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Old 13th June 2019, 10:09   #31
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
While this may not be a popular statement to make but the arrangement of our railway carriages is a reflection of a fuedal outlook - air-con for the better off and natural ventilation for the hoi-polloi.

My prayers for the unfortunate deceased.
Everyone gets what they pay for. Railways may make all the coaches air conditioned for all trains (many already have), but can all the people afford them? After all railways also need to make a profit, they can't offer ac coaches for the price of non ac ones.
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Old 13th June 2019, 10:47   #32
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

It seems that at a bare minimum, the roofs on Non-AC coaches could be insulated - a couple inches of interior thermocol or some such would dramatically decrease the heat being radiated down on account of direct sunlight on metal roofs, and the technology is there to simply spray it on, I believe, so rather quick/easy. Further, roofs should be painted white to reflect heat, and kept washed when necessary. Neither of these upgrades would be particularly expensive, and together would make a big difference. Without them, when ambient heat itself is above 45, no doubt coach interiors could be touching 50 - which many bodies simply can't handle.

Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 13th June 2019 at 10:49.
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Old 13th June 2019, 11:56   #33
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

May all the departed souls RIP!

Air-conditioned public transport is the need of the hour. No one deserves such a gruesome death. I personally feel that the govt. should stop some of those 'money wasting' schemes and use that money to provide air-conditioned trains and buses to the public. In the intense summer heat, these non air-conditioned trains transform themselves into a portable microwave oven.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:29   #34
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

Really sad to read the news. RIP!

In May 2008, I had to travel to Mumbai from Badnera by Gitanjali Express. It's a day time train on this particular stretch. For us, Bhusawal to Nasik was the worst part as it was in pick afternoon & train do not halt at all for 2.5 hours & travel at very high speed. Heatwaves are so strong that people close the windshield completely. It definitely leads to ventilation issues in our crowded sleeper coaches. The situation in the unreserved section must be beyond imagination. To make matter worse, there was absolutely no cold water bottle with any of the pantry folk.
It's really high time for our Railway engineering organizations like RDSO get back on drawing board as the situation might get worse in future.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:45   #35
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by Thermodynamics View Post
4 Train Passengers On Kerala Express Die Due To Heat In Jhansi according to this report.



Unfortunately our cattle class coaches are not air-conditioned, the worst part is they are not even insulated.

May the souls rest in peace, they have literally bought tickets of their final journey.
I think something is suspicious in this case as heat would have impacted all people in the train equally and suffocation by lack of ventilation would have been felt by few others also both of which cease to be issues in a moving train.

I think they consumed something that was not right. Post-mortem report may point to something.
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Old 13th June 2019, 13:16   #36
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

Note to MODS: I was skeptical about posting here by knowing the fact that a newbie shall not post directly to the community. Unfortunately I could not find private messaging and/ or an email provision during my search.

Source

https://rameyking.com/do-you-know-th...ut-more-below/

https://facilitiesservices.utk.edu/w...yMAY5-2016.pdf

Hello there,

I was able to read through this particular thread today as part of my routine Team BHP morning reading session. I comprehend that we have an extreme dearth of awareness on the following pattern: Heat Rashes – Heat Stress – Heat exhaustion – Heat Stroke – Even Death. Thus, this post in the best interest of our fellow citizens. Due to my job being a Quality, Health, Safety and Environment Management (QHSE) employee and also the hot summers in Afghanistan, ‘Fighting Heat’ is being the hot topic nowadays. For the last 10 years it has been discussed a numerous times to an extent whereas I felt that it is unnecessarily repetitive. To my surprise, I have got hit hard yesterday by heat stress due to been exposed to the heat as part of my field assessment that too in between 10:00 – 11:00 hrs. Now I am crystal clear; why this topic has to be discussed again and again especially in summers.

This made me thinking, how could I be a help within the forum or within a specific thread discussion like this one? Listed below are some of my knowledge sharing topics regarding ‘Heat’.

Summer-Hot Weather

Too much heat and humidity can make people sick and in some cases, even cause death. Everyone reacts differently to heat but we all need to know how to recognize and treat heat emergencies.

