Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st February 2019, 23:25   #1
BHPian
 
pedrolourenco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Margao, Goa
Posts: 926
Thanked: 709 Times
Default Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Going by the number of threads and posts on TBHP, it's quite clear that 4x4 Offroading is quite popular and increasing day by day. But when it comes to buying a 4x4 vehicle there doesn't seem to be much choice in India. Some may argue that there are plenty of choices but if you look carefully, most options are the expensive (30L & above SUV's) which the majority of us cannot afford and even if we can afford, we are unlikely to take those vehicles off-roading. So if we eliminate those vehicles, what do we have?
- Mahindra Thar (Di & CRDe).
- Maruti Gypsy (Now discontinued but a few still available with dealers)
- Mahindra Bolero (only high roof variant and that too quite a challenge to get the dealer to sell you one).
- Mahindra Bolero Camper (with yellow board).
- Mahindra Scorpio.
- Mahindra Getaway.
- Isuzu V-Cross.
- Isuzu D-Max single cab 4x4 (with yellow board).
- Renault Duster AWD.
- Force Gurkha
- Tata Hexa.
- Jeep Compass.

Not really a line up that will make enthusiasts smile. Infact the last 3 though sub 30L are unlikely to be taken off-road by their owners. Also not sure about the Fortunner, Santa Fe and Alturas G4 pricing but I'm guessing they are close to 30L if not more.

What manufacturers can provide us but for some strange reason won't:
- Hyundai Creta 4x4.
- Tata Hexa Truck 4x4.
- Toyota Hilux / Tacoma
- Ssangyon Rexton Sports Pick Up.
- Ford Ranger.
- Nissan Navarra.
- India Specific Gypsy replacement (Based on the Brezza).
- Mahindra Imperio dual cab 4x4 (white board).
- Tata Xenon 4x4 (Relaunch).
- Toyota FJ.

Now some will say that there is no market for these vehicles so manufacturers wont launch. Well if you don't sell them how do you expect people to buy. Going by this logic Isuzu should not have launched the V-Cross. It's not too difficult for manufacturers to launch as most of these are already sold in other countries and many of them share a lot of parts with vehicles already sold in India. So it's not like they have to invest huge amounts. Now how difficult is it to use the Scorpio 4x4 running gear in the Imperio?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by SmartCat : 22nd February 2019 at 00:24. Reason: Removed Harrier
pedrolourenco is offline   (20) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st February 2019, 23:48   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 432
Thanked: 428 Times
Default

I am with you on this. There is no reasonably priced 4x4 out there which you can actually buy and not worry about.

Being the market leaders it is the prerogative of Maruti to lead the pack. But alas years after years after years they have failed to offer a decent 4x4 in any of their popular CUV / SUV.

Same for other manufacturers too, but for me it is the failure of the leader to lead.
Traveler is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 00:04   #3
BHPian
 
Blooming Flower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Mysore, Kolkata
Posts: 130
Thanked: 662 Times
Default re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

AFAIK, Tata Harrier doesn't belong to 4x4 or AWD category. There is also high doubt for future inclusion of AWD version. A bit surprised to see it in the list when enthusiasts of 4x4 segment really wanted at least an AWD option for Harrier from the core of their heart. Hope, Tata launches it sooner and take the cues from the last part of your post.

Last edited by Blooming Flower : 22nd February 2019 at 00:05.
Blooming Flower is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 00:13   #4
BHPian
 
pedrolourenco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Margao, Goa
Posts: 926
Thanked: 709 Times
Default re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooming Flower View Post
AFAIK, Tata Harrier doesn't belong to 4x4 or AWD category. There is also high doubt for future inclusion of AWD version. A bit surprised to see it in the list when enthusiasts of 4x4 segment really wanted at least an AWD option for Harrier from the core of their heart. Hope, Tata launches it sooner and take the cues from the last part of your post.
Thanks for pointing it out. I thought there was a 4x4 version available.
Requesting other members to make any additions/deletions/changes to the list I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
There is no reasonably priced 4x4 out there which you can actually buy and not worry about.
True. Everything available is either overpriced or under specced.

