Handling with Torsion Bar Set up in Scorpio/Safari 4x4

4x4addict · 21st February 2010, 12:49

One thing I noticed after driving my Scorpio 4x4 for about a 1000 km was that the 4x4 handles better than the 2WD. Was discussing this with jjoyeb and we think it is because the torsion bar set up is more rigid set up and helps with handling by reducing the body roll/floating effect.

@spike or @behramji can either of you opine if the 4x4 will have better road handling than the 2WD Scorp due to the torsion bar set up? Though I have not driving the Safari 4WD extensively I wonder if this is the case with Safari too.

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 21st February 2010, 19:26

@4x4 addict as far as scorpio 4wd is considered yes you are correct, the torsion bar setup improves the handling characteristics of the car (your cornering becomes tighter in a torsion bar setup as it hold the vehicle longitudinally for a greater length), the coil springs are good in case of axial loads but when exposed to lateral loads (lateral load transfer) they give away, regarding 4wd safari i am not sure of what suspension setup it runs on, will have a look and then comment.

Spike

P.S. There are two types of torsion bar setups available with M&M, a longer and a shorter one (mountings are also different), Thar is also equipped with one of these, any guesses guys which one?

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 21st February 2010, 22:35

Dear 4*4 addict - yes, you are correct. The torsion bar setup has come out very well. The main reason why a torsion bar delivers better result is that the effectivity of the front suspension extends way beyond midpoint of the wheelbase, so it plays a complimenting role to the rear suspension also. The Kijang (our Qualis) uses torsion bars attached to the upper control arm. It too handles beautifully.

By the way, have you driven the latest 2 wheel drive Scorpio? Drive it and let us know.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

DirtyDan · 21st February 2010, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR;1744367...
P.S. There are two types of torsion bar setups available with M&M, a longer and a shorter one (mountings are also different), Thar is also equipped with one of these, [B

any guesses guys which one?[/b]

The good one?....just a guess here...dont want to over extend myself.

By the way, which is the good one? Why?

Sutripta · 21st February 2010, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

[b][u]The main reason why a torsion bar delivers better result is that the effectivity of the front suspension extends way beyond midpoint of the wheelbase, so it plays a complimenting role to the rear suspension also....

Behram Dhabhar

Sir,
Could you please explain it in a way we can understand.

Regards
Sutripta

headers · 26th February 2010, 08:38

DB Sir, any pictures to illustrate that better. Get a vague feeling but pics do help in better understanding!

Sutripta · 26th February 2010, 22:46

^^^
Pictures will show the same thing you will see if you stick your head under a 4x4 Scorpio or Safari. What is needed are clear explanations. Esp, since I'm all at sea on this one

Regards
Sutripta

.anshuman · 2nd March 2010, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

By the way, have you driven the latest 2 wheel drive Scorpio? Drive it and let us know.

Are there any changes to the suspension in the latest 2wd? I drive a pre-facelift M-Hawk the Handling is better compared to the previous CRDe.

What about the Ride, does the it get better with torsion setup in 4wd?

mooza · 6th December 2010, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

The Kijang (our Qualis) uses torsion bars attached to the upper control arm. It too handles beautifully.

By the way, have you driven the latest 2 wheel drive Scorpio? Drive it and let us know.

Behraam saab, I guess the experiences of a fellow BHPian on the thread below answers your unanswered question

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...r-scorpio.html

Another query.

Can the torsion bar set up be retrofitted by M & M on the leaf spring and coil spring Scorpios as an option ? I wonder what could be the costs involved.

Lukeskywalker · 6th December 2010, 08:34

This was a question I was pondering as well, I have stuck my head underneath my Safari many times when it was hoisted up for service/washing etc. and tried to figure out the suspension system, the torsion bar in the Safari too extends almost beyond the mid car length, explanation in layman's terms about how this helps handling will be appreciated.

jeepster · 6th December 2010, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

P.S. There are two types of torsion bar setups available with M&M, a longer and a shorter one (mountings are also different), Thar is also equipped with one of these, any guesses guys which one?

i would say a shorter one.

4x4addict · 6th December 2010, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepster

i would say a shorter one.

I would say longer one to give better articulation and allow for lifting the suspension. Spike, stop teasing and give us the answer

...

NFS · 22nd December 2010, 18:05

Respected BHPians, in another thread GTO says handling is better in 2wd with IFS front suspension. Here we are talking about better handling with 4x4 torsion bar setup. Please shed some light in the interest of newbie 4x4 enthusiasts.

Thread reference here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2180480

21st February 2010, 12:49	#1
4x4addict Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,483 Thanked: 4,531 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (5)	Handling with Torsion Bar Set up in Scorpio/Safari 4x4 One thing I noticed after driving my Scorpio 4x4 for about a 1000 km was that the 4x4 handles better than the 2WD. Was discussing this with jjoyeb and we think it is because the torsion bar set up is more rigid set up and helps with handling by reducing the body roll/floating effect. @spike or @behramji can either of you opine if the 4x4 will have better road handling than the 2WD Scorp due to the torsion bar set up? Though I have not driving the Safari 4WD extensively I wonder if this is the case with Safari too.
	() Thanks

21st February 2010, 19:26	#2
SPIKE ARRESTOR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,854 Thanked: 1,532 Times	Torsion bar setup @4x4 addict as far as scorpio 4wd is considered yes you are correct, the torsion bar setup improves the handling characteristics of the car (your cornering becomes tighter in a torsion bar setup as it hold the vehicle longitudinally for a greater length), the coil springs are good in case of axial loads but when exposed to lateral loads (lateral load transfer) they give away, regarding 4wd safari i am not sure of what suspension setup it runs on, will have a look and then comment. Spike P.S. There are two types of torsion bar setups available with M&M, a longer and a shorter one (mountings are also different), Thar is also equipped with one of these, any guesses guys which one?
	() Thanks

21st February 2010, 22:35	#3
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,353 Times	*Dear 44 addict** - yes, you are correct. The torsion bar setup has come out very well. The main reason why a torsion bar delivers better result is that the effectivity of the front suspension extends way beyond midpoint of the wheelbase, so it plays a complimenting role to the rear suspension also. The Kijang (our Qualis) uses torsion bars attached to the upper control arm. It too handles beautifully. By the way, have you driven the latest 2 wheel drive Scorpio? Drive it and let us know. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

26th February 2010, 08:38	#6
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	DB Sir, any pictures to illustrate that better. Get a vague feeling but pics do help in better understanding!
	() Thanks

26th February 2010, 22:46	#7
Sutripta Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,668 Thanked: 6,217 Times	^^^ Pictures will show the same thing you will see if you stick your head under a 4x4 Scorpio or Safari. What is needed are clear explanations. Esp, since I'm all at sea on this one Regards Sutripta
	() Thanks

6th December 2010, 08:34	#10
Lukeskywalker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,397 Thanked: 1,243 Times View My Garage	This was a question I was pondering as well, I have stuck my head underneath my Safari many times when it was hoisted up for service/washing etc. and tried to figure out the suspension system, the torsion bar in the Safari too extends almost beyond the mid car length, explanation in layman's terms about how this helps handling will be appreciated.
	() Thanks

22nd December 2010, 18:05	#13
NFS BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 185 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	Re: Handling with Torsion Bar Set up in Scorpio/Safari 4x4 Respected BHPians, in another thread GTO says handling is better in 2wd with IFS front suspension. Here we are talking about better handling with 4x4 torsion bar setup. Please shed some light in the interest of newbie 4x4 enthusiasts. Thread reference here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2180480
	() Thanks