[Janjua]

Nice thread. As soon as I get my hands on my Thar, I am going to exchange the Bridgestone Duelers HT 235/70/R16 with Yokohama Geolandar 255/65/R16.
My only issue is that would there be a significant change in the ground clearance if the profile of the tyre is reduced from 70 to 65?
Inputs would be more than welcome.

Regards.

[autoholic]

Originally Posted by Janjua

Nice thread. As soon as I get my hands on my Thar, I am going to exchange the Bridgestone Duelers HT 235/70/R16 with Yokohama Geolandar 255/65/R16.
My only issue is that would there be a significant change in the ground clearance if the profile of the tyre is reduced from 70 to 65?
Inputs would be more than welcome.

Regards.

Brother by changing tyres from 235/70/R16 to 255/65/R16, you will be actually increasing your ground clearance.

The profile 70 or 65 as mentioned by you is actually the height of sidewall expressed as percentage of width of the tyre which in this case is 235 and 255 respectively.

235/70/R16 - Sidewall height 70% of 235 = 164.5mm

255/65/R16 - Sidewall height 65% of 255 = 165.75mm

So total change(increase) in ground clearance = 165.75-164.5= 1.25mm

[Janjua]

Originally Posted by autoholic

Brother by changing tyres from 235/70/R16 to 255/65/R16, you will be actually increasing your ground clearance.

The profile 70 or 65 as mentioned by you is actually the height of sidewall expressed as percentage of width of the tyre which in this case is 235 and 255 respectively.

235/70/R16 - Sidewall height 70% of 235 = 164.5mm

255/65/R16 - Sidewall height 65% of 255 = 165.75mm

So total change(increase) in ground clearance = 165.75-164.5= 1.25mm

Thanks autoholic for enlightening me. I really appreciate it.
This is why team-bhp is a favourite with so many of us. Great authentic information from some of the best auto-heads around the world.
Love it. Thanks again
Regards.

[Oreen]

Really loved Riju's detailed review of the Yoko Geolanders. I have run 60000 K on my Pirelli Scorpion A/Ts (Bolero, 215/75/R15), and they still have a lot of life left in them, but apparently they are not available any more. Plus the unholy desire of upgrading from 215s to 235s has worked itself up to such an itch, I am not even reading comments about how the 235s can foul with the fenders, etc. I need them, period.

Getting a quote of 6.5 K for the 235/75/15 Geolander ATs from Sai Iyengar on Bannerghatta Road. Will see how much he gives for my used Pirellis.

If I put 235s, will the Bolero suspension need some modifications? Will these be too big for the Bolero?

[rjstyles69]

Have run 22k kms with these tires now and only a single puncture. Neat !!

Originally Posted by Oreen

Getting a quote of 6.5 K for the 235/75/15 Geolander ATs from Sai Iyengar on Bannerghatta Road. Will see how much he gives for my used Pirellis.

6.5k sounds like a good price, I would say visit a few other dealers and check with them. You might find someone offering a better price.

Originally Posted by Oreen

If I put 235s, will the Bolero suspension need some modifications? Will these be too big for the Bolero?

The correct size is 235/70/R15 and I don't think you should have any problems with those tires. It is the perfect upsize for the Bolero

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by rjstyles69

The OTR gurus can comment here since from what I have read these are the most benefitted folks from the multi stepped grooves.
.
.
.
Over time I even found out that these tires self cleaned themselves. The tires had accumulated a lot of muck between the grooves while driving via the forests of NR Pet, Shimoga. All it took was 1km on normal hardened surface which never had any tarmac, all the stuck and hardened muck was history. Samurai confirmed this during his OTR stint in Coorg.

The most interesting story (Offroading at Kakkabe/Coorg: A Report) related to this happened in Dec 2009.

