[powertrain]

Hi BHPians. For the past 4 monts or so i have been trying to find an Armada Grand 4wd,but without any luck. I have found plenty of Grand 2wd.

Now my query is this-
1. Can an Armada Grand be converted to 4 wd?
2. Will it be reliable?
3. How much would it cost?
4. Where can I find a reputed garage for this conversion? I reside in Mumbai, so Mumbai Jeepers please help !!!!!!!!!!

I wanna be a Jeeper soon, so any advice or suggesions would be welcome!!!!!!

[trammway]

Originally Posted by powertrain

Hi BHPians. For the past 4 monts or so i have been trying to find an Armada Grand 4wd,but without any luck. I have found plenty of Grand 2wd.

Now my query is this-
1. Can an Armada Grand be converted to 4 wd?
2. Will it be reliable?
3. How much would it cost?
4. Where can I find a reputed garage for this conversion? I reside in Mumbai, so Mumbai Jeepers please help !!!!!!!!!!

I wanna be a Jeeper soon, so any advice or suggesions would be welcome!!!!!!

It is very much possible. You need the following items to convert your Armada Grand into 4WD vehicle

1. BA-10 gear box with Transfer case (Approximately Rs. 35000/- will be your wallet damage and bit difficult but not impossible to find one)

2. Front differential housing (I guess it is 9/44 ratio) with disc brake knuckle kit. (please refer your exact width of rear differential housing and get the similar width front housing) (Approximately 15000/- in the 2nd hand market)

3. You also need to buy rear differential kit or the housing as the 4WD setup will require the differential to be on right(drive side) side of the vehicle.(Approximately 11000/- in the 2nd hand market)

4. You also require a propeller shaft to run the front differential from transfer case. (Buy new one with in 2000/- approx)

5. You need to do a little alternation or change the gear lever boot inside the Armada Grand cabin ground between the driver and passenger leg space.


The gear levers of BA-10 gearbox with transfer case and the linkages should be in good condition to make your setup work seamlessly.

I would suggest try getting the BA-10 with manual transfercase kit instead of BA-10 with motorized transfercase kit.

Of course you need to consider your mechanics bills and other running around expenses too.

[beejay]

Originally Posted by powertrain

Hi BHPians. For the past 4 monts or so i have been trying to find an Armada Grand 4wd,but without any luck. I have found plenty of Grand 2wd.

Now my query is this-
1. Can an Armada Grand be converted to 4 wd?
2. Will it be reliable?
3. How much would it cost?
4. Where can I find a reputed garage for this conversion? I reside in Mumbai, so Mumbai Jeepers please help !!!!!!!!!!

I wanna be a Jeeper soon, so any advice or suggesions would be welcome!!!!!!

Any specific reason for zeroing in on the Grand?

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by trammway

It is very much possible. You need the following items to convert your Armada Grand into 4WD vehicle

1. BA-10 gear box with Transfer case (Approximately Rs. 35000/- will be your wallet damage and bit difficult but not impossible to find one)

2. Front differential housing (I guess it is 9/44 ratio) with disc brake knuckle kit. (please refer your exact width of rear differential housing and get the similar width front housing) (Approximately 15000/- in the 2nd hand market)

3. You also need to buy rear differential kit or the housing as the 4WD setup will require the differential to be on right(drive side) side of the vehicle.(Approximately 11000/- in the 2nd hand market)

4. You also require a propeller shaft to run the front differential from transfer case. (Buy new one with in 2000/- approx)

5. You need to do a little alternation or change the gear lever boot inside the Armada Grand cabin ground between the driver and passenger leg space.


The gear levers of BA-10 gearbox with transfer case and the linkages should be in good condition to make your setup work seamlessly.

I would suggest try getting the BA-10 with manual transfercase kit instead of BA-10 with motorized transfercase kit.

Of course you need to consider your mechanics bills and other running around expenses too.

