[Theyota]

Originally Posted by Hayek

The folks who can own yachts very often don’t have the ability to maintain or sail them. You have professional crew and companies (often run by former merchant navy professionals) who do the maintenance and sailing duties.

I don't think your statement would apply at least for the US. You are probably right for about 20-30% of yachts owners. The others, almost all those who own <50 ft yachts are very hands on people. I was living in a town near Beaufort, NC for 7 years on the US east cost which is kind of a mini sailing capital. Most of owners are average retired folk or typical company employees. They are all extremely hands on people who did most of the work on their own. My town also had a DIY yard, where you can sail your yacht to, rent space, lift your boat out of water and rent tools to do stuff like hull maintenance on your own. I had a couple of colleagues who owned 30 year old yachts whose age could not be guessed by a novice like me. They were DIY maintained in top condition. What I observed was, there was always something do and sometime they can be money pits. Many hobbies are.

[Starwar19]

What a wonderful thing to own! Congratulations Sir, I was reading about your amazing and outstanding experiences in different countries. We will be much updated about Yachts now on, learning from your experiences and lessons.
You have given me serious Aspirations in life.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Theyota

Beautiful boat. I have a hard time differentiating between a motor yacht and a cruising trawler.

I've never heard of a cruising trawler, but then I have not even been reading about boats for two or three decades. I note from Jeroen's reply that they do, indeed, exist. Seems weird to me: it it doesn't trawl, how can it be called a trawler?

Originally Posted by Redex

40 plus years ago my family spent many summers navigating Hollands waterways. We had a 40 foot wooden ketch (built at Paglesham Essex UK in about 1961).

Super! I used to sail with a friend, out of Ipswich where he owned and lived aboard his own 1938-built, 44-foot cutter. Mostly Thames-Estuary weekends, but crossed the North Sea with him a couple of times. Thanks to Google, here she is: Yacht Cayenne.

Originally Posted by Miyata

Question: How does the car-life compare with a boat-life? For instance, most of us may not go in a for a typical 2006 car...is there a similar compare for boats?

See my previous comment, and Cayenne is probably young for classic wooden boat. But it takes a lot of care and maintenance. Hence the saying that one might as well stand under a cold shower tearing up high-value currency notes

(foot note: the mast and boom seen on the linked page are not original, they had been wooden, and were when I knew the boat. My friend was sailing off the coast of Africa when they were dismasted by a sudden gust. He and his crew had a rough time. They were not rescued, and were down to final-grains-of-rice by the time they were able to reach port)

Jeroen, many congratulations of your new boat. I only just now found this thread, and have subscribed with enthusiasm!

What has your wife got against The North Sea? Well, OK, I know what I have got against it: it is not very deep, and kicks up a horrible choppy sea in a serious blow.

I'm sure you will have wonderful times voyaging on your country's inland water. And she looks like a proper boat. Very fine. No trace of "gin palace" about her. Beautiful!

Looking forward to more in March.

Another note on professionally-skippered/crewed pleasure boats. One has to get fairly big before there is anything like enough space aboard. I've sailed boats from 26 to 44 foot: no space no privacy. Motor boats may have more, but not a lot.

But, In India, that may be viewed differently? Thinking about it now, I remember being very surprised to see people having professional drivers for the smallest of cars here. In UK, I doubt that I ever saw a chauffeur driving anything less than a Jaguar.

[Jeroen]

It's time for an update on our boat. We have not been sailing her yet, but we have been busy doing all sorts of preparations.

She is still at her original marina, in this massive hall. There are about 50 yachts crammed into this hall. Protected from the elements, but not necessarily from birds and their droppings, as I found out!



I have been back and forth several times. Just to enjoy sitting in my new boat and fiddling with it. Checking out various things and systems. I took all the documentation with me back home, three thick binders full of various stuff. I have been going through every scrap of paper on this boat, re-organising it all to suit my needs.

I am getting more and more pleased with our purchase and I can't wait to get her back into the water. We are aiming for early March. I have also decided to do a full upgrade of the boat's electronics. Currently, the boat is equipped with one VHF radio, one integrated chart plotter, depth sounder, fish founder and radar. And one complete auto-pilot installation.

