[desertfox]

For starters the front and rear bumper will be knocked off or badly dented.
CV joint or steering tie road will break
footboard will be badly dented / totally smashed, with courtesy light wires protuding out.

At least one of the silencer chambers will be smashed and the radiator will have a crack in the bottom, plenty of red coolant will be flowing all around

If the driver is inexperienced count in a burnt clutch as well.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by desertfox

1. The front and rear bumper will be knocked off or badly dented. 2. CV joint or steering tie road will break. 3. Footboard will be badly dented / totally smashed, with courtesy light wires protuding out. 4. At least one of the silencer chambers will be smashed. 5. The radiator will have a crack in the bottom, plenty of red coolant will be flowing all around. 6. If the driver is inexperienced count in a burnt clutch as well.

Dear Shahidji - my replies to your 6 statements are as follows. I presume you are making these statements with particular reference to Thar CRDe.

1. Front and rear bumpers should not be there at all during off-roading. No part, no issue.
2. If driven sensibly using a little bit of common sense, nothing will happen. It is a proven design.
3. Same as 1. No part, no issue.
4. Same as 2, minor grazes are expected though.
5. No please. Radiator is above chassis long member.
6. Same as 2. Drivers must be explained how to use the clutch advantageously to gain their confidence and trust.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by desertfox

CV joint or steering tie road will break

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

2. If driven sensibly using a little bit of common sense, nothing will happen. It is a proven design.

Re: Tie rod end:

I agree the part is not unbeatable, robust, or abuse friendly, but, with some common sense, a break down can be prevented.

I've been in a trail planning for an event for the last 20-25 days, and a Thar broke its newly replaced tie-rod. However, what I could make out is that the driver should understand that the steering slightly over assisted and because of that, in OTR's you dont get to know whats preventing your wheel from turning, and if you still go ahead and turn hard ..click.. will pop out/ break your tie rod.

So, for preventing your tie rods from popping out, I guess, you will have to have a sensible spotter/or 'feel' the steering for resistance and turn the Jeep like turning a manual steering.. roll-turn-roll-turn...

After the driver/drivers started to practiced this, in the same trail where a 3 day old end broke, the replaced part is still ~15 days and running fine..

P.S: Assuming Thar and Scorpio have similar spec ones?

[desertfox]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Shahidji - my replies to your 6 statements are as follows. I presume you are making these statements with particular reference to Thar CRDe.

1. Front and rear bumpers should not be there at all during off-roading. No part, no issue.
2. If driven sensibly using a little bit of common sense, nothing will happen. It is a proven design.
3. Same as 1. No part, no issue.
4. Same as 2, minor grazes are expected though.
5. No please. Radiator is above chassis long member.
6. Same as 2. Drivers must be explained how to use the clutch advantageously to gain their confidence and trust.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

No Sir ( Dhabar Bhai )

This was in reference to Scorpio 4x4 versions whether VLX or VX which I do have but do not poseess the heart, money and afterward time and effort involved to restore the vehicle if driven on this kind of off road terrain over sheer boulders.

[desertfox]

Dear Behram Dhabhar Sir,

I am willing to fly down at my own cost to Pune and back.

Give me one of your Tata Safari Storme 4x4 demo cars to drive along with a rescue vehicle, tow straps and a winch. I will carry the Kinetic Energy Recovery rope, First Aid equipment and other stuff in my baggage.

First I will demonstrate correct driving techniques on this terrain and take out your vehicle virtually unscatched.

Then I will drive it the way a normal Punter ( your customer ) would handle it in an off road event.

You can see what I am saying above for yourself and it will be a great object lesson for your company's own R & D efforts.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by desertfox

First I will demonstrate correct driving techniques on this terrain and take out your vehicle virtually unscatched.
Then I will drive it the way a normal customer would handle it in an off road event.

Dear Shahidji - we both know how to drive vehicles unscatched out of any tricky offroad situation. The value add happens when this capability is panned out to the normal customers, the concentration should be on this activity. There is nothing for either of us to prove to one another.

Dear Dhanush - thanks for your observations on the tie rod. If you are hell bent on breaking it, it will break like a twig! If you use common sense, it will provide normal performance for its intended life cycle. The equation is very simple because it is nothing but common sense. Customers need to understand or customers need to be made to understand.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[headers]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

The value add happens when this capability is panned out to the normal customers, the concentration should be on this activity.

My start point would be M&M dealers who actually dont understand how a 4x4 works or what the 4x4 (L) is all about

.....

observations on the tie rod. If you are hell bent on breaking it, it will break like a twig! If you use common sense, it will provide normal performance for its intended life cycle. The equation is very simple because it is nothing but common sense. Customers need to understand or customers need to be made to understand.

