Tata 207 VS Mahindra Maxx

rahul_intlad · 13th February 2007, 20:15

With Tata coming up with new pickups thought I should share this with team-bhp.

A recent survey conducted by M&M with LCV drivers and following is what the findings are.The following survey was done in Maharashtra state.

Quote:

Majority of the drivers prefer The mahindra over the tata 207 for the following ,TATA engine is lasting only for 2 years,and after that requires lot of replacements ,compared to which the mahindra last's longer and requires less replacements.Mileage wise again the mahindra is the winner.Pickupof the mahindra is very superior compared to the 207.Drivers prefer driving the maxx pickup over the 207.

I dont have much more details since this report is supposed to be an internal report by M&M.What I can say is in Maharashtra the Mahindra MAxx Pickup seems to be doing quite well,and I find more of them than the 207's on the road, off late.Regarding the engine lasting only two years,I dont have any idea of that in kilometer terms nor how long lasting the mahindra engines are.

The Tata 207 has the same engine as the 407.

PS: Kindly note,I have just passed on the information as it is from the M&M report and have not taken account possibility of bias on the part of M&M.

extreme_torque · 13th February 2007, 20:42

Dunno anything else but the part of the report that says the engine last for just 2 years is hardly believeable. THe engine in 207 is the same as the LCV 407 and its known to last a lifetime (even more than that).
As for pick up again, the TATA engine is bigger, makes more power and has better torque output... no reason why it should be slower than Mahindra.
Besides i find 207 more civilized compared to Mahindra.
I think they are feeling the heat from TATA, and have resorted to these cheap tactics.

rahul_intlad · 13th February 2007, 20:49

With regards to the engines,these are what I have been given,somebody kindly correct them if I am wrong

Mahindra MAxx
58 BHP @ 3200 RPM
16.55 kgm @ 1500 RPM

The Tata 207
60 BHP @ 3200 rpm
16 kgm @ 2200 rpm

Steeroid · 13th February 2007, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahul_intlad

Mahindra MAxx
58 BHP @ 3200 RPM
16.55 kgm @ 1500 RPM

The Tata 207
60 BHP @ 3200 rpm
16 kgm @ 2200 rpm

Depends on which 207 you're talking about. If its the 207 DI the specs are:

65 bhp @ 2800 rpm & 17.7 kmg@ 1600~1800 rpm (Bharat Stage II)

And

60 bhp @ 2800 rpm & 18.5 kmg @ 1500~200 rpm (India 2000)

There's no way peak torque is produced at 2200 rpm on that engine - it maxxs out at 3k.

sajo · 13th February 2007, 21:01

The 207 is more urban of the two. I may be wrong, but the bed of the Maxx seems slightly larger than the 207. Besides, the MAXX offers an optional low bed facility (something like the ACE), which makes it a boon for those loading heavy stuff onto it. Doesnt the MAXX come with OE Radial tyres compared to 207 which comes with tall cross-ply ones ?
And as I have noticed a few times, a 207 is prone to breaking into half

(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...into-half.html)
But the larger engine of the 207 with its 280Nm (isnt it?) of torque makes it a great hauler. BTW, I am surprised at the number of MAXXs being used as chicken transporters here in Pune.

And if the more urban siblings of these two are considered (the Bolero Camper and TL), which one would you prefer?

rahul_intlad · 13th February 2007, 21:21

The bolero camper

Or

The Tata TL

My choice: The Tata TL.

Ps: The new TL if that were an option.

tushky · 14th February 2007, 10:34

well Tata Tl has better looks, better dashboard than Mahindra Pick up and also refined engine. also Tata Tl has Image. you can convert Tata Tl into macho pick up by adding Alloys, Bull-Bar's, Fog laps....

GTO · 14th February 2007, 10:44

Rahul

If the survey is authentic, it may show actual perceptions but not facts. For e.g. the 407 engine has a warranty of 3,00,000 kms and there is no chance of a failure within 2 years. Its a true long-termer.

However, the Mahindras are more popular because Spare parts are much cheaper than Tatas. The Maxx is also far simpler to repair than the 207 and can take far more abuse than the Maxx.

sajo · 14th February 2007, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by tushky

well Tata Tl has better looks, better dashboard than Mahindra Pick up and also refined engine. also Tata Tl has Image. you can convert Tata Tl into macho pick up by adding Alloys, Bull-Bar's, Fog laps....

But the TL is also much more expensive than the Bolero Camper even. It costs too much, IMHO.

