1st October 2009, 19:45
| #31 | |
| Senior - BHPian  | Quote:
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1st October 2009, 20:05
| #32 |
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1st October 2009, 22:47
| #33 | |||
| Team-BHP Support   Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai
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There are many 4" midranges (I rememebr using a Vifa 10cm midrange that was usable over 5 octaves from 250Hz to 5kHz in the 80s. A few months later Theil used the same midrange in their CS3.5 or some speaker like that) that can cover the 300-5k rnage but none that I know of designed specifically for the harsh enviroment in the car (in India we have added heat and humidity). | |||
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1st October 2009, 23:31
| #34 | |
| Senior - BHPian  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay
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Legatia L3 from Hybrid can go down to 160hz at 24db slope or you can play them at 250hz at 12db and can be crossed as high as 6000hz at 12db. One thing about them I have heard is they tend to play mids kinda brighter and they are better off in an enclosure. Mi10@ 1. Another option you could consider is getting a sound processor like Audio control DQX, RFsixty.2, or even from Alpine. 2. You can get the Point source speakers such as 4" Morel Integra Ovation", these come with passive xover. They can run active too with 75+75 RMS. Plus they can be crossed down to 100hz at 18 or 24db or cross them at 200hz 12db or so and can handle all the high frequencies. Below which you could get a strong midbass driver something like Peerless SLS6, that can play down from 50hz with great authority. There are many options that one can play with. Run the 3 way speakers Active through the HU and the sub through the amp xover, run 2 way comp passive for mids and highs and midbass and sub through active xover from HU or sound processor. Most amps don't give much crossover option plus some of them have just 12db slope, whereas in some cases 18 or 24db slope is always preferred. There are few dome midrange drivers available from cadence, Dayton Audio, Vifa, Tang Band that you can check out. They are available in 2 or 3" size. | |
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2nd October 2009, 10:50
| #35 |
| BHPian  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chennai
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| HI Praveen, I think you should upgrade your HU first before anything else, bcos even if you change your speakers now, They will not sound their best with that pio5050. You need a good clean source, and a good HU makes a big difference ! I suggest you save up and get something like the pio P99rs or P90+processor ! Then you will have 4 pre-outs ! hi,mid,low,sub !  !Perfect for your 3-way setup !Cheers ! Last edited by vibhu_f430 : 2nd October 2009 at 10:54. |
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2nd October 2009, 12:40
| #36 | |
| Senior - BHPian  Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore
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 Intriguing! Why so? | |
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3rd October 2009, 00:08
| #37 | ||
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12db: adequate for most drivers except very fragile tweeters. 18db: most commonly used and the first slope I try. the 90 deg phase shift also helps align the tweeter if the woofer is near the knee and the tweeter near the OVRM 24db: too much slope and ringing besides the degree of phase shift does not help. | ||
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3rd October 2009, 00:40
| #38 | |
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3rd October 2009, 02:49
| #39 | |
| Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay
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For instance a 6 db octave, an Octave is half or double of given frequency. A 6db octave would result in 75% reduction at a given xover point where some amount of freq from the midbass would be played by the tweeter if it's HP. Same way a 12db would result in around 93% reduction, 18db octave slope would result in 98.4% reduction and 24db would result in 99.4% reduction. So for instance if a given tweeter has an FS of 900, can play freq range above 1800hz. In that case either one play the tweeter at 2000 or 2200 hz provided a 18db or 24 db slope is used or one can play it at 3200hz at 6db with some mids be played which would fade off one's it reached close to 1800hz. Also, every octave slope results in a phase shift. Which would mean a 6db would result in 90deg shift, 12db with 180deg, 18db with 270deg and 24db will be 360deg. In case of 12db one would have to reverse the polarity of the driver where as in 24db the phase shift is twice which is 180+180 in which case it would have a steep roll-off and one would not require to reverse the polarity. The way I see it if one wants to use the driver close to it freq limit it's better of to have 18db or 24db octave slope. If blending the the midbass and tweeter one could use 12db or even 6db at higher xover point which would allow some freq from the midbass to enter the tweeter. This is better option if the tweeter are set far off or more 6-8inches from the midbass. Also, the PLD between the woofer and tweeter could help deciding this factor. It also depends the location of the drivers midbass to mids to tweeter. If the slope is calculated correctly it may improve on the imaging part depending on the mounting location of the drivers. | |
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3rd October 2009, 08:56
| #40 | ||