I wanted to add AIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...ication_system)

AIS allows you to track other ships and those other ships can track you too. It is an extremely useful tool. It is mandatory on ships above 300 tonnes. So I don't need one, but as we will be sailing on large rivers, canals and for instance the Wester Schelde (Estuary to for instance Antwerpen Port) we will be battling it out there with dozens and dozens of very large barges, and tugboats, cruise ships and so on. So for small yachts like us, there is a special version (cheaper and a bit more limited in functionality).

When I started looking into how to integrate AIS in my current electronic set it became obvious it would be a bit of a challenge. I am lucky as Ad, the previous owner, did an upgrade only a few years ago of the autopilot. And it looks like I can leave most if not all of the autopilot components in place. This is helpful as the autopilot is remarkably the most expensive component!!

Here you can see the ship's control. Notice the VHF radio, the large Raymarine kit (essentially a large display which functions as radar display, chart plotter, depth sounder, fish finder etc) and just below it a smaller Raymarine bit of kit the autopilot. In front of the steering wheel, the big grey box is the Yanmar engine controls. To the right, the little joystick controls the anchor winch. Above it the bow thruster controls. To the left of the Yanmar controls the trim tab controls and the engine power and forward/reverse lever. Right above the VHF radio are the various battery, convertor and solar panel controls and to the left of it you will see three gauges. These are level indicators for the fuel, water and grey water tanks. The display just above the large Raymarine is an LED display for the reverse camera mounted at the rear of the mast.



Currently, I have a Naviman VHF radio and everything else is from Raymarine. I will go for a full Raymarine electronic suite. It will also mean that some of this stuff on the little mast is going to be replaced.



The mast, by the way, can be tilted so it sits horizontally. Important as with the mast up, the boat's height is 4 meters and with it lowered only 2,5 meters! Makes a big difference for sailing under bridges! More on this in a minute.

Yesterday my wife came along as well. We wanted to check out the inventory of the cabin and the galley and she is in charge!

This was the first time she revisited our boat, after we had bought it end of September last year.

All hands, all hands, attention: Mrs. D has the conn!!



This is the view from the aft cockpit forward. We also have a big "tent" to cover the cockpit, but we have not installed it yet. We might do so later in the season. Mrd. D does not do well in the sun, so we need to provide adequate shade.



These aft doors open all three for easy access to the main cabin. Notice the other boats on the port (left) and starboard (right) of us? They stack these boats incredibly tight to one another. It is a real game of Tetris to move as many boats into this hall.



The little galley (kitchen)



Taking inventory means opening up every cupboard, taking everything out, checking it and when we need something new putting it on our list of stuff to buy.



This is the forward cabin, which has two permanent bunks. (beds) Ad left us all the bed linen, some pillows and so on. But Mrs D has decided we need something else altogether. Underneath the two mattresses, right in the front of the bow are two spaces. One is for access to the electronic control and the e-motor of the bow thruster. The other one has a small safe box to keep valuables safe on the boat.



Me trying out the starboard bunk for size. Good fit. I am 1,93 meters and I fit easily into this little space!



The Heads (toilet and shower). These days, boats are not allowed to discharge anything overboard. So the toilet and the shower and the sink empty out of special waste water tank (so called grey or black water tank). Many Marina's have facilities to emout your grey water tank. Toilets on small yachts like outs always have various controls and buttons.

There is a three-way way valve installed. I can direct everything into the grey water tank or overboard (which is illegal unless I am at sea)



We have a little fridge, with a small freezer compartment. Importtor to make ice cubes for our G&T at the end of a sailing day!



I was very happy to see this finally installed. It is the CE compliance tag. I explained in the earlier posts, Ad did not have the CE Conformity certificate. Without,t it he could not sell us the boat. So he had to initiate and pay, for a complete new CE certification. It is all been done, although I still need to get the actual certificate, we have a mail from the certification body that everything is in order.



Stuck away inside one of the little cupboards in the Heads were two first aid boxes. We checked their contents. We just threw out a few of the medicines that were overdue, but otherwise, we are well-equipped when it comes to providing first aid!



Here is a better overview of the main cabin. Notice the table that has two folding halves. On these boats, space is always limited. The sofa on the starboard side can also be converted into a double bunk.



