[Gasolinejunkie]

Originally Posted by indra_slk

I need to buy a pure off roader in the range of 30 to 70 lacks. It will mostly be used on sand dunes and fields. Can anyone recommend me a proper 4x4 with low ratio. I have tried everything, Cayenne's, X5, ML 320, Q7 but none of these are proper 4x4's and was not impressed by their off road ability. Now my mind is gone on the montero. Is it a better off roader?(Note: my main use is on SAND AND FIELDS).

If you want a PURE off-roader buy ANYTHING with a low-range gearbox and centre diff locks and get it customised with a suspension lift, F & R diff locks, good bulbar and appropriate tyres. If you want it for sand dunning I would recommend Petrol V8 or V6 power over turbo-diesel torque.

Personally a good off-roader is something I can trash around and if I cough up 50lakh for an SUV I’d be very hesitant to do any hardcore off-roading with it. Even with my 93 Pajero I’ve only just overcome the fear of getting it scratched when I go into the bush, and I’m still very very scared of rolling it.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Gasolinejunkie

Personally a good off-roader is something I can trash around and if I cough up 50lakh for an SUV I’d be very hesitant to do any hardcore off-roading with it.

Absolutely. I don't think twice before letting my Jeep slide & dash sideways against a tree; I'm terrified just at the thought of doing that in a Montero / Landcruiser! An offroader is built to be trashed....dents, brushes and body damage should be the least of your worries when out there in the wilderness.

Nice pics, eyedoc. How about some real offroading pictures now? Also, we'd love to have a long-term ownership review of your Montero experience.

[desertfox]

There is no vehicle which can match the off road capability of the new Toyota Prado with the 4000 cc V6 IGRFE Petrol engine.

It beats the Landcruiser, Pajero, Jeep Wrangler hands down. We are talking of the 4 door LWB version.

As for the SWB version, only the FJ Cruiser ever gave it any competition on the sand dunes.

THis vehicle is a full time 4WD with central diff lock, rear LSD and low transfer case.

Priced at about Rs. 45 Lakhs in India ( Rs. 17 Lakhs in the UAE ) there is hardly an off road vehicle that can match it, and it drives like a car on City roads. The best that can be.

Here's a picture from my desert rally book in 2006 where I drove a Prado 4 L ( Landcruiser 120 NG ) VX, and some SWB Pajeros at play during a photo session for this booklet.

[4x4addict]

DessertFox:

The Prado has been around for a couple of years now. Can you please explain why the Landcruiser 100 series is the preferred vehicle for the people who operate dessert safaris?

[desertfox]

Manual gears - suitable more for daily offroad use, sturdier built, bigger car, can seat seven pax easily, dual fuel tanks against only ne in many prados.

Safaris go on a fixed route where even a 3000 cc vehicle like Pajero will do well.

A Prado owner will go to Liwa on a weekend.

Safari drivers prefer manual vehicles. prados hardly come in Manual.

Prado if used daily in the desert will develop tie rod and axle problems, besides body rattle. It is the weekend offroading car.

But main reason is the space and reputation - why all other safari companies used landcruiser before a Prados off roading capabilites were really discovered in 1999.

First it was Landcruiser 80, then thousands of Landcruiser 100 and now the preferred vehicle is Landcruiser 200 GX with the same 1GR-FE 4000 cc engine.

The earlier 4500 cc engine produced great torque at low rpm ( 2200 to 2500 and the torque curve was flat over a longer time on serious dune climbs. THis was also a reason for this vehicle establishing itself in the safari business.

Why not a Nissan Patrol ?

Only single tank
No twin A/C units
No fridge
Rear seat right on the wheels hence bumpy
Heavier fuel consumption

[Parm]

Originally Posted by desertfox

There is no vehicle which can match the off road capability of the new Toyota Prado with the 4000 cc V6 IGRFE Petrol engine.

It beats the Landcruiser, Pajero, Jeep Wrangler hands down. We are talking of the 4 door LWB version.

As for the SWB version, only the FJ Cruiser ever gave it any competition on the sand dunes.

THis vehicle is a full time 4WD with central diff lock, rear LSD and low transfer case.

Priced at about Rs. 45 Lakhs in India ( Rs. 17 Lakhs in the UAE ) there is hardly an off road vehicle that can match it, and it drives like a car on City roads. The best that can be.

Here's a picture from my desert rally book in 2006 where I drove a Prado 4 L ( Landcruiser 120 NG ) VX, and some SWB Pajeros at play during a photo session for this booklet.

sorry to say DF....i dont agree with you on what you wrote about Prado! it doesnt even come close to LC!

have you ever noticed none of the desert safari tour operators uses Prado in UAE?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by desertfox

A Prado owner will go to Liwa on a weekend.

And Land cruiser owners cannot go to Liwa on a weekend?

Originally Posted by desertfox

Safari drivers prefer manual vehicles. prados hardly come in Manual.