How do customers understand, especially, when the target audience is buying a 4x4 for the first time? Is there any training provided to educate the customer on what to do and what not to with the vehicle?

It is understandable and natural that given a power steering with a lousy feedback that the "average joe" breaks the system. This points to a faulty design or the lack of it.

FMEA not working sir

[pdev29]

Originally Posted by desertfox

How did the MM 550 / 540 in the pictures perform ?

And the Thar ? Did it break something, was relegated to the easier option , what happened ?

Is your club / off road group called Extreme Offroaders ?

The 550 did well considering the driver was doing such offroad for the first time. it was on AT and plus the fan was touching body every time chassis/body twisted. Needs some tweaks and good rubber.

Thar was unscratched. it just rubbed the rear shackles once.

Yes our group is called Extreme Offroaders aka EXO.

the only vehicle which got beating was Safari. it did only one obstacle after which owner went with a different group on a easier trail.

[Deep_Shri]

Hi Devang:

In post #12 you mentioned about a trip to Ladakh being planned. Is it open to fellow Team-Bhp members to join or restricted to a select group of people?

If you could share the details I will be grateful.

Cheers!!!

Deep

[pdev29]

@Deep,

its open for all SUV owners (Preference to 4x4). details will be posted soon on a new thread

[nimblethrottle]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Dear Behram Dhabhar Sir,

I am willing to fly down at my own cost to Pune and back.

Give me one of your Tata Safari Storme 4x4 demo cars to drive along with a rescue vehicle, tow straps and a winch. I will carry the Kinetic Energy Recovery rope, First Aid equipment and other stuff in my baggage.

First I will demonstrate correct driving techniques on this terrain and take out your vehicle virtually unscatched.

Then I will drive it the way a normal Punter ( your customer ) would handle it in an off road event.

You can see what I am saying above for yourself and it will be a great object lesson for your company's own R & D efforts.

I can drive the rescue vehicle. When is this happening?

Also, the terrain chosen has a lot of small boulders, bigger SUV's like the safari and the xuv could do great without the parts over long distance off-roaring combining multiple terrains and look tamed in the city. Great start though, the thar rockers would have been all simles after the trip.

[Parm]

Driving skills are very important when it comes to driving a vehicle ON road or OFF road.

One needs to understand the limitations and capabilities of the vehicle one is driving ON road or OFF road.

Its always the Man/Woman who controls the machines and take the best out of its capabilities still staying within its limitations.

Stock off road vehicles are prone to damage in extreme off road conditions and one has to prepare (modify) the vehicle meant for the conditions.

Skill drivers can manage the offroad conditions even in stock vehicles and others cant even manage a modified vehicle in offroad conditions.

My Hilux 4WD has a massive rear overhang, but I have learnt how to use it in various conditions so that I don't scrape its rear anywhere.

With my Hilux I have rescued an injured female motorcycle rider from dry river wadi, driving it over stones. ( She took me to dinner after her ankle and wrist were fixed back )

With my Hilux I have pulled out a Land Cruiser stuck in the sand.

With my Hilux, I have pulled a Taxi stuck in sand near Jebel Ali port.

All I meant to say is that its just a 2.7 ltr vehicle, but I do manage to utilize its power and capabilities to its maximum advantage, still staying within its limitations.

So we all know that THAR is a brilliant success and MM is laughing all the way to the bank and BD sir laughed all the way to TATA!

We all LOVE the classic CJ5 design and its simply eternal, though we all have our own reasons for not buying the THAR.

Lets use the THAR the way its meant to be used....521 way!

[Roja]

Originally Posted by pdev29

@Deep,

its open for all SUV owners (Preference to 4x4). details will be posted soon on a new thread

Hi there Devang,

While surfing the net today, I came across a few photos of your trip to Ladakh, on Facebook. I tried looking this up on the Teambhp website, but not finding anything, decided to write here ( would have ideally sent you a PM, but I guess I am just new so I do not have the priveliges to do so :( ). I was particulary interested to find out about the maroon / red Xenon with a short body on your trip to Ladakh. Any possibilty to get some information on the work done? Costs? Also how was the performance of the vehicle?

Mods: If this is off topic, request if you could direct this correctly.

Thanks again,
R

[pdev29]

Roja, that was my friends xenon with 33" Mts , used in raid de himalaya. I think it was export version with cossworth upgrade

[Roja]

Originally Posted by pdev29

Roja, that was my friends xenon with 33" Mts , used in raid de himalaya. I think it was export version with cossworth upgrade

Many many thanks .. is there anyway to get in touch with your friend ? for some details on the vehicle? I could leave my email with you if you would like?

Also how did it perform on the trip?

Best,
R