Hi Powertrain,

1) Gearbox - use KMT90+18 + Bell Housing for XD3P (18-20K)

2) Front Differential (Closed Knuckle or OKBJ)
a) Closed Knuckle I would recommend the 58" Track and used the 2WD Steering Knuckle and brakes used in the M&M FC Van. (8K)
b) OKBJ 57" Track - Maxx/Bolero 4WD. (20K)

3) Rear-Differential - Keep the 2WD rear Diff. That is common to all Armada Grand & Bolero

4) Diff-Ratio - Change the differential Ratio to 5.38:1 front and Back and Use 31/32/33" Tyres. (3Kx2= 6K)

5) Propeller Shaft - You will have to make custom prop-shafts which cost about 1.5-4K each (Front & Rear)

Regards,

Arka

[sreerajunnithan]

1. BA-10 gear box with Transfer case (Approximately Rs. 35000/- will be your wallet damage and bit difficult but not impossible to find one)

Armada Grand comes with BA-10 so he only need to source Borg Warner Xfercase.

2. Front differential housing (I guess it is 9/44 ratio) with disc brake knuckle kit. (please refer your exact width of rear differential housing and get the similar width front housing) (Approximately 15000/- in the 2nd hand market)

Isn't possible to source a an entire from Axel/Diff assembly?

3. You also need to buy rear differential kit or the housing as the 4WD setup will require the differential to be on right(drive side) side of the vehicle.(Approximately 11000/- in the 2nd hand market)

Armada Grand's Rear differential is slightly left offset (Co-driver side) so he can use the same differential.

4. You also require a propeller shaft to run the front differential from transfer case. (Buy new one with in 2000/- approx)

Always go for new one.

I would suggest try getting the BA-10 with manual transfercase kit instead of BA-10 with motorized transfercase kit.

Spot on!!! Original Armada Grand came with electric shift which is a pain.

5) Propeller Shaft - You will have to make custom prop-shafts which cost about 1.5-4K each (Front & Rear)

Arka,

Akra, why custom made Prop shafts?(If he use BA-10) I thought he can reduce the length of rear prop shaft (Or go for new prop shaft for Armada Grand 4WD) since X-Fercase will be additional length, and use new one for front (Stock). I could be wrong here.

Thanks
--Sree--

[4x4addict]

Arka:

The 2WD Armada grand has the diff in the center of the axles without any off-set? Wouldn't that have to be changed when the gearbox/t-case is changed to KMT90+T18 due to the offset prop shaft from the t-case?

[vinod_nookala]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Arka:

The 2WD Armada grand has the diff in the center of the axles without any off-set? Wouldn't that have to be changed when the gearbox/t-case is changed to KMT90+T18 due to the offset prop shaft from the t-case?

KMT 90 4wd transfercase cannot be used on Armada grand as the differential is slightly offset to left. In BA 10 the rear output is from center be it 2wd or 4wd which is not the case in KMT 90 4wd. If he uses KMT90 4wd gear box rear diff offset has to be changed to right which is cumbersome and if the off set is changed by welding grinding etc it is not safe

Best is to go for a complete set up of BA 10 4wd gearbox, source front axle assembly, convert it to manual set up and have a happy road crusing and some ofroadability

[sreerajunnithan]

In BA 10 the rear output is from center be it 2wd or 4wd which is not the case in KMT 90 4wd.

Vinod, not necessarily. The offset depends on the transfer case. If you have Borg Warner with BA-10, He can use current rear diff. If its is T18 with BA-10 it will be right offset, i have BA-10 with T-18 (Most Probably) look at the below picture



Now look at Beboy's setup, Though its a NGT 530, dimensions are equivalent to BA-10. He has a Borg Warner hence rear diff is almost center (Slightly Left Offset)

Best is to go for a complete set up of BA 10 4wd gearbox, source front axle assembly, convert it to manual set up and have a happy road crusing and some ofroadability

Ideally this is the Best he can do, or he can use the BA-10 and change the last part of the 2WD GB and attach a Borg Warner Xfercase, and save the money of rear diff assembly.

PS: By looking at all these Tech jargons, he mignt have abandoned the entire idea Don't worry pal, its possible.