You can order one in Manual so why don't the Safari operators do that? There is nothing like hardly comes in manual. It either does or does not. You cannot be a little bit pregnant. Either you are pregnant or you are not.

Originally Posted by desertfox

Prado if used daily in the desert will develop tie rod and axle problems, besides body rattle. It is the weekend offroading car.

So you if you use it every weekend, it won't develop tie rod and axle problems over time? What is the problem in using the Landcruiser only on the weekends? Why is the Prado a better weekend offroading car?

Originally Posted by desertfox

But main reason is the space and reputation - why all other safari companies used landcruiser before a Prados off roading capabilites were really discovered in 1999.

If the Prado's off-roading capabilities were discovered in 1999 woudn't 10 years be a resonable time to start seeing some of them on the safaris?

[desertfox]

Attribute it to vehicle cabin size and the Landcruiser 100 and the 200 now being tougher in built, axle, suspension over a Prado.

Prado engine is very good, and it has a better P/W ratio than a LC 200 with the same engine.

The profile of a guy who owns a Prado is an expat who drives it to work everyday and does some off roading with it on the weekend.

A Landcruiser owner is either a local arab or a very rich expat usually, hence such a driver is unlikely to venture into the desert.

Manual Prado - there was never sufficent demand from Safari companies ever. It was cabable but not for heavy desert use. Thus none were ordered by Al Futtaim Motors the UAE dealer.

Some M/T came but only in 2.7 litre 4 Cyl. models.
THe SWB 3400 V6 came only in M/T and I had one before coming to India, modified for desert use with ARB OME suspension, cat back exaust, K & N filters, 275 mm tyres etc. THis I drove only in the desert and for city driving I used my Landcruiser VXR V8. I have sold both the vehicles before coming to India.

[4x4addict]

DesertFox:

I would like to introduce you to friend Gurkha from Force Motors already declared by a German magazine as the best 4x4 in the world. So your Prado will have to settle for second best 4x4 in the world. Poor Defenders and Wrangers and the G-Wagen will have to settle for consolation prizes.

[Parm]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

DesertFox:

I would like to introduce you to friend Gurkha from Force Motors already declared by a German magazine as the best 4x4 in the world. So your Prado will have to settle for second best 4x4 in the world. Poor Defenders and Wrangers and the G-Wagen will have to settle for consolation prizes.

hey 4x4addict, is that true about Gurkha? could you post a source, that would be really helpfull for me to decide on my purchase in india....i had my mind of new scorpio, but i can change my mind in favour of Gurkha!

[-GT-]

Originally Posted by desertfox

There is no vehicle which can match the off road capability of the new Toyota Prado with the 4000 cc V6 IGRFE Petrol engine.

Firstly, I would prefer to call the Prado as "Landcruiser Prado" - that is how it is named by Toyota and for good reasons too. It is built on LC platform with the time tested and heavily pre-launch tested, rugged built.

Originally Posted by desertfox

It beats the Landcruiser, Pajero, Jeep Wrangler hands down.

Sorry - will not agree on that sweeping statement. An excellent driver can drive a vehicle like Suzuki Jimmy and beat an ordinary driver on any machine (leave alone the LC Prado)

Originally Posted by desertfox

This vehicle is a full time 4WD with central diff lock, rear LSD and low transfer case.

So...?
The LC200 comes with a Center Torsen LSDiff, Center diff-lock, Rear diff-lock and of course the low transfer case with sequential shift - full 5 gears in both high & low.

Originally Posted by desertfox

it drives like a car on City roads.

Sorry. Cannot agree with you there. The LC Prado (with short width, tall and high CG) has extreme body rolls on simple round-abouts - which was the main reason I chose not to buy one. Sure, it doesn't really roll and turn turtle, but it will push you and the passengers quite a bit to the sides.

Originally Posted by desertfox

Manual gears - suitable more for daily offroad use, sturdier built, bigger car, can seat seven pax easily, dual fuel tanks against only one in many prados.

Only the top end VX model LC Prado has a single tank of 90lit - the other two trims of LWB have two tanks totaling 180lits; whereas LC100 or LC200 never had more than 140lit (dual tank). BTW, why should any safari driver need anything more than 30 litres of petrol?

Originally Posted by desertfox

Prado if used daily in the desert will develop tie rod and axle problems, besides body rattle. It is the weekend offroading car.
It was capable but not for heavy desert use.

Originally Posted by desertfox

Attribute it to vehicle cabin size and the Landcruiser 100 and the 200 now being tougher in built, axle, suspension over a Prado.

You have answered the question very accurately!

Originally Posted by desertfox

A Landcruiser owner is either a local arab or a very rich expat usually, hence such a driver is unlikely to venture into the desert.

I am not sure whether you will call me also a 'very rich expat' - since it is a pretty subjective statement; but I do venture into the desert happily with my LC200.

Conclusion: LC Prado is a great machine - extremely capable and pretty rugged even if 'desertfox' doesn't think so; however I differ with him on his statement of alleged superiority of LC Prado over LC100 or LC200.