Last edited by pedrolourenco : 22nd February 2019 at 00:16.
pedrolourenco is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 00:21   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Samba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,171
Thanked: 8,428 Times
Default re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Going by the number of threads and posts on TBHP, it's quite clear that 4x4 Offroading is quite popular and increasing day by day.
Please do not go by the increase in number you see in Team Bhp. If common buyers had the mindset of Team-Bhpians then Fiat would have been in a great position by now!

The actual scenario is different. Out of 100 Scorpio's or Duster's, how many 4wd do we spot?
More than 95% of them are 2wd.

Who are the target customers for a 4wd?

Those who go for trips or camping to remote places.
Those who go for off-road events.

The percentage of the above people are very less. More than 95% of the vehicles in today's date do not see such adventures! So companies wont bother much for the buyers of the remaining 5%.

Now those who love to go for off-road events, most of them settle for a Thar, Gypsy or build a jeep.

The companies know this mindset very well.

Couple of examples-

Earlier Scorpio 4wd was available in the base S4+ variant, Duster AWD was available in the RXL variant, but now they are only available in their top variants. When we go to buy a 4wd, we hardly get any discounts. Duster 2wd has huge discounts going on whereas they hardly give much discount on the AWD.

This is because the company guys know that, the customers who come for a 4wd will buy it anyhow! So they take that advantage.

Unless the requirement for the 4wd is spread among common people, we wont get much options.

Maruti understands the mindset of Indian buyers the most. Result ? They do not offer a single 4wd in today's date! They know, it wont bring them volume!

Hope the mindset changes and we get better option's in the next 5 years. The silver lining is, people are moving from sedans to crossovers! So lets hope in the next phase 4wd's will become more popular.

Last edited by Samba : 22nd February 2019 at 00:49.
Samba is offline   (30) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 00:39   #6
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: India
Posts: 11,414
Thanked: 28,882 Times
Default re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
I thought there was a 4x4 version available.
Harrier, IMHO is the worst recent example of this scenario -

Take a Land Rover architecture.
Claim sky high about its legendary offroading pedigree.
Give it features like Terrain Response System, Hold Descent Control etc.

Only to launch it as a FWD vehicle with no AWD coming in the near future. On top of it - claim that 4WD is not in the pipeline as the FWD is capable enough.

Hyundai did the blasphemy of calling Creta - the perfect SUV. Never imagined TATA (With its Safari / Hexa DNA) will do much worse.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 22nd February 2019 at 09:05. Reason: Grammer
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (24) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 01:32   #7
Distinguished - BHPian
 
BlackPearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calcutta/London
Posts: 2,600
Thanked: 6,688 Times
Default re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Adding to the points you have mentioned -

1. Tata and Mahindra, for some strange reason, do not provide 4x4/AWD options in the lower trim levels. If they had provided, I am convinced there would have been a lot more 4x4 Safari and Scorpios on the road. I would have bought the Safari Storme LX 4x4 in 2014 if there was an option. Previously Mahindra used to have LX and S4 versions of Scorpio with 4x4, but I think someone from Tata joined them and changed the policy

2. Suzuki should have launched the Jimny in India. Maruti can sell everything in India. If the barebones Gypsy with its back-breaking ride quality could sell so many, I am sure there would be a lot of takers for the Jimny.

3. Even if the market for 4wd vehicles is small, if people had the option I believe a lot of them would buy them. Awareness is increasing, thanks to "Tame the Terrain" kind of initiatives. Isuzu v-cross is selling quite well compared to what people in general had thought it would. That too in-spite of the negative mindset of the people regarding vehicles with loading bays.

4. In our circle of friends, there were hardly any 4WD vehicle about 6 or 7 years back. One or two of us bought and started doing trips to exotic places where 2WDs cannot go.

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-dsc_8835.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-photo-sumitro.jpg

Then we started weekend off-roading for fun.

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-19402251_1596916430380244_2319241338274047310_o.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-12715295_10156525604185223_6260872021884237520_n.jpg

And now there are huge number of 4WDs in the groups and some people even have 2 or 3 4WDs in their garage!

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-18527040_10155050515376999_8440015355048501681_o.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-fb_img_1466967256138.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-fb_img_1469569417450.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-fb_img_1485968383835.jpg

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-fb_img_1491117805829.jpg

What I am trying to say is that there is a market out there and with a bit of push a lot of people will start enjoying the benefits of having a 4WD/AWD in their garage. For that the companies have to educate the sales people not to try to sell S-Cross or Kizashi when a customer goes to their showroom to buy a Gypsy or a Grand Vitara. They have to stop asking dumb questions like "Sir what will you do with a 4WD in Kolkata?" I still have hope that things will change as more and more people become aware and team-bhp is an awesome place to start that awareness!

