JBL 75.4 tripping over a GTO1204 sub

amitverma · 27th August 2006, 03:17

hey folks
got a long overdue ICE upgrade for my ride...
6 1/2" comps in the front. JBL 60.4. Pioneer 306DVC. Bass box/bin setup.

now here is the cover story. i initially decided on JBL GTO1204 sub for my Palio. everything was fitted. the amp came a little later. on fixing it up the bass was tight and lovely. but the amp tripped just over a minute of 50 Cent's magic. well the dealer suggested that the amp was underpowered for the sub. Point noted.
Installed my friend's "Branded Local" Alpine rip-off and it took the sub with ease. But at the loss of SQ. Not fine at all. the dealer suggested me to go for the bigger sibling from JBL, the 75.4. It was quite outta my budget but thought to myself, what the heck?
anyways, went on with it. JBL 75.4 ready to do duty. Teriyaki Boyz go on with their biz absolutely fine. Mr. Curtis Jackson (50 for the ummm....senior citizens) came on to the stage and u can guess what happened from the title of this thread....right?
the damn thing tripped.

what the **** is wrong ?
local rip-offs can handle the JBL sub but the company's own amp cant?

i had to settle for a Pio 306 DVC with the JBL 60.4. I am satisfied with the overall bass but as far as the SQ level goes, well, I still want more.

Anyways, here are the connection story...:
JBL 60.4 powering the sub Pio 306DVC.
Pio MP5650 HU powering the front JBL comps and the rear Xplod 6"x9".
i wanted to drive the comps from the amp but all trouble in the afternoon left me with no time to do that. will get that done later. also since the door had the original company wiring, the dealer suggested me to go on with the current setup to save time and hassle.

I feel that the current setup still has plenty SQ juice waiting to be extracted. And I need the patented Team-BHP expertise for that. okay enough being cheezy, help me ppl.

low_bass_makker · 27th August 2006, 09:38

man the power wiring and little her and there is the culprit here some fine adjustment and some replacement will make the job done......

or you can

come down to the meet as all the experts will be there to rectifiy the install......

details....

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-b...2006-a-17.html

jkdas · 28th August 2006, 11:11

think the gain setting (tuning) wasnt done correctly.

navin · 28th August 2006, 11:57

were you were bridging 2 channels of the 75.4 to drive the JBL sub?

amitverma · 30th August 2006, 17:27

yup two channels of the 75.4.
many dealers say that DVC subs require monoblocks. is it true?

anToNIcHeN · 30th August 2006, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

yup two channels of the 75.4.
many dealers say that DVC subs require monoblocks. is it true?

boss... how did you wire the DVC Sub?....
If in series.... it would work.....But you would be presenting 8 ohms to your amp.... NOT GOOD!...

if in parallel... GTO1204D would give 2ohms and your amp wont be able to take it.......

my suggestion.. ask your dealer to get u a GTO1202D woofer...
wire them in series... drive them by your GTO75.4....

else get CS300.1 mono amp.... wire your GTO1204D in parallel and have fun

regards,
ant.

anToNIcHeN · 30th August 2006, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

i had to settle for a Pio 306 DVC with the JBL 60.4. I am satisfied with the overall bass but as far as the SQ level goes, well, I still want more.

Anyways, here are the connection story...:
JBL 60.4 powering the sub Pio 306DVC.

One thing that still confuses me.... Even in this configuration.... you are gonna have tripping.... (unless ofcouse you are wired in series...)...