As I mentioned earlier I have been back and forth several times. Taking inventory of everything on the boat is a big job. Ad left us with so much stuff! Very happy with it, but it all needs sorting. So I have this little diagram in my notebook and I go through each and every locker, cupboard, hiding hole, take everything out, write down what we have, and repack everything.



This is locker 1, sorry not a very good image. But its main purpose is to hold the gas bottle. As part of the purchasing agreement and the CE recertification, the hose and reducer needed replacing. These gas hoses need replacing every three years!



Locker 2, is full of all kinds of ropes, big ropes, small ropes, long ropes, and short ropes!



Locker 3, all kinds of cleaning material, anti-freeze for the engine, wiper fluid (yes we have two wipers and both have a little wiper spray nozzle too)



This locker 3 is on the floor of the cockpit, so its door sits upright when you pull it open. Ad made these nifty little gadgets, a piece of elastic and a simple clamp, to secure it in the open position.



Another cool little detail in the cockpit. This is a hose, that retracts automatically. It can be used to shower when you have been swimming, clean a fish you caught, hose down the cockpit etc.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Super, Jeroen! Looking forward to much more even before the maiden voyage. I'm sure there will be with the electronics updates etc

At the start of the post, I was hoping that you found time to sit at the controls, making engine noises, turning the wheel, and moving the throttle. Later, I found that it was Mrs Jeroen who had been doing that

Is it usual for a boat of that size to have a bow thruster? Is it a thing like power steering in small cars: unnecessary but expected? Or just a case of hey, why not!

It is decades since I went to sea (or river even!) but my critical eye immediately wondered if there is a way to lash down the navigation seat? Whilst you are not going to sea, I'm sure you'll get some wavelets in the lakes and estuaries, not to mention the wash from other vessels.

For me, Sirion is now the most interest "vehicle" on this site!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Is it usual for a boat of that size to have a bow thruster? Is it a thing like power steering in small cars: unnecessary but expected? Or just a case of hey, why not!

These days almost all small vessels, motor yachts, sailing yachts and even small sloops tend to have a bow thruster. I will say that by and large most owners rely on their bow thruster way too much. I always say the sound of the bow thruster is a sign of incompetence. You should be able to control your boat, without it too.

Having said that, it is very convenient and these small boats are very susceptible to wind and currents, so it does help in close-quarter manoeuvring. But any skipper worth his/her salt will always try to use bow (and stern) thruster to the minimum.


Just some more updates on what we have been doing. My wife and I also visited a nearby ship Chandler. This is one of the largest, if not the largest ship chandler catering for pleasure crafts we have in the Netherlands. So it's a bit like a candy store for the recreational skippers such as me! But bring a credit card, because nothing is cheap here!!

One of the things we wanted was a life jackets. Ad left us several. But they are old, although never used. But they are not very comfortable to wear and I also need to overhaul them.

I had visited this store before and the sales guy had shown me all the various life jackets. He also told me: never to buy a life jacket without trying it on. Bring your crew and let everybody choose one that fits him/her best.

So me and Mrs D, showed up and sure enough he recognized me: I see you brought the crew!

When it comes to life Jackets there are a few variants. Self-inflating or not. We went with self-inflating. When you fall overboard, the jacket will self-inflate. For sea/ocean-going use the life jacket might also be equipped with a special hook to attach a safety line. We don't need that.

All these life jackets, adult size, will produce at least 150N buoyancy. Which is adequate to keep a full-sized adult with his/her head out of the water. Technically, it is all one size fits all. But we found differences between the various makes. In the end, Mrs D chose hers and I chose mine and then we took an extra one of each. So we got four new life jackets, two variants in terms of fit.

We also got a smaller version for the grandchildren!



I got several nautical presents for Christmas from our kids.

I got a little book about knots. I do know a few knots, but I really need to brush up on my knot-tying skills and so does Mrs. D. So I took one of the ropes home with me, so we can practice our knot-tying skills in the weeks to come.



I am also immensely pleased with this Christmas present from Mrs. D. Well, I found it and bought it. It is a Steiner Navigator 7x50 binoculars, with build in compass.