Originally Posted by Samurai

The killing fields…



We had to drive over the slush, take a left turn and reach the Jeeps parked on the left extreme. Sounds simple right? Now consider this, those two Jeeps on the right side are not parked, they are sunk till the differentials. So don’t judge the terrain by the photos, we couldn’t judge the terrain while standing there in person, until we saw Jeeps getting swallowed by the ground.

So I am standing there, visually tracing my run through the slush, forming a strategy… and I see Jagat walking purposefully towards my Jeep, mainly staring at my tyres.

Jagat: I suggest you don’t try this, your tyres can’t do it.
Me: What? These are Yokohama Geolander AT-S, they are good in mud.
Jagat: (looks close at the tyres again) Whatever, these won’t do it. You need NDMS or mud pattern.
Me: But I bought these especially to deal with mud.
Jagat: If you go, you will get stuck.
Me: Well, I will go. Worst thing that can happen is getting stuck. I can’t believe my Geolandar AT-S can’t handle it.
Jagat: Ok. Give it a try. If you get stuck, we have a tractor standing by.

Now I was doubly committed to make it through. I wouldn’t have cared if some ordinary person had made that comment. But Jagat… Ab tho Geolandar AT-S ka izzath ka sawal hai. And I was not about to let Geolandar AT-S down due to my incompetence or inexperience. I was totally charged up now.

As I was about to jump into the driver seat, Viji drives up and prepares to take off ahead of me. He too traces a path with his eyes and takes off. But he had made a deadly mistake. He didn’t realize that the Jeeps on the right were stuck, instead he thought they were parked after crossing the slush. So he aims for them, and parks and then sinks right behind them. My jaw just drops seeing this turn of event.

Meanwhile, marshals are getting agitated seeing so many Jeeps getting stuck. Couple of them suggest I avoid the slush and slink by the rear to the other side. But what about Geolandar AT-S, I had a point to prove here.
So I took a deep breath, traced a slightly different path than Viji and took off at 2nd low. Now I know one thing, momentum is my friend. If I stop anywhere, I will sink like a stone. So I kept the throttle up, even though the terrain was making the Jeep fly off the ground every 2-3 seconds, I kept up the tempo. And the CF leafs ensured that the rise and fall didn’t jolt my back too much. It was like riding a wild horse. I don’t think the whole ride lasted beyond 30 seconds, but I had crossed the bad lands, including the 3 sunk jeeps. At first I thought about stopping to help winch out the guys, but the marshals asked me to move forward. They had a tractor right there for all the towing duties.

When I moved on, I saw marshal Devaiah (Dev) giving a big thumbs up, he had seen my slush drive. After parking the Jeep I dragged him along to look for Jagat. He was near the stream looking over the final hurdle, I interrupted him and told him that my Geolandar AT-S could clear the slush field without a hitch. And I produced marshal Dev as official witness, who concurred. Jagat nodded with a distant look, I guess he won’t discount the mud-ability of Yokohama Geolandar AT-S lightly in future. Point proven.

Let's fast forward to the present. About 10 days back I attended the OTR at Belthangady (4x4 Nature Riders OTR at Belthangady). As we were waiting for the start-off, one of the local guys stared at my tyres and says...

Local: I doubt these tyres can perform today, there is lot of slush in the trail. You need tyres with buttons.
Me: <about to open my mouth...>
Jagat: No, these tyres do well in mud. They are the best if you want onroad and offroad performance from the same tyre.
Local: Oh really...<after hearing rally legend's opinion, he had nothing to say>

It was clear that Jagat was now well familiar with Yoko Geo AT-S since the first encounter in 2009.

Regarding durability, in the same OTR, master offroader Sibi Paul walks by my Jeep and wonders how many KMs I have done on these tyres. Frankly, I had no idea, except I have them for 2 years and driven in all kind of onroad/offroad terrain, may be about 10-12K. Then he says it looks like new.

Don't they?