Are you sure that the sub that you have is 306DVC or is it 306C?...

regards,
ant.

amitverma · 30th August 2006, 19:44

no i have a DVC Pioneer. and it aint tripping.

ankushagg · 30th August 2006, 23:56

we'll its the low segment woofer but requires a mono block amp if you want best sound from it then u shud go for concorde 5 channel amp it will give good output it'll also take loads of speaker

else go for the sony 2 channel (mono block) 51x it will also take the load n then u have to buy a 502 for compo n speakers

i got 2 DVC's in my car and have 3 amps x) for 2 amps for eaach DVC n 1 amp for speakers , compo n centre speaker.
Try finding concorde amp its now out of manufacturing see if you get 1

Sam Kapasi · 31st August 2006, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankushagg

Try finding concorde amp its now out of manufacturing see if you get 1

I wonder if it has anything to do with the supersonic plane, because even that is out of manufacturing.

low_bass_makker · 31st August 2006, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankushagg

Try finding concorde amp its now out of manufacturing see if you get 1

Sam bhai very simple no need to go in finner details

ankushagg can we have a weblink of the concorde amp......

navin · 31st August 2006, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

no i have a DVC Pioneer. and it aint tripping.

Before this thread is hijacked by the "Concordiers" lets cover the basics of amp design.

most car audio amps are designed to drive a NOMINAL 4 ohm load. By NOMINAL we are talking of average impedance of the speaker. Some speakers (particularly woofers) tend to have a dip in impedance to as low as 1.5-2 ohms.

SOME amps can also deliver power to a NOMINAL 2 ohm load. Even if your amp is capable of this I would advise not using this load unless your choices are limited (or you have painted yourself into a corner).

Very few are rated to operate safely to a NOMINAL 1 ohm load. Now these amps can be very safely operated at 2 ohms but again a 1 ohm load is damn close to a short and is really not adviasble for ANY amp.

The JBL 75.4 is capable of the following:
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/prod...=US&region=USA

and the JBL 1204 can be wired to 2 ot 8 ohms.

The 75.4 and 60.4 can drive a 4 ohms load in bridge mode but not a 2 ohm load.

Now we get to the subwoofer's impedance curve. It is obvious that the Pio 306DVC subs impedance curve does not dip below 4 ohms in the range the sub is operating (say below 100Hz) or it maybe that the JBL 1204 impednace falls to say 3 ohms (each coil) or lower in the range the sub is operating. The impedance drop might be over a very small frequency range. The same frequency range that your Mr. Curtis was making music at. hence when Mr. Curtis started all that energy at the same narrow band where the sub's impedance was low forced the amp to delvier a lot of current and it shut down to protect itself.

At Sam's behest, I have stayed away from the electrical engineering details so i hope the above explains your problem.

Now getting to your problem with the local amp. Local amps are made to inexact standards and QC. Also very often a local manufacturer will substitute one transistor for another with scant respect to matching. I have seen one manufacturer who simply upped the number of output transistors on his amp from 2 pairs to 3 pairs since he was not sure of the current handling capacity of his devices. Now under these circumstances you will find a local amp that can safely handle low impednace loads but since the amps are usually mongrels the sound quality is often not up to par.

jinu_joseph · 31st August 2006, 10:22

Wow Navin.. that was very well explained.. this is surely an art which you have perfected.. to explain technical without getting too technical..

jkdas · 31st August 2006, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu_joseph

Wow Navin.. that was very well explained.. this is surely an art which you have perfected.. to explain technical without getting too technical..

yahyah, check his older threads. They had to telegram to visit TBHP ICE section when I started to avoid ICE section coz of the technical and mathematical things they started to post

amitverma · 2nd September 2006, 02:41

but is there any way I can plug the JBL sub with 60.4?
the dealer promised a change if i somehow find a safe way to plug em up.

one more odd thing. me and my friend have the same HU and sub. but he has a fake Alpine doing the duty. the strange thing is at Volume Level 10-15, his car is exploding whereas mine is not even fully awake? Why is that?

Also I like in-cabin SQ, but sometimes deep Bass getting outta the car and disturbing the crap out of pedestrians (read: chicks) is also required. which somehow seems missing.
Mr. SAM, Navin & Co. Urgent Help Reqd.

