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-   -   The Gypsy that started it all! ~ Spidey! (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-vehicles/109332-gypsy-started-all-spidey-4.html)

If overall reduction in ratio is there, won't it help in low revs for a low rpm low torque engine? Since ac zaps more power? But yes if its limited to only low ratio then it will not help in city. I think Guru is referring to former?

Edit: the ones on spidey and other gypsy I mentioned offers reduction in both low and high. Iirc high is about 10-12%

Vikram / Jaggu - I was under the impression the crawler ratios lower the gear ratios in all gears in 2WD, 4L and 4H. Is this assumption incorrect? If not - then the load of the ac will be offset.

Guru you are correct, the ones that we use does reduce in high ratio also by ~ 10% Khan knows the exact numbers. That is why i said it will definitely help, before the Yoko MT with Treps, Spidey was like a street dragster till about 60-70 kmph.

So once again, go for it. Its one mod really worth the paisaa. But i always thought you had the crawler kit on Geoff?

No I didn't have it Jaggu and I am a bit upset that I never got round to installing it because I was worried about the reliability of the transfer case mounts and axles when the combination of crawler and locker is used.

Now that the lockers are out, I feel I can try the crawlers out so I know the pros and cons of each mod. I cannot live with the Gypsy on a day-to-day basis with the lockers installed...I managed for 2 years but it has become very difficult so I removed the lockers.

Plus it is a lot less embarrassing to get stuck without lockers :) Everyone seems to have this impression that you cannot get stuck if you have lockers installed!

I really missed the crawler ratios during the Bangalore OTR. No excuses for showing up with a well used/worn clutch...but I feel I could have lasted longer if I had a softer suspension and crawler ratios.

Oh ok, unless you are absolutely stuck and pushing it beyond reason the mounts wont break. Even stock gypsy pops these mounts. Just keep a pair in the vehicle and ensure you ask service to check/replace at every service.

Stuck bit- Tell me about it moment people see a modified vehicle there expectations goes up like zillion times! They dont realize nature is the bigger boss out there :)

So did you put an upgraded clutch plate? If so please share detais, that is something i want to do when its time to update.

Here you go Jaggu, Guru & Vikram.
Suzuki Samurai Transfer Case

I guess, spidey has a 4.16 crawler set and that means, a 12% reduction in high.

Cheers,
Deepak

Not yet Jaggu. I wouldn't mind - I think the clutch is the weak point in slower trails like the Bangalore OTR where you don't have track to get some run-up. I burnt the clutch at the entry to a flat rock climb which had a big rock right before it. Had to go slow over the rock and I was already looking at a steep climb with zero momentum. This is the second time I've burnt a clutch in that situation. I don't have the heart to slam over the preceding rocks just to get the momentum.

Same obstacle the CJ3B with NDMS just walked. People expect lockers to help here but they are pointless until you put one of the rear wheels up in the air. I could hear the guys in the CJ3B behind me commenting "But this guy has lockers....whisper whisper whisper".

Now I may be a rubbish driver and there is not much I can do to change that but I think crawler ratios will shift the rubbish bits a little further away and give me more room to make my mistakes and still make it out.

Now you know the kind of crap Gurkha drivers get every time they are stuck. :) They have front and rear manual diff locks.

This is one of the advantages of remaining on open diff. When you get stuck, and then self winch out of the mess, nobody thinks less of you.:D

I have Centreforce DF clutch on mine since the last 2 years. Expensive but very good gripping ability.

Thanks and how much are these? Are they easily procurable in India?

Neville - eagerly looking forward to more info on these w.r.t procurement details, price and more!

Did you evaluate any other options as well to study pros and cons?

Not sure if they are available in India. I ordered mine from RRO and had a friend carry them for me from the US. They were for USD 225.

I too am actively looking to plonk in reduction gears. Can you tell what the reduction in top speed post fitting the x'fer case reduction gears is?

Yes, Petroworks make a similar HD clutch for the samurais, but that is slightly harder per feedback from the samurai community in the states. The Centreforce has a very soft feel to it, infact softer than stock.

Jaggu - I use special racing springs for my Ninja 650R with the stock plates and the results are pretty amazing. Perhaps using stronger springs will increase clutch life and performance as opposed to a complete clutch plate - pressure plate swap?

This depends on what tyre & what ratio you choose. For a 235 size tyre & a 4.16 ratio, your top speed will be ~120 kmph.

Out of this 120, you will reach ~80 quicker than any comparable 4 wheeler of similar engine capacity & even more. From 100-120 will take time.

Do note that reduction gear do put additional stress on all components of the driveline -- if driven hard. Things to watch out for would be your star joints, t-case mounts. Also, how efficient your propeller shafts are setup (backlash in crown pinion), the play they have, will determine how much the stresses will be.

Thanks for the detailed response. I will not exceed 215s and a 4.16 ratio. One more question, by star joints are you referring to the Universal Joints?