BTW, I dont think the either MAXx or the 207 comes with 4 wheel drive. If that would have happened, then it would be a true workhorse terrain muncher.

condor · 14th February 2007, 12:32

Quote:

Besides, the MAXX offers an optional low bed facility

Havent seen this - on road or on M&M's web-site.

Quote:

Doesnt the MAXX come with OE Radial tyres compared to 207 which comes with tall cross-ply ones ?

Dont think the Maxx comes with radials - low cost is the key reason here.

Quote:

And as I have noticed a few times, a 207 is prone to breaking into half

(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street-experiences/9843-207-broken-into-half.html)

you can see lots of these - including on M&M's. It's about how heavily these are over-loaded.

Quote:

But the larger engine of the 207 with its 280Nm (isnt it?) of torque makes it a great hauler.

That would be for the Safari Dicor and not on the 207's.

directinjection · 14th February 2007, 12:48

I seriously doubt the authenticity of this report.

While discussing engine life, drivers always refer to kilometers, not to the number of years the engine lasts. In 2 years, a 207 may do 3 lac KMs or it may do only 30,000.

Also, drivers of CVs (as opposed to CV owners) give importance to things like comfort, ergonomics and looks and in all these parameters, the 207 wins hands down over the Mahindra.

Also the claim about 207's engine life does not appear to be true. There wouldn't be so many 407s plying all over the country if that were true. Remember, 407 (with the same engine as 207) has a GVW of over 5 tonnes whereas 207 has a GVW of little over 2 tonnes. So, in 207, with lesser load and strain, the engine should be lasting even longer.

As I see it, Mahindra pick up could score over the 207 on the following fronts:

Mahindra has leaf spring suspension at front which, though bad for driver's comfort, improves tyre life, involves lesser maintenance and contributes to (over)load carrying capability.
Mahindra comes with radial tyres as opposed to nylon in 207
Mahindra have been offering a bigger load body
Mahindra have been offering a flat bed for longer time (Tata have introduced one only recently)
Mahindra might be lower priced (don't know if it's true)
Mahindra spares might be cheaper (can't say if that's true)

My choice: 207 of course!

It would also be interesting to conduct a survey of Tata 407 versus Mahindra LCV (the erstwhile Allwyn Nissan Cabstar).

sajo · 14th February 2007, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor

Havent seen this - on road or on M&M's web-site.
Dont think the Maxx comes with radials - low cost is the key reason here.

Will take pics the next time I see them on the road, though they arent very popular. Also of the radials

.

EDIT : One more point for the 207 : It comes in colours like cream (or a shade of beige, whatever) and red, long with the usual white. While the Mahindra ones I have seen are only in white.

condor · 14th February 2007, 13:03

The point about having cross-ply's is about lower cost and also about ability to retread these tires to increase their life. The typical attitude that users of this category show..

1100D · 14th February 2007, 21:47

Doesn't the 207 DI bharat stage II have the same engine and peripherals as the spacio gold. If so, there is no truth in these claims by Mahindra, they are Mahindra internal anyway, looks like someone wants to impress the internal management or is due for promotion.

The Spacio Gold has come a long way from the way the 407 engine started in the Spacio. The Spacio gold is much more refined and has better pulling power than the Bolero DI (according to users here), hence the same comparison should hold for the 207 DI vs Maxx.

IMP · 15th February 2007, 10:31

The tata 207 may soon be sold in Argentina as a fiat branded light truck
Tatas, Fiat JV for commercial vehicles-India Business-NEWS-The Times of India

interesting stuff this, but it shows IMO the level of bonding between tata-fiat, i am waiting for future fiats in india with better after sales.

13th February 2007, 20:42	#2
extreme_torque Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 4,377 Thanked: 5,105 Times	Dunno anything else but the part of the report that says the engine last for just 2 years is hardly believeable. THe engine in 207 is the same as the LCV 407 and its known to last a lifetime (even more than that). As for pick up again, the TATA engine is bigger, makes more power and has better torque output... no reason why it should be slower than Mahindra. Besides i find 207 more civilized compared to Mahindra. I think they are feeling the heat from TATA, and have resorted to these cheap tactics.
	() Thanks

13th February 2007, 20:49	#3
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	With regards to the engines,these are what I have been given,somebody kindly correct them if I am wrong Mahindra MAxx 58 BHP @ 3200 RPM 16.55 kgm @ 1500 RPM The Tata 207 60 BHP @ 3200 rpm 16 kgm @ 2200 rpm
	() Thanks