27th August 2006, 03:17	#1
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 434 Thanked: 169 Times	JBL 75.4 tripping over a GTO1204 sub hey folks got a long overdue ICE upgrade for my ride... 6 1/2" comps in the front. JBL 60.4. Pioneer 306DVC. Bass box/bin setup. now here is the cover story. i initially decided on JBL GTO1204 sub for my Palio. everything was fitted. the amp came a little later. on fixing it up the bass was tight and lovely. but the amp tripped just over a minute of 50 Cent's magic. well the dealer suggested that the amp was underpowered for the sub. Point noted. Installed my friend's "Branded Local" Alpine rip-off and it took the sub with ease. But at the loss of SQ. Not fine at all. the dealer suggested me to go for the bigger sibling from JBL, the 75.4. It was quite outta my budget but thought to myself, what the heck? anyways, went on with it. JBL 75.4 ready to do duty. Teriyaki Boyz go on with their biz absolutely fine. Mr. Curtis Jackson (50 for the ummm....senior citizens) came on to the stage and u can guess what happened from the title of this thread....right? the damn thing tripped. what the **** is wrong ? local rip-offs can handle the JBL sub but the company's own amp cant? i had to settle for a Pio 306 DVC with the JBL 60.4. I am satisfied with the overall bass but as far as the SQ level goes, well, I still want more. Anyways, here are the connection story...: JBL 60.4 powering the sub Pio 306DVC. Pio MP5650 HU powering the front JBL comps and the rear Xplod 6"x9". i wanted to drive the comps from the amp but all trouble in the afternoon left me with no time to do that. will get that done later. also since the door had the original company wiring, the dealer suggested me to go on with the current setup to save time and hassle. I feel that the current setup still has plenty SQ juice waiting to be extracted. And I need the patented Team-BHP expertise for that. okay enough being cheezy, help me ppl.
	() Thanks

27th August 2006, 09:38	#2
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,813 Thanked: 306 Times View My Garage	man the power wiring and little her and there is the culprit here some fine adjustment and some replacement will make the job done...... or you can come down to the meet as all the experts will be there to rectifiy the install...... details.... http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-b...2006-a-17.html
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 11:11	#3
jkdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Thiruvananthapu Posts: 9,685 Thanked: 1,497 Times View My Garage	think the gain setting (tuning) wasnt done correctly.
	() Thanks

28th August 2006, 11:57	#4
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,417 Thanked: 9,982 Times	were you were bridging 2 channels of the 75.4 to drive the JBL sub?
	() Thanks

30th August 2006, 17:27	#5
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 434 Thanked: 169 Times	yup two channels of the 75.4. many dealers say that DVC subs require monoblocks. is it true?
	() Thanks

30th August 2006, 19:44	#8
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 434 Thanked: 169 Times	no i have a DVC Pioneer. and it aint tripping.
	() Thanks

30th August 2006, 23:56	#9
ankushagg Newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delhi Posts: 7 Thanked: 0 Times	306 Dvc we'll its the low segment woofer but requires a mono block amp if you want best sound from it then u shud go for concorde 5 channel amp it will give good output it'll also take loads of speaker else go for the sony 2 channel (mono block) 51x it will also take the load n then u have to buy a 502 for compo n speakers i got 2 DVC's in my car and have 3 amps x) for 2 amps for eaach DVC n 1 amp for speakers , compo n centre speaker. Try finding concorde amp its now out of manufacturing see if you get 1
	() Thanks

31st August 2006, 10:22	#13
jinu_joseph BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 426 Thanked: 202 Times	Wow Navin.. that was very well explained.. this is surely an art which you have perfected.. to explain technical without getting too technical..
	() Thanks

2nd September 2006, 02:41	#15
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 434 Thanked: 169 Times	but is there any way I can plug the JBL sub with 60.4? the dealer promised a change if i somehow find a safe way to plug em up. one more odd thing. me and my friend have the same HU and sub. but he has a fake Alpine doing the duty. the strange thing is at Volume Level 10-15, his car is exploding whereas mine is not even fully awake? Why is that? Also I like in-cabin SQ, but sometimes deep Bass getting outta the car and disturbing the crap out of pedestrians (read: chicks) is also required. which somehow seems missing. Mr. SAM, Navin & Co. Urgent Help Reqd.
	() Thanks