The body must get rid of excess heat to maintain a stable internal temperature. Normally the body does this mainly through circulating blood to the skin and through sweating and cools itself. When the air temperature is close to or warmer than normal body temperature, cooling of the body becomes more difficult. Blood circulated to the skin cannot lose its heat. Sweating then becomes the main way the body cools off. But sweating is effective only if the humidity level is low enough to allow evaporation, and if the fluids and salts that are lost are adequately replaced. If the body cannot get rid of excess heat, it will store it. When this happens, the body's core temperature rises and the heart rate increases. As the body continues to store heat, the person begins to lose concentration and has difficulty focusing on a task, may become irritable or sick, and often loses the desire to drink. The next stage is most often fainting and even death if the person is not cooled down. Excessive exposure to heat can cause a range of heat-related illnesses, from heat rash and heat cramps to heat exhaustion and heat stroke. Heat stroke can result in death and requires immediate medical attention. Exposure to heat can also increase the risk of injuries because of sweaty palms, fogged-up safety glasses, dizziness, and burns from hot surfaces or steam.. Heat emergencies fall into three different categories:


HEAT CRAMPS cause painful spasms of the leg and stomach muscles resulting from loss of fluids and salt from sweating. Treatment is simple: massage the cramped muscles and drink fluids.

HEAT EXHAUSTION - the skin will be cold, pale and clammy from perspiration. You may feel fatigue, nausea and have a headache; you may also feel weak and faint. Treatment - move the victim to a cooler place and lay them down with their feet elevated. Have them drink small amounts of fluids at frequent intervals. Medical follow-up may be advisable.

HEAT STROKE is the most serious and potentially deadly heat emergency. here is a malfunction in the body's regulating system resulting in lack of sweating. Heat stroke is a medical emergency and requires immediate treatment by a doctor. Symptoms include mental confusion; the victim may stagger or even lapse into unconsciousness. The skin will be dry, hot and flushed. Treatment - call an ambulance or nearest medical responder immediately. Move the victim to a cooler place and lay them down with the head elevated. Sponge with cool water until help arrives.

Heat stress can lead to heat exhaustion, heat stroke, or even death.

Symptoms
• Nausea
• Headache
• Weakness
• Vomiting
• Dizziness
• Breathing difficulty
• Chills
• Rapid heart beat

Treatment
• Never hesitate to rest
• Loosen your clothing
• Seek shade or air conditioning to cool down
• Lie down with your feet raised
• Increase fluid intake

Prevention
• Review first aid training or instruct everyone in recognizing the signs, symptoms, and treatment for heat stress
• Know when temperatures and humidity reach hazardous levels, and communicate the dangers to everyone
• Always keep fluids handy and encourage consumption
• Watch for signs of heat stress

5 Ways to Prevent Heat Stroke

Drink plenty of fluids before, during and after you are done work. Just because you are no longer in the sun does not mean you can’t still suffer from a heat stroke. It is important to keep your body hydrated throughout the day. The heat causes you to sweat which dehydrates you quicker than normal.

You should drink regular water as well as sports drinks such as Gatorade. They will help replenish the salt and other nutrients that you are sweating out.

While wearing a hat seems like the best idea since it keeps the sun out of your eyes and off of your head, it is actually bad for you. A hat will keep your body heat from rising out of your head. So they really only aid in speeding up the process of heat stroke. Instead wear either sunglasses or a visor style hat if you really feel you must wear one. This will allow the heat to escape.

Wear loose and light clothing. Anything that clings to your body or is made of a heavy fabric will keep your body heat from escaping. It is best to wear light colored short sleeve t-shirts. The fabric that breathes the best is typically cotton.

Take breaks where you are out of the sun or heat. It is important to give your body a chance to cool down and regulate itself. By taking a few short breaks throughout the day you can help reduce your chances of heat stroke.


DRINK PLENTY OF WATER.

Cheers and be safe out in the sun.

Last edited by GTO : 15th June 2019 at 10:07. Reason: Adding source links - PM coming up
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Old 13th June 2019, 13:51   #37
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by cjnigesh View Post
While wearing a hat seems like the best idea since it keeps the sun out of your eyes and off of your head, it is actually bad for you.
This sounds a bit counter-intuitive. I understand that covering the head traps the heat and know that the head certainly efficiently diffuses heat. But under a blazing Sun, surely the advantages of shielding the exposed head from the sun's rays outweigh the heat trapping effect? Especially if it is a wide-brimmed hat with side vents? I'm no expert or doctor, but whenever I spend time outside in the sun, I certainly feel much better with a hat/cap on than without one.

Any medical professionals on this thread, could you please weigh in.

Last edited by am1m : 13th June 2019 at 14:13.
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Old 13th June 2019, 13:56   #38
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

Two years ago I was in the UK during their 'summers', it was the hottest summer in London and even Scotland saw very high temperatures by their standards, but they were nothing compared to Delhi or India in general.

What struck me was the constant advisories that were being relayed at the railway stations and inside the trains using the PA system. The announcements were something like "Please drink plenty of water and stay hydrated", "Use umbrella while walking", "Disembark the train at the next station if you feel uneasy or shortness of breath" etc. They were even offering free water bottles at big stations, but only needy people were taking it, those who could afford buying one were buying it properly. Not all over-ground trains are air-conditioned there too, but it seemed as if the railways was aware of all of the worst possibilities. Is it so difficult to implement it here ?