13th February 2007, 21:01	#5
sajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 2,625 Thanked: 1,153 Times	The 207 is more urban of the two. I may be wrong, but the bed of the Maxx seems slightly larger than the 207. Besides, the MAXX offers an optional low bed facility (something like the ACE), which makes it a boon for those loading heavy stuff onto it. Doesnt the MAXX come with OE Radial tyres compared to 207 which comes with tall cross-ply ones ? And as I have noticed a few times, a 207 is prone to breaking into half (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...into-half.html) But the larger engine of the 207 with its 280Nm (isnt it?) of torque makes it a great hauler. BTW, I am surprised at the number of MAXXs being used as chicken transporters here in Pune. And if the more urban siblings of these two are considered (the Bolero Camper and TL), which one would you prefer?
	() Thanks

13th February 2007, 21:21	#6
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	The bolero camper Or The Tata TL My choice: The Tata TL. Ps: The new TL if that were an option.
	() Thanks

14th February 2007, 10:34	#7
tushky Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 1,233 Thanked: 2,702 Times View My Garage	well Tata Tl has better looks, better dashboard than Mahindra Pick up and also refined engine. also Tata Tl has Image. you can convert Tata Tl into macho pick up by adding Alloys, Bull-Bar's, Fog laps....
	() Thanks

14th February 2007, 10:44	#8
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,788 Times View My Garage	Rahul If the survey is authentic, it may show actual perceptions but not facts. For e.g. the 407 engine has a warranty of 3,00,000 kms and there is no chance of a failure within 2 years. Its a true long-termer. However, the Mahindras are more popular because Spare parts are much cheaper than Tatas. The Maxx is also far simpler to repair than the 207 and can take far more abuse than the Maxx.
	() Thanks

14th February 2007, 12:48	#11
directinjection Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Faridabad/Delhi Posts: 1,705 Thanked: 785 Times	I seriously doubt the authenticity of this report. While discussing engine life, drivers always refer to kilometers, not to the number of years the engine lasts. In 2 years, a 207 may do 3 lac KMs or it may do only 30,000. Also, drivers of CVs (as opposed to CV owners) give importance to things like comfort, ergonomics and looks and in all these parameters, the 207 wins hands down over the Mahindra. Also the claim about 207's engine life does not appear to be true. There wouldn't be so many 407s plying all over the country if that were true. Remember, 407 (with the same engine as 207) has a GVW of over 5 tonnes whereas 207 has a GVW of little over 2 tonnes. So, in 207, with lesser load and strain, the engine should be lasting even longer. As I see it, Mahindra pick up could score over the 207 on the following fronts: Mahindra has leaf spring suspension at front which, though bad for driver's comfort, improves tyre life, involves lesser maintenance and contributes to (over)load carrying capability. Mahindra comes with radial tyres as opposed to nylon in 207 Mahindra have been offering a bigger load body Mahindra have been offering a flat bed for longer time (Tata have introduced one only recently) Mahindra might be lower priced (don't know if it's true) Mahindra spares might be cheaper (can't say if that's true) My choice: 207 of course! It would also be interesting to conduct a survey of Tata 407 versus Mahindra LCV (the erstwhile Allwyn Nissan Cabstar). Last edited by directinjection : 14th February 2007 at 12:55.
	() Thanks

14th February 2007, 13:03	#13
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,018 Times View My Garage	The point about having cross-ply's is about lower cost and also about ability to retread these tires to increase their life. The typical attitude that users of this category show..
	() Thanks

14th February 2007, 21:47	#14
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	Doesn't the 207 DI bharat stage II have the same engine and peripherals as the spacio gold. If so, there is no truth in these claims by Mahindra, they are Mahindra internal anyway, looks like someone wants to impress the internal management or is due for promotion. The Spacio Gold has come a long way from the way the 407 engine started in the Spacio. The Spacio gold is much more refined and has better pulling power than the Bolero DI (according to users here), hence the same comparison should hold for the 207 DI vs Maxx.
	() Thanks

15th February 2007, 10:31	#15
IMP BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 123 Thanked: 30 Times	The tata 207 may soon be sold in Argentina as a fiat branded light truck Tatas, Fiat JV for commercial vehicles-India Business-NEWS-The Times of India interesting stuff this, but it shows IMO the level of bonding between tata-fiat, i am waiting for future fiats in india with better after sales.
	() Thanks