I always wanted one of these. Last year after we bought Sirion, I started looking for a pair. I found a shop that specialised in two things, walking shoes and binoculars. I also happened to need a new pair of walking shoes. If you recall my thread about our big hike in Crete, my old pair was done for.

I met with the owner who spent about an hour and a half talking to me. I was very lucky as he had just traded in this pair of Steiner. So I got it really cheap!!



Another "must have" for anybody with a boat, is a large knife. There are situations where you might have to slash a rope in a hurry. This one will be kept at the ready next to the steering stand.

I witnessed an almost very nasty accident in one of the many locks here in the Netherlands. A small yacht, similar to ours, came into the lock. You never tie up in a lock, you keep the ropes in your hands. This yacht was also owned and run by a couple, similar in age as we are. They did everything correctly, but the water in the lock dropped very quickly, one line got tangled and got stuck. Which meant the boat was starting to be lifted out of the water. The guy ran inside the cabin, grabbed his knife and managed to cut the line. Just in time!!



When we were in Barbados earlier this year, I also got myself a proper pennant of the Bridgetown yacht club. We have been (temporary) members for more than forty years. I still need to get the pennant from our home marina too. Both will be hung on our little mast permanently.



Another Christmas present from one of our kids; a proper yachts log book.



Quite empty still!! But we have big ambitions to start filling these pages from mid-March onwards!!



Also got a dry bag, which will be our grab bag. The idea is you keep all your valuables, (passports, wallets, ship papers, licenses etc) in this bag. If anything major happens you just "grab" this bag and leave the rest!



I have also spent a lot of time, re-organising and updating some of the boat's documentation and papers.

I have made two small plastic binders. One will contain all the ship drawings and a few copies of several pages out of several manuals. Basic stuff that you need to have handy all the time.



Ad had made these excellent inventory lists. Very useful and handy. He has also provided me with the original Excel and Word files of all the drawings and documents he made. So I can easily update and maintain them.



I have also had to update several of my personal papers and licenses. The radio license has been transferred from Ad to me as well. I keep copies of everything onboard. Some of the papers, in particular the radion licenses, need to be kept on the boat and only the original will do. Hefty fines apply if you can't produce the correct paperwork.



Still waiting on my RYA Radio Certificate and a new VAT declaration. (which is a requirement when crossing the border.

Another relevant certificate that needs to be onboard; the gas certificate. The cooker/oven works on gas. I have shown the gas bottle locker and the new hose and reducer. As part of the certification, a guy checked out the complete system. This is just the front page of a report of 27 pages, certifying the gas installation on Sirion!



I always have notebooks for everything. I love my little notebooks. All my notebooks are from Moleskine. Made famous as Hemmingway apparently, used them.



I have also been experimenting with various apps for planning our trips. I have bought one I like. It plans your trip based on the draught of your boat and your height. It provides you with all relevant information on all waterways. So for instance the size of locks, height of bridges, notices to vessels etc etc.

Very useful.




All in all, I am very happy fiddling with our boat. Still, lots to do and prepare.

The next big milestone, is the upgrade of all the electronics!1

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

I rather enjoyed ropework. Even a bit of the decorative stuff, although I didn't get as far as the complex mats. Nor did I get as far as splicing braided lines. But I could manage loops and joins in three-strand and even did a long splice once, at work, for one of those hand operated goods lifts which requires a continuous loop. I so much admire the rigging guys who can do this stuff in steel rope!

I may be only an amateur, but I humbly suggest that you start your practice by whipping the ends of your rope!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I may be only an amateur, but I humbly suggest that you start your practice by whipping the ends of your rope!

Although it might look nice it is not necessary. A lot of modern ropes are made of various “plastics”. The ends are molten. When you buy these ropes to a specific length, they don’t cut them with a knife. They use what is essentially a soldering gun, which will slice through the rope and molt it.

I don’t know how to splice ropes. But my next door neighbour is pretty good at it. Once I got Sirion in it’s permanent mooring, I like to have the mooring lines made to specific length. Makes for easier boat handeling, especially when sailing single handed.

Jeroen

[majumon]

Just been glued to your detailed post on the yacht and iam thoroughly enjoying every bit of it.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Although it might look nice it is not necessary. A lot of modern ropes are made of various “plastics”. The ends are molten. When you buy these ropes to a specific length, they don’t cut them with a knife. They use what is essentially a soldering gun, which will slice through the rope and molt it.

tl;dr ... do whip your rope ends!

Yes. And when I cut it, I melt the ends in a flame. But this does not render whipping unnecessary, because that molten, set plastic is brittle and can break apart. This may seldom happen in practice, but it is better prevented. Also, shops usually use a hot knife. Very neat, but it doesn't melt much. And a whipped end looks so much smarter.

This is my basic synthetic rope gyanam:-

Polyester: little stretch, and can be bought pre-stretched to reduce further. Rigging.
Nylon: some stretch. Having some "give" is useful for mooring lines and anchor lines

We don't have to consider fancy stuff like Kevlar unless we are cutting-edge racing yachtsmen . With heaps of disposable income.

Polypropylene: has to mentioned. Often, in India, called "nylon," which it absolutely isn't, it is probably the synthetic rope people see the most, from washing lines to fishing nets. Beloved of fishermen: because it's cheap. It's very often blue, yellow or orange and it feels more plastic than the others. It has no resistance to UV and degrades quickly. Actually a very poor choice for washing line!

Polypropylene has two qualities (apart from not lasting long): it is cheap; it floats on water.

Because it floats, I used to take aboard a safety line which I made: a length of polypropylene rope with a large monkey's-fist knot at one end. Intended for throwing, in case of man overboard. I'm glad to say that I never had to use it for real

Natural-fibre ropes are only of interest to the real enthusiast or decorative worker. I used to have some one-inch cotton rope for decorative play: very soft. The hairy stuff sold in Indian hardware shops is coir, made from coconut fibre. Very rough on the hands.

Even those who need a totally-authentic look for their 200-yr-old gaffer with big wooden blocks can find synthetic line made to look right for that. Who wants stuff that rots if given a chance, and changes its tension when it gets wet or dries!

(Sorry... forty years ago I could have waxed even more lyrical about rope. So you're lucky I can't now )

My Ashley Book of Knots was lost in the Chennai flood of 2015. So was my copy of Adlard Coles' Heavy Weather Sailing: I'm actually quite amused that that was destroyed by an urban flood!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

do whip your rope ends!

Afterthought: Shrinkwrap might be a good alternative to traditional whipping.

But I do think that those ends need more protection than just the melt. If only because of the high price of marine ropes.

[Jeroen]

I am still waiting for the confirmation and quotation on how to upgrade my Raymarine electronic suite. Raymarine is still trying to figure out if parts of my auto pilot can work together with the new plotter. Fingers crossed!

Mrs. D has been busy sorting through all the linen we took off the Sirion. Ad left us with lots of bedding stuff, sheets, pillows, pillow covers, towels and so on.

It has all been washed and dried. Mrs. D has decided the undersheet will need to go. The mattress has a peculiar shape and she has found an online-shop that sells specific sheets for these sort of pear-shaped mattresses you find in small yachts.

She has also been to Ikea and picked up a bunch of stuff we, apparently, can't do without.

Such as a small drying rack. Not so much for our clothes, more for tea towels and so on.



There is a large Ikea bag sitting in my office.



Tonnes of stuff. Anything from pegs, toilet brush, washing up brush-, -soap, gloves, lots of utensils, very important a pizza cutter, various plastic containers, salt and pepper set etc.



Not to be outdone by Mrs. D in the facility and cleaning department I bought us a nice bucket and various soft wipes. This will be more to wipe the internal of the boat, clean of condensation and so on.



I have been on the lookout for a simple pair of boat shoes. Do you really need special boat shoes I hear you ask? Well, you can do without them. Boatshoes are handy to have for at least two reasons. They are made of soft materials, and won't damage your decks. Also, the same soft sole has a special thread that should also give you a better grip on what decks. So it is a safety thing as well.

Many boaters, in the summer, will hop around on bare feet on their boats. I must admit, we tend to do so too, especially when we are out in a boat in the tropics. But it does make sense to wear boat shoes for safety purposes, not just for additional grip, but also to protect your toes/feet from stepping into sharp edges, nails, glass and so on.

As one would expect, it is entirely possible to spend a small fortune on a pair of decent boat shoes. Boat shoes are often worn by landlubbers as some sort of fashion statement. Hence all the big moccasin shoe manufacturers tend to have various models in their range.

Mine are, what I see, as traditional/classic boat shoes. They are also dead cheap.



Non-slip sole



Here are two interesting items.

On the right, you see my snorkel set. I brought it with me from my mother-in-law's home in Barbados. As you might recall, she passed away last year and we recently visited it to clean up the house and so on.

This is a very good set, although it does look a bit murky and run-down. I must have had this set for more than 30 years, if not longer. It always lived in the understair cupboard of my mother-in-law. Only came out, when we were visiting.



On the right, is something that looks like a miniature set of suspenders. This little nifty device is to connect your cap to your shirt. So when it gets blown off, it doesn't end up in the drink.

It might not always be possible to turn around and safe a cap that went over the wall so to speak. So better make sure you hang on to yours.

Finally, I also bought a small hand pump. It can be used to extract water/oil from bilges and other small, narrow spaces. It comes with various inlet and outlet hoses.

I will be using it on the bow thruster compartment first thing, next time I visit Sirion. There is some water in there. I want to make sure everything is bone dry before putting her back into the water.



I have managed to get all my certificates in order. I got a new VAT declaration from Dutch customs as well. I might need it when travelling outside the Netherlands and specifically when returning to the Netherlands.

One certificate is still missing. My RYA Short Radio license. It is not a big thing. I still have my Dutch Radio license as well. They cover equal responsibilities, equipment and region. It's just that I took the exam last year and I want to have the certificate. Obviously!

I have begun to make a spread sheet to keep track of all the various safety equipment, installation/certification dates, maintenance of all components on the boat and so on. Lot of work as I have to go through all the manuals.

I do enjoy that, all part of owning a boat.

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

Sailing shoes... I got so comfortable in Docksiders (Sebago?) that I took to wearing them everywhere, every day. I heard they were not that expensive in their native USA. Sadly, in UK, they were (are?) rather expensive.

They do have more traction (if that's the word?) on most surfaces, but not, I noticed, on ice.

I have a VHF radio licence. I remember noticing, when I got it (after taking a test), that there is no expiry date on it. So I suppose it remains valid for life. I do not remember any of the things one has to know to operate the things.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Sailing shoes... I got so comfortable in Docksiders (Sebago?) that I took to wearing them everywhere, every day. I heard they were not that expensive in their native USA. Sadly, in UK, they were (are?) rather expensive.

They do have more traction (if that's the word?) on most surfaces, but not, I noticed, on ice.

I have a VHF radio licence. I remember noticing, when I got it (after taking a test), that there is no expiry date on it. So I suppose it remains valid for life. I do not remember any of the things one has to know to operate the things.

Yes, I have had Sebago’s too. Quite expensive these days.

Nor sure about the UK, but these days in the Netherlands both my radio and sailing license have no expiration dates. On my original certificates it had an experiationndate as per my 65th birthday. They did away with that. In the Netherlands I could have still used them as all authorities would be familiar with the expectation date not applying more.

But you don't want to have to explain that to a German or Belgium cop. So I got them both exchanged for new certificates. My old ones were pieces of paper, now I have two credit card size licenses.

Just to add to me previous post as I forgot to mention. The snorkel and diving goggles are not for a bit of fun diving. If anything gets caught in the prop I might have to jump in and get it cut off with my fancy knife I showed earlier.

If it's weeds, just reversing might do the trick, but ropes and fishing line are difficult to untangle once they get caught in a spinning prop.

Jeroen

[am1m]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I have also had to update several of my personal papers and licenses.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

This is just the front page of a report of 27 pages, certifying the gas installation on Sirion!

Sir, thanks for such a detailed description of an ownership experience that most of us dream about, I'm certainly enjoying reading your posts! But I'd caution you against posting personally identifiable information online, especially on a public forum. It would be better to mask or blur any license/photo/address/date of birth information before posting. Perhaps you could contact the mods to remove some of this info. Going through your post history, it would be relatively easy to put together a lot of information that could be used for identity theft or other cyberattacks. (Posting this here, instead of a PM so other members could also be aware.)

PS: Used to work in cybersecurity, so perhaps I'm a bit paranoid!