Before parting, a pic of our beloved 4WDs -

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-13717192_1133752890029936_2284629497778957844_o.jpg


Edit: a few rectifications to your post-

1. Tata Harrier does not have 4WD/AWD option yet
2. Bolero 4x4 is available without the high roof version


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samba View Post

Earlier Scorpio 4wd was available in the base S4+ variant, Duster AWD was available in the RXL variant, but now they are only available in their top variants. When we go to buy a 4wd, we hardly get any discounts. Duster 2wd has huge discounts going on whereas they hardly give much discount on the AWD.

This is because the company guys know that, the customers who come for a 4wd will buy it anyhow! So they take that advantage.
That is short sightedness on part of the companies. Take my example, in 2014 I had the budget to buy a Storme 4x4 if it was available in LX trim. But the VX 4x4 was out of budget. So what did I do? Bought the Thar and spent some money on sprucing it up

Last edited by BlackPearl : 22nd February 2019 at 01:37.
BlackPearl is offline   (39) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 08:02   #8
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 52,366
Thanked: 122,790 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

I'm going to take a contrarian view. 4x4s & AWDs constitute perhaps 0.1% of car sales in India. Despite that, we have a good number of options, spanning across budgets. When I got into offroading, there were broadly 2 options = Classic or Gypsy. Both impossible for daily use. Today, you have a lot more. A 4x4 Jeep that's also usable on the highway and with an air-con + power steering? Yes. Want to carry 7 in better comfort? Yes (Scorpio + Safari + Hexa). An AWD with exceptional ride comfort = Duster AWD. Something fast & capable = Compass. Got 60 lakhs to spend? Get the best offroader in the world = the Wrangler!

Quote:
Hyundai Creta 4x4
Sedan-based. Too delicate. Built for tarmac.

Quote:
Tata Hexa Truck 4x4
Toyota Hilux / Tacoma
Ssangyon Rexton Sports Pick Up
No market for pickup trucks in India

Quote:
India Specific Gypsy replacement
. Us civilians & the Army could definitely use one! Jimny?
GTO is offline   (19) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 08:51   #9
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 11,533
Thanked: 5,729 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

IMO, one of the reasons for lesser number of 4x4's is the pricing-vs-configuration. Example: The 4x4 Storme is available only in the top end. That's 18L. If it had been available in the lower end LX, then we would have seen many more. On the other hand, a Thar is available in 4x4, but soft top/not very comfortable compared to the XUV / Storme.

But yes - the question remains- Why ? Why dont manufacturers give us the 4x4's ? They did not do it till now. Now the regulations are changing, the traffic density is much higher, and focus is on smaller vehicles & soon, electrics
condor is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 09:10   #10
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 5,073
Thanked: 5,139 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

I would say it is ok for pseudo-SUVs not to have 4x4 or AWD; I believe they sell due to the cross over body-style and relatively high GC.
But for the capable off-roading machines, I would say it will be better if the manufacturers start giving AWD models from the base trim itself. Many of the AWD enthusiasts most probably won’t be bothered about having a fancy touch screen or admiring the ambient lighting during their off-road expeditions.
vb-san is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 09:26   #11
Senior - BHPian
 
Mr.Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Madras
Posts: 2,109
Thanked: 2,825 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Now some will say that there is no market for these vehicles so manufacturers wont launch. Well if you don't sell them how do you expect people to buy.
We couldn't rule out this answer. Volume plays a vital role in deciding the product. We have the facts and figures of how many 4x4s or AWDs that is sold annually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
Going by this logic Isuzu should not have launched the V-Cross.
These are the cases where the void is getting filled, like how toyota entered our market with mid segment vehicles though they had small cars globally. But the other case is what other product did isuzu had / have to launch in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrolourenco View Post
It's not too difficult for manufacturers to launch as most of these are already sold in other countries and many of them share a lot of parts with vehicles already sold in India. So it's not like they have to invest huge amounts.
That's actually a huge investment to sell those variants at a competitive pricing S-Cross AWD is sold globally. To produce the same variant here, it calls for a huge investment in terms of development, validation, supply chain, etc. End of the day the sales volume may not justify the investment payback. If they were imported (either as CBU or KD) price may go close to 20L on-road, are we ready to pay? Leave apart S-Cross, same applies for other manufacturers / models