[jaysmokesleaves]

Tire update:
Yokohama Geolander AT/s (235/70 R16) on Tata Safari 2.2 Dicor 4x4 - 25000kms

Pros:
Good grip in wet conditions, Slushy trails and offroad dirt tracks.
Soft cushioned ride.
Good tread depth.
Excellent slush performance.

Cons:
Soft sidewalls prone to cuts very easily.
Not suitable for driving over stones or jagged roads.

My Yokohama experience:
I bought a set of 5 Yokohama tires in April 2010.
1st tire exploded from the centre of the tire to the sidewall upwards in Mumbai city potholes with 90% tread on it. gave it to the dealer who said company claim was refused due to own damage.

I bought a 2nd hand spare tire for use and used the new spare Yoko as main tire.
On a trip to MP on bad State highways and dirt track use(soft loose mud with some stones), the tire suffered multiple punctures.

Before my recent Ladakh trip, I bought a new Yoko(6th tire). This one was used as main tire and the one with punctures was put as stepney.
The second hand tire was removed from service.

During the Ladakh trip, with some offroad use considering the prevailing road conditions in Ladakh(rocks, stones, slush etc another exploded due to a side wall cut.
I drove till Udaipur without a stepney after which another tire had multiple punctures and cuts. Bought 1 MRF Wanderer AT as main tire and put the Yoko as spare.
I noticed that the sidewall on the MRF is considerably thicker than the Yoko. This might lead to a slightly stiffer ride, but im sure it wont cut so easily as the Yoko.

Conclusion:
I have recommended the Yoko to quite a few folks on this forum. However, I would recommend the Yoko only for mild AT applications since I do not think it is designed to handle the terrain in India. Those intending to use it for places which have really bad roads, potholes with stones etc will be better off staying away from the Yoko.

The OE Bridgestone HT that came on my Safari seemed to handle rocks n stones better, though the ride was a tad harsh. I used the Bridge stones for a lot of offroad applications and their performance is slush was poor(HT tires), hence the upgrade to Yoko's for better slush and AT performance. I replaced the Bridge stones at 45000kms. However, I feel Yoko AT is not designed for Indian road conditions.

I have 1 MRF Wanderer AT installed on the front(which I bought from Udaipur after I was left without a stepney). The ride seems much more silent than the Yoko. Considering that MRF builds tires for Indian conditions, i think i will use MRF for my next tire change.

Will be glad to answer any queries on the tires.

Cheers,
Jay

[drkakkilaya]

interenting opinion on yokohoma. I ve run 35000 on my yokohoma geolander 255/65 R16 on my safari. As far as the grip goes, im not totally convinced its possible to differentiate easily between tyres. i ve had Bridgestone duelers , goodyear Wrangler , michelins on my older safari and presently geolander.

Correct me if im wrong .Is it possible do differentiate the grip levels among different tyres in regular day to day use. i feel unless you are pushing the speed to limits and break close to limits it might be difficult to say which one provides more grip.
its probably easier to differentiate it in extreme conditions - off road , rains.
But in everyday rides i dont think its possible to say which tyre company provides better grip.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by drkakkilaya

i feel unless you are pushing the speed to limits and break close to limits it might be difficult to say which one provides more grip.

It is possible to differentiate if you use the tires on their limit for the purpose they are designed for. No point of having AT tires if you are going to drive solely on the highway and paved roads. Even HT tires can handle considerable offroad use. So IMHO AT tires should be put to the test where you can form an opinion on them. I have done that in 4wd & 2wd.
Well my opinion is based upon using the tires on the limit. Whats the point in posting an opinion on AT tires if I dont actually put them thru ALL Terrain they are meant for.

The Bridgestones on my Safari had seen more hardcore offroad(ruts, sharp stones, slush, muck, no roads,etc) than the Yoko's. The Yokos, while delivering on the grip and ride perspective have failed miserably on durability when put to the ALL Terrain usage.
The weakest link on the Yoko AT is the thin sidewall. If you intend using the AT tires the way I do, then you would do good to put your money on better tires.
I would also stay away from Michelin for AT use in Indian conditions.
I am also seriously considering BFG AT. Though a tad noisy, im sure the sidewalls can handle torture.

Cheers,

Jay

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

However, I would recommend the Yoko only for mild AT applications since I do not think it is designed to handle the terrain in India. Those intending to use it for places which have really bad roads, potholes with stones etc will be better off staying away from the Yoko.

That's a strange recommendation considering Yoko AT-S is the most trusted and most popular tyre among Karnataka offroaders, who use it for hardcore offroading. I agree about the weak sidewall, I too have an almost sidewall hole, that happened only because I had deflated the tyre significantly for the rocky terrain.

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

I am also seriously considering BFG AT. Though a tad noisy, im sure the sidewalls can handle torture.

Good sidewall, but useless in mud & slush. Doesn't self-clean at all. Consider only if you are into dry/dusty offroading.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by Samurai

That's a strange recommendation considering Yoko AT-S is the most trusted and most popular tyre among Karnataka offroaders, who use it for hardcore offroading. I agree about the weak sidewall, I too have an almost sidewall hole, that happened only because I had deflated the tyre significantly for the rocky terrain.

Good sidewall, but useless in mud & slush. Doesn't self-clean at all. Consider only if you are into dry/dusty offroading.

What would you recommend for slushy applications too with a stronger sidewall. Im done with trying and testing Yokos. 6 tires - 2 lost to torn sidewalls and another with multiple punctures. Certainly not a case of bad luck

[Ragul]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

I have 1 MRF Wanderer AT installed on the front(which I bought from Udaipur after I was left without a stepney). The ride seems much more silent than the Yoko. Considering that MRF builds tires for Indian conditions, i think i will use MRF for my next tire change.

Will be glad to answer any queries on the tires.

Cheers,
Jay

Jay

How is this MRF wanderer in braking and handling? As good as Yokos?

--Ragul

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

What would you recommend for slushy applications too with a stronger sidewall. Im done with trying and testing Yokos. 6 tires - 2 lost to torn sidewalls and another with multiple punctures. Certainly not a case of bad luck

Unfortunately, there is no AT tyre with strong sidewall which is good in slush. If you need both, MT is the way to go. But then highway use is totally compromised.

[jaysmokesleaves]

Originally Posted by Ragul

Jay

How is this MRF wanderer in braking and handling? As good as Yokos?

--Ragul

Too early for me to comment on the handling and braking of the Wanderer. Its done just 1000kms till now. Any tire comes into its own only after about 2k kms.
One immediate observation is that tire noise is almost non existent. Ride is not as soft as the Yoko but not hard enough to bother about - similar to the Bridgestones. I cant comment on the braking yet, since ony 1 tire upfront is MRF. But i feel pretty confident about its durability.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Unfortunately, there is no AT tyre with strong sidewall which is good in slush. If you need both, MT is the way to go. But then highway use is totally compromised.

I think I will try the Wanderer or try and find Bridgestone AT which is exactly what I desire.

[Oreen]

Originally Posted by rjstyles69

Have run 22k kms with these tires now and only a single puncture. Neat !!



6.5k sounds like a good price, I would say visit a few other dealers and check with them. You might find someone offering a better price.



The correct size is 235/70/R15 and I don't think you should have any problems with those tires. It is the perfect upsize for the Bolero

Hi RJ, because of the tremendous itch, I couldn't wait to scout around for 235/70/15s. Went ahead and got the 235/75/15s from Millivision near Lalbagh for about 6100 each tyre. These are 2011 made, and after getting them fixed, the Bolero hasn't really handled any differently. Definitely very smooth. Am sure the odo and speedo will give me wrong readings now, so can I go for an old Scorpio meter (turbo engined, with 15" wheels)? I have attached two pics of how the Bolero looks now... am beaming