Thanks
--Sree--

[vinod_nookala]

Thanks Sree...it was out of my mind that T18 tranfer case can be attached to the BA-10. Since the topic was Armada grand, brog warner case was the only one in my mind:-))

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Arka:

The 2WD Armada grand has the diff in the center of the axles without any off-set? Wouldn't that have to be changed when the gearbox/t-case is changed to KMT90+T18 due to the offset prop shaft from the t-case?

Originally Posted by vinod_nookala

KMT 90 4wd transfercase cannot be used on Armada grand as the differential is slightly offset to left. In BA 10 the rear output is from center be it 2wd or 4wd which is not the case in KMT 90 4wd. If he uses KMT90 4wd gear box rear diff offset has to be changed to right which is cumbersome and if the off set is changed by welding grinding etc it is not safe

Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan

Vinod, not necessarily. The offset depends on the transfer case. If you have Borg Warner with BA-10, He can use current rear diff. If its is T18 with BA-10 it will be right offset, i have BA-10 with T-18 (Most Probably) look at the below picture

Attachment 230730

Now look at Beboy's setup, Though its a NGT 530, dimensions are equivalent to BA-10. He has a Borg Warner hence rear diff is almost center (Slightly Left Offset)

Attachment 230732


Ideally this is the Best he can do, or he can use the BA-10 and change the last part of the 2WD GB and attach a Borg Warner Xfercase, and save the money of rear diff assembly.

@ Sreeraj, I suggested a KMT90 setup as it is more economical, rugged and reliable, It is easier to make propeller shaft than fabricate linkages for the T-Case, or source a Borg-Warner T-Case & Adapter for BA10, or T-18 Adapter for BA10/NGT520/NGT530.

@ 4x4Addict
Armada 2WD/4WD Rear Diff - Center Diff
Grand 2WD/4WD Rear Diff - Left Off-Set
Bolero 2WD/4WD Rear Diff - Left Off-Set

@Vinod, the differential's are assembled in the same process of grinding and welding, I'm using an Switch-Over Diff in my MM540XD, since Jan 2009 with Auto Lockers, no problems so far.

You have to know your mods or the right guys to get this done.

incidentally the differential tubes are press fitted into the diff-housing and roseatte welded, how difficult is that?

If "Powertrain" decides to use a KMT90+T18, the propeller shaft will run from Right (T-Case) to Left (Differential).

But since this is a 106" Wheel Base he can just about manage it
or
Change the rear differential to M&M FJ van 58" Track with a Centre Diff. to get a slightly shallower Drive-Line angle. (8K)

Regards,

Arka

[powertrain]

Originally Posted by trammway

It is very much possible. You need the following items to convert your Armada Grand into 4WD vehicle

Thanks brother for all your help !!!!!!!!!!
My question is where do i find all the hardware?????? I'm not much of a mechanical fellow, but i'm all set to gets my hands dirty !!!In Mumbai, theres a place called Kurla where my mechanic says you can get all the items but the reliablity is directly proportional to your luck !!! Can Mumbai Jeepers confirm? Trammway, Can these parts be sourced from Chennai or nearby Chennai. I dont mind the trouble if you dont ????!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by beejay

Any specific reason for zeroing in on the Grand?

I chose the Grand cause i wanted a closed body, as it will be used to ferry my staff at my factory site near Mumbai. Alternatively, i'm also looking at the MM Marshal 4wd

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Powertrain,

1) Gearbox - use KMT90+18 + Bell Housing for XD3P (18-20K)

2) Front Differential (Closed Knuckle or OKBJ)
a) Closed Knuckle I would recommend the 58" Track and used the 2WD Steering Knuckle and brakes used in the M&M FC Van. (8K)
b) OKBJ 57" Track - Maxx/Bolero 4WD. (20K)

3) Rear-Differential - Keep the 2WD rear Diff. That is common to all Armada Grand & Bolero

4) Diff-Ratio - Change the differential Ratio to 5.38:1 front and Back and Use 31/32/33" Tyres. (3Kx2= 6K)

5) Propeller Shaft - You will have to make custom prop-shafts which cost about 1.5-4K each (Front & Rear)

Regards,

Arka

Thanks Arka, but i have some queries. It would be helpful if ypu could shed some light -
1. Is'nt KMT 90 a 4+1 gerabox & BA10 a 5+1 gearbox? We had an Armada back in '95 & i remember my dad complaining abt it. Any specific reason For recommending the KMT 90?
2. Where can i make custom prop-shafts ?

Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan

Vinod, not necessarily. The offset depends on the transfer case. If you have Borg Warner with BA-10, He can use current rear diff. If its is T18 with BA-10 it will be right offset, i have BA-10 with T-18 (Most Probably) look at the below picture

Sree, thanks for all those pics. It gave me perspective of things to be done. Althought the tech jargons are confusing, i have not abandoned the idea!!!!!!!!But where do i find competent mechanics for this job. Dudus, please help !!!!!!!! Does anybody know good garages where it can be done?????

[trammway]

Originally Posted by powertrain

Thanks brother for all your help !!!!!!!!!!
My question is where do i find all the hardware?????? I'm not much of a mechanical fellow, but i'm all set to gets my hands dirty !!!In Mumbai, theres a place called Kurla where my mechanic says you can get all the items but the reliablity is directly proportional to your luck !!! Can Mumbai Jeepers confirm? Trammway, Can these parts be sourced from Chennai or nearby Chennai. I dont mind the trouble if you dont ????!!!!!!!

Absolutely no problem, however it is not so hard to find it from Mumbai itself. The new items could be sourced from Atlas motors in Grant road.

If you approach Mr.Prakash in Atlas motors he may help you getting used ones too.

I suggested to change the rear diff as the manual transfercase (T18) attached to BA-10 needs the diff to be on the right hand side. The same has been explained by Sree with pictures. There are BogWarner Transfer case as well which has the rear propeller shaft running from center of it. But I think most or all of the BW are center mounted propeller shaft for rear drive.

Why I did I suggest BA10 because it is smoother and considering the Armada Grand which normally used as family vehicle, needs noiseless and smoother operation.

What if we use KMT-90, it is good and going to make foolproof 4WD operations and make the cost cut by 20K. Driving comfort ?

If your vehicle is a Short or Mid Jeep, no 2nd opinion KMT90 is the best.

BA-10 or KMT90 it is your call.

going for rear differntial with 5.38.1 ratio also makes the vehicle crawl good, but highway cruising goes for task. So stick with 4.88.1 which is best with XD3P engine.

Getting the parts from chennai is bit tricky if you are looking at BA10 as it has most probable chances that the BA-10 Aluminium gearbox get damaged in transit in the transport companies. Try getting it in Mumbai itself.

I forgot to refer you to GTO's Classic service center, in all the possibilities they should have clearer idea and you may end up stricking brand new companents at a good price too.

Remember if you wanted to use your existing gearbox (BA-10 without transfercase), It may turn stressful to find parts as you may need to change the main shaft to accomodate the transfercase and also the casting that sits between the transfercase and gearbox needs to be sourced.

The only hope for you is that, you live in Mumbai so you may actually get it as Mahindra's homeland is Mumbai. Try meeting your friend at Vorli to get some details.

[Suresh Stephen]

Armada Grand 2wd has independant front suspension (correct me if iam wrong) and 4wd has leaf spring suspension. It will be a pain to convert. NOT WORTH IT
Suresh

[trammway]

@Suresh Stephen,

I was reading the specs of 2WD Grand and front axle is Dead Tubular and Stabilizer bar with an elliptical leaf spring what it had mentioned.

[dinar]

Originally Posted by Suresh Stephen

Armada Grand 2wd has independant front suspension (correct me if iam wrong) and 4wd has leaf spring suspension. It will be a pain to convert. NOT WORTH IT
Suresh

The bolero was the first vehicle from mahindra to have front independent suspension, the Armada and Armada grand both came with leaf springs even on the 2wd models.