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samba View Post
Please do not go by the increase in number you see in Team Bhp. If common buyers had the mindset of Team-Bhpians then Fiat would have been in a great position by now!
well said
Mr.Boss is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 09:52   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 416
Thanked: 782 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

I will give a perspective from end user.
  1. We are middle class country. We value our hard earned money and will like to put the money on a vehicle that is used for utility purpose and "Need" and not "pleasure".
  2. Even if it is for pleasure, it is limited to going an outing for a weekend or a couple of days to fairly long journey(2000+ Average travel distance in Kms).
  3. We have cars that has more than 2 lakhs kms on their odo. Only reason to replace parts is when they go damaged beyond repair.
  4. Even if some part MUST be replaced due to ageing and has to be replaced, we will prefer going to open market and purchase duplicates and replace and not go to Dealers because they are costly
  5. And our mindset and reality is, vehicles that are used for Off roading will lose its longevity and few parts are bound to get damaged.
  6. When we struggle to replace parts that are damaged due to ageing, who will have the pleasure to go to off-roading deliberately to damage the hard earned car and replace parts ?

With the above mindset, we (read Urban and plain land citizens)do not have a reason to go for off-roading. Therefore, we think 4*4 is NOT a NECESSITY.

Coming to Hill-side people, they find off-roading and hill climb/descent as their part of life NEED and NOT as Pleasure AT ALL. Hence, if we see the stats, major sale of the 4*4 would be around in hilly areas.

Inference: Since the NEED for 4*4 is only to serve a purpose and NOT OFF-ROADING perse, No. of 4*4 buyers in luxury segment is very less and manufacturers have understood the centiments of our people and hence, the options are very less.

Last edited by gkveda : 22nd February 2019 at 09:54.
gkveda is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 10:12   #13
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,870
Thanked: 12,886 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm going to take a contrarian view. 4x4s & AWDs constitute perhaps 0.1% of car sales in India. Despite that, we have a good number of options, spanning across budgets.
There is a concept in the average car buyer's mind that 4x4 systems are complicated and horribly expensive to maintain, prone to faster breakdowns, and not really worth the extra money to buy. Also, the average car buyer cannot distinguish between the various 4x4 systems (Driving all four wheels: how is it done?) - in fact, plenty of people don't even know whether the car they drive is FWD or RWD. In such a scenario, can we really expect big numbers of 4x4 sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
No market for pickup trucks in India
Tata is probably thinking otherwise...

Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?-tata-yodha-4x4.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
. Us civilians & the Army could definitely use one! Jimny?
The Jimny is a unique 4x4 package without any alternative. The day MSIL brings it to India, I'm sure there will be a flood of bookings from enthusiasts.
SS-Traveller is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 11:37   #14
BHPian
 
vigneshkumar31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delhi
Posts: 288
Thanked: 1,213 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

Two omissions in the list.

Tata Safari Storme VX 4X4
Mahindra XUV5OO AWD
vigneshkumar31 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2019, 11:47   #15
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 139
Thanked: 171 Times
Default Re: Why are 4x4 enthusiasts given step-motherly treatment in India?

I think or I read somewhere that Ford exports the 4WD or actually AWD Ecosport with B&O Audio to US which is fully made in India. Now I know AWD doesn't count as true-blue 4WD but I would have gone for this eyes closed if it was available.

Wonder what's holding Ford off releasing this product in our market?

Last edited by jagzrk : 22nd February 2019 at 11:48.
jagzrk is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car driving lessons step by step vipulG Technical Stuff 21 16th August 2017 06:58
Palio Spare Parts Prices and TATA Service network step motherly treatment rao_battula Indian Car Dealerships 28 30th June 2014 12:36
Why do diesel engine variants get step-motherly treatment from manufacturers? GTO The Indian Car Scene 127 26th February 2011 17:04
D series mini me head swap step by step!and turbos done.. nitroxx Modifications & Accessories 6 10th March 2007 22:49


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 04:36.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks