customer service, if I may compare. If only more car manufacturers took customer service even half as seriously... If wishes were horses!

Cars are mechanical. It is unfair to expect that things won't go wrong with them. What one expects is support from the manufacturer when they do. In this case, M&M has come up trumps. Kudos!

[KomS_CarLog]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

Wow!

This is just brilliant customer service. Amazon level customer service, if I may compare. If only more car manufacturers took customer service even half as seriously... If wishes were horses!

Cars are mechanical. It is unfair to expect that things won't go wrong with them. What one expects is support from the manufacturer when they do. In this case, M&M has come up trumps. Kudos!

I agree. We have come to subconsciously believe (if I may) that modern cars are perfect machines. After-sales-service is a key differentiator. With this, one knows/believes that the problem at hand will be looked into and, perhaps, addressed. In this instance, M&M have done a good job.

We have another thread going on about an Ecosport with a broken axle. Over there too, it is good to know that Ford is ready to launch a formal investigation.

This certainly is what's expected from manufacturers after sales (apart from high quality parts and products during manufacturing).

[silverknight]

Originally Posted by lucifer1881

Wow!

This is just brilliant customer service. Amazon level customer service, if I may compare. If only more car manufacturers took customer service even half as seriously... If wishes were horses!

Cars are mechanical. It is unfair to expect that things won't go wrong with them. What one expects is support from the manufacturer when they do. In this case, M&M has come up trumps. Kudos!

Couldn't agree more ! And they are not doing this just to cover up the failure but I do see genuineness in their actions which was observed even in my first visit to fix a door rattle.
The vehicle was delivered home by the manager of Kundan motors service center and M&M Pune Customcare manager.

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by KomS_CarLog

I agree. We have come to subconsciously believe (if I may) that modern cars are perfect machines. After-sales-service is a key differentiator. With this, one knows/believes that the problem at hand will be looked into and, perhaps, addressed. In this instance, M&M have done a good job.

We have another thread going on about an Ecosport with a broken axle. Over there too, it is good to know that Ford is ready to launch a formal investigation.

This certainly is what's expected from manufacturers after sales (apart from high quality parts and products during manufacturing).

Very true. Due credit should also be given to our TBHP forum. This has become like a watchdog for Auto manufacturers and Auto dealers alike. Remember what SEBI is for investors, on similar lines TBHP is for auto enthusiasts and general car owning public. I am sure all auto companies are keeping a close tab on the various threads on TBHP and taking pre-emptive actions so that they don't lose the good will.

Bit , but wanted to share my experience. You won't believe when the humming noise problem of my Innova was not resolved even after changing the front wheel right side bearing and I updated the same in my Innova thread, the very next day I got a call from Toyota Kirloskar Motors head office, Bangalore. They made the service center contact me, picked up the car from my home for fixing the noise and arranged for a loaner car. They also ensured that the dealership's General Manager - Service and General Manager - Customer Care had a one hour long meetig with me to understand my problem and how could they serve me better.

On similar lines when I was not getting updates about the delivery status of my TUV, I sent a note to Mahindra customer care. Their Area Sales Manager called me. When I told him that I was a TBHP member and I know the monthly sales figures of TUV, he was taken by surprise. He not only explained me the whole process of manufacturing, dealer billing, dispatching, PDI etc, but ensured that my car was delivered to me well before the committed delivery date.

Originally Posted by silverknight

Couldn't agree more ! And they are not doing this just to cover up the failure but I do see genuineness in their actions which was observed even in my first visit to fix a door rattle.
The vehicle was delivered home by the manager of Kundan motors service center and M&M Pune Customcare manager.

Good gesture by the manager of Kundan motors service center and M&M Pune Customer care manager to deliver the car personally . Things like these matter a lot. Personal attention from the top people helps to build that confidence. So even if there is a delay of one day in delivering the car, we know that it is for genuine reason and we can trust the people who are handling our cars.

[KomS_CarLog]

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

Very true. Due credit should also be given to our TBHP forum. This has become like a watchdog for Auto manufacturers and Auto dealers alike. Remember what SEBI is for investors, on similar lines TBHP is for auto enthusiasts and general car owning public. I am sure all auto companies are keeping a close tab on the various threads on TBHP and taking pre-emptive actions so that they don't lose the good will.

TBHP sure is a force to reckon with. All the intellectual brains & material out here, is just - mind blowing, superb and unmatched! That is why I am here

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

On similar lines when I was not getting updates about the delivery status of my TUV, I sent a note to Mahindra customer care. Their Area Sales Manager called me. When I told him that I was a TBHP member and I know the monthly sales figures of TUV, he was taken by surprise. He not only explained me the whole process of manufacturing, dealer billing, dispatching, PDI etc, but ensured that my car was delivered to me well before the committed delivery date.

On a lighter note, that's an awesome idea - to flex my TBHP muscles

Coming to the thread now - would we have information available on the Ricardo AMT system deployed in the TUV300. I posted this question in the TUV300 Official review thread too - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3851333

[AutoIndian]

Originally Posted by silverknight

The vehicle was delivered home by the manager of Kundan motors service center and M&M Pune Customcare manager.

Hi Girish, its been 3 days now that the issue was fixed and car delivered back to you. How's been your experience for these 3 days? Were you able to replicate the same scenario and did the car perform flawlessly? Has the issue been fixed permanently for good? Please share your experience as there are many fence sitters here for the TUV AMT and their "Go-No go" decision might be based on your overall experience with the AMT.