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so you may think that he could use the sub channels for the sub and then the mid channels to bandpass the midbass and then use the tweeter channels to just highpass at a lower point and use the passive crossover to filter between midrange and tweeter BUT you cannot do that because for most passives they are designed in a way that if nothing is plugged into any of the particular outputs it will cause a dead short there which will over time eventually cause the crossover and hence the speakers to eventually fail sooner rather than later. So its not worth going this route unless you have the knowhow to open the crossover and modify it or even better to build your own crossover network for the remaining drivers with the required L-pads for attenuated levels that will be required to give you a reasonably flattish response you could use a processor like an Alpine C701 or even an audison bit one which will give you the required 4 way crossover plus individual channel time alignment as well as good EQ functionality, and these will work with almost any headunit under the sun but thats an expensive route to take, the advantage is that these could even make your OEM stock headunit sound brilliant if you did not want the added complexity of an offboard processor, this is the suggestion i would take seriously into consideration Quote:
P90+ processor doesnt have a lot of the mod cons like Mp3 playback or ipod and iphone control as well as built in bluetooth like the P99RS has - so you will be stuck playing only original cd's whilst with the P99RS there is no limit to the source because of the connectivity available as well as all the built in gadgets to increase connectivity then the problem is that the P99Rs or the DEH-P01 are so new that availability is a concern - so you would need a contact in Europe or Japan to source you one and then final pricing depends on your countries taxation policies for example here in South Africa i would need to add in shipping as well as a handling charge and then import duties and then 14% VAT all payable when i collect a unit like this at the post office if its shipped to me - could all land up adding some substantial amount to an already fancy price if India is the same if you really want to save up then the source wont matter much cos the audison bit one for example has an ADC whch converts back to digital then uses its own DAC's for final processing, or if your headunit has a digital output then the bit one also has optical as well coax digital inputs, and it costs around 1/3rd of the pioneer P99RS (at least here in South Africa it does) unfortunately all expensive options - cheapest option IMHO would be to sell your speaker set and get something thats less complex to set up in active mode ie a mid, tweeter and sub only. In that instance a 9887 or pioneer P88 or something of that nature will provide perfect control as well as decent sound quality, as long as you have enough amp channels (two for tweeters - two for mids - and whatever you need for sub/s) | ||
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3rd October 2009, 11:28
| #41 | ||
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Specialised cases that follow more rigid rules and are built to higher expecations may require a more sophisticated approach. What bothers us is often the following. Most 2 way systems have the XO around 3kHz. Now to protect the tweeter (such system sue tweeter with fs of about 1500Hz) they designer uses a 12db XO with a high Q. This high Q causes an overshoot and some ringing in and around the 3khz region. Unfortunately the human ear is very very sensitive to this. THe very first curve (if we are looking at the ear from the tympaanic cavity) of the ear's cochlear is senstive to about 16kHz but the peak of this curve happens in the 3-6kHz octave. Just where the XO is doing crazy things. This is the same problem facing Class D amps today. The filter the designers use is designed to have a sharp roll off and this filter causes a huge peak and valley (like to nothc filters inverted to each other) around this 3-6K region. if the designers of Class D amps stopped chasing the 0.00001% distortion (hey 0.1% is good enough aint it) they would not need such steep filters and these peaks and valleys would never be there in the first place. IN any case the power supplies of these amps seem to be gettting more sophisticated and bigger and the good Class D amps are not a whole lot much smaller than Class AB amps today. Quote:
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3rd October 2009, 13:13
| #42 |
| Senior - BHPian | |
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3rd October 2009, 14:05
| #43 | |
| Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bombay
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You could also have a HU which has a 3 way active xover run the mids and tweets under Highs seting with further being separation through passive xover, have the midbass under Mid setting and sub with sub setting. Apart from this what drivers you use along with the placement would be more imp. | |
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3rd October 2009, 14:17
| #44 |
| Senior - BHPian  | |
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3rd October 2009, 15:55
| #45 | |
| Senior - BHPian  Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai
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Not really Nitrous, the difference was felt because you moved from an average HU to a better HU and your install was done by a professional. Most HUs at the lower end do not offer as much features as the high end ones. Having said that - It does not mean that all high end HUs are good too. Having a good installer tune your setup is very important too. I've seen too many setups where the settings have been funny and the guy has spent a fortune  | |
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