I feel bad for the elders in India, they suffer the most and general public/government is mostly apathetic towards them.
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Old 13th June 2019, 14:07   #39
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by NiInJa View Post
I feel bad for the elders in India, they suffer the most and general public/government is mostly apathetic towards them.
Was hoping someone would bring this up. Given the lack of public facilities, I always try and discourage elderly relatives from making long journeys, especially to crowded areas. But the combination of religious sentiment being higher among the elderly and religious places always being crowded in India, it seems to be a losing battle!

Last edited by am1m : 13th June 2019 at 14:13.
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Old 13th June 2019, 14:26   #40
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
It seems that at a bare minimum, the roofs on Non-AC coaches could be insulated - a couple inches of interior thermocol or some such would dramatically decrease the heat being radiated down on account of direct sunlight on metal roofs, and the technology is there to simply spray it on, I believe, so rather quick/easy. Further, roofs should be painted white to reflect heat, and kept washed when necessary. Neither of these upgrades would be particularly expensive, and together would make a big difference. Without them, when ambient heat itself is above 45, no doubt coach interiors could be touching 50 - which many bodies simply can't handle.

Eric
Not sure you've seen the coaches. They roofs are already insulated - a bit of vacuum / air pocket kind of thing through which the services run. There is some other insulation also, not sure if thermocol.

Also, all coach roofs are painted silver on the outside.

In addition, there are small window type openings in the roof at various places. These are most likely for ventilation.

The
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Old 14th June 2019, 10:48   #41
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
SL class need seat reservation, right? How does it gets overcrowded?
The overcrowding is the result of TT ignoring the without reservation passengers by giving them instant tickets. They in turn sit or sleep anywhere. even on the seats of reserved passengers, i had to fight a couple of times so my son can sleep comfortable on his seat. I too was travelling on the same route till Nagpur and the going was very tough. There was not even cold water.

In the night there was no space even to stand let alone to walk. You could not get down from your seat to go to the washroom. Men, women 7 children all sleeping on the floor.

cheers

Sangharsh
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:01   #42
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On this Wednesday 12th June, my neighbor aged 59 passed away in a train while returning from Kashi. They were group of 3 couples, aged 55 to 65.
I am still in shock as had just talked to him a week back when he was leaving for the tour.
He was unwell at that time and had requested his BIL to postpone the tour. But was forced to go with lame excuse of tickets being booked and unavailability of tickets in future. The heat wave got to him and he dehydrated.
Irony is the tour was for the ' Asthi Visarjan' of his Mother in Law.
Unfortunate life lost.
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Old 14th June 2019, 17:38   #43
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by StarryFurry View Post
May all the departed souls RIP!

Air-conditioned public transport is the need of the hour. No one deserves such a gruesome death. I personally feel that the govt. should stop some of those 'money wasting' schemes and use that money to provide air-conditioned trains and buses to the public. In the intense summer heat, these non air-conditioned trains transform themselves into a portable microwave oven.
Completely agree with you. As a modern nation, all public transport, public buildings and other common enclosed areas should be airconditioned. Whatever the cost, this is money well invested. We can also do away with sleepers on most rail routes and replace them with chair cars. This would bring more revenue and hopefully lead to less crowding. For journeys up to 12 hours, one doesn't need a sleeper.
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Old 15th June 2019, 20:23   #44
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

My sad said 3 of the deceased were residents of the Nilgiris and 1 was from Coimbatore. All these are places where heat is an alien thing. No wonder, the poor folks couldn't cope with the dry heat in the north.
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Old 21st June 2019, 10:57   #45
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Default Re: 4 train passengers die due to excessive heat

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Originally Posted by aashishnb View Post
Not sure you've seen the coaches. They roofs are already insulated - a bit of vacuum / air pocket kind of thing through which the services run. There is some other insulation also, not sure if thermocol.

Also, all coach roofs are painted silver on the outside.

In addition, there are small window type openings in the roof at various places. These are most likely for ventilation.

The
I've actually ridden on them so many times in the past 20 years, most recently a few months ago. Not sure a simple air-pocket would be nearly as effective as some kind of properly rated insulation, and not sure there is verifiably any insulation up there, either.

Is the silver paint on ALL non A/C coaches? Somehow I'd forgotten!

I don't recall ever seeing small window-type openings. Anyone have pics of these?

I suppose even with all this, it's just going to be unbearably hot at times. It can only be made worse when trains are stopping / crawling along where they're not actually intended to be.

-Eric
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