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Old 23rd January 2024, 14:17   #31
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re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing

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Originally Posted by SR-71 View Post
Nice article, I have an upcoming trip in Akasa and was wondering about its 737 MAX planes. Checked the equipment details again after reading the article above, Akasa seems to be an all MAX 8 fleet while the problem that impacted Alaska is MAX 9 specific.. Glad to know.
Well if you are really concerned then you should know that the MAX 8 had a more serious issue where it would nosedive on its own
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Old 23rd January 2024, 14:24   #32
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re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by SR-71 View Post
Checked the equipment details again after reading the article above, Akasa seems to be an all MAX 8 fleet while the problem that impacted Alaska is MAX 9 specific.. Glad to know.
Nearly correct but Akasa DOES operate a rare 737 Max 8-200 which has the identical config, BUT has the standard exit door rather than the now infamous 'door plug'. Better check the flight tracking sites to see if you're going to be on it.

Refer this post of mine:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...ml#post5695126

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Originally Posted by blackbandit View Post
Well if you are really concerned then you should know that the MAX 8 had a more serious issue where it would nosedive on its own
Both me and my better half flew them shortly after the Lion Air crash but before the DGCA banned them, and I can only wonder what could have happened had MCAS taken over.

Last edited by itwasntme : 23rd January 2024 at 14:26.
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Old 23rd January 2024, 15:39   #33
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re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing

Not directly related, but one of the Indian operators found a missing washer (upon investigation). Did not find this in mainstream media, hence sharing.

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Old 23rd January 2024, 16:08   #34
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re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing

I can visualize Ryanair and easyJet adding a paid option for walkaround checks by worried passengers to look for missing washers, nuts and fasteners!

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...977592692.html
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Old 23rd January 2024, 19:22   #35
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbandit View Post
Well if you are really concerned then you should know that the MAX 8 had a more serious issue where it would nosedive on its own
Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Nearly correct but Akasa DOES operate a rare 737 Max 8-200 which has the identical config, BUT has the standard exit door rather than the now infamous 'door plug'. Better check the flight tracking sites to see if you're going to be on it.
Lol, I guess I can only do what any "typical desi" does, pray to my favorite god before leaving home in the morning and then thank him after coming back late in the night. My prayers be like
  • Let the morning Indigo be on time with no slapgate delaying the flight
  • Let the night Akasa fly back with all its door intact and land where its says its supposed to land on the ticket

Last edited by SR-71 : 23rd January 2024 at 19:27.
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Old 24th January 2024, 00:44   #36
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Boeing Made a Change to Its Corporate Culture Decades Ago. Now It’s Paying the Price. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/o...-android-share

Nice analysis by new york times
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Old 24th January 2024, 10:52   #37
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Some serious allegations coming out on various blogs supposedly from a Boeing employee:

Current Boeing employee here – I will save you waiting two years for the NTSB report to come out and give it to you for free: the reason the door blew off is stated in black and white in Boeings own records. It is also very, very stupid and speaks volumes about the quality culture at certain portions of the business.

A couple of things to cover before we begin:

Q1) Why should we believe you?
A) You shouldn’t, I’m some random throwaway account, do your own due diligence. Others who work at Boeing can verify what I say is true, but all I ask is you consider the following based on its own merits.

Q2) Why are you doing this?
A) Because there are many cultures at Boeing, and while the executive culture may be throughly compromised since we were bought by McD, there are many other people who still push for a quality product with cutting edge design. My hope is that this is the wake up call that finally forces the Board to take decisive action, and remove the executives that are resisting the necessary cultural changes to return to a company that values safety and quality above schedule.

With that out of the way… why did the left hand (LH) mid-exit door plug blow off of the 737-9 registered as N704AL? Simple- as has been covered in a number of articles and videos across aviation channels, there are 4 bolts that prevent the mid-exit door plug from sliding up off of the door stop fittings that take the actual pressurization loads in flight, and these 4 bolts were not installed when Boeing delivered the airplane, our own records reflect this.

The mid-exit doors on a 737-9 of both the regular and plug variety come from Spirit already installed in what is supposed to be the final configuration and in the Renton factory, there is a job for the doors team to verify this “final” install and rigging meets drawing requirements. In a healthy production system, this would be a “belt and suspenders” sort of check, but the 737 production system is quite far from healthy, its a rambling, shambling, disaster waiting to happen. As a result, this check job that should find minimal defects has in the past 365 calendar days recorded 392 nonconforming findings on 737 mid fuselage door installations (so both actual doors for the high density configs, and plugs like the one that blew out). That is a hideously high and very alarming number, and if our quality system on 737 was healthy, it would have stopped the line and driven the issue back to supplier after the first few instances. Obviously, this did not happen. Now, on the incident aircraft this check job was completed on 31 August 2023, and did turn up discrepancies, but on the RH side door, not the LH that actually failed. I could blame the team for missing certain details, but given the enormous volume of defects they were already finding and fixing, it was inevitable something would slip through- and on the incident aircraft something did. I know what you are thinking at this point, but grab some popcorn because there is a plot twist coming up.

The next day on 1 September 2023 a different team (remember 737s flow through the factory quite quickly, 24 hours completely changes who is working on the plane) wrote up a finding for damaged and improperly installed rivets on the LH mid-exit door of the incident aircraft.

A brief aside to explain two of the record systems Boeing uses in production. The first is a program called CMES which stands for something boring and unimportant but what is important is that CMES is the sole authoritative repository for airplane build records (except on 787 which uses a different program). If a build record in CMES says something was built, inspected, and stamped in accordance with the drawing, then the airplane damn well better be per drawing. The second is a program called SAT, which also stands for something boring and unimportant but what is important is that SAT is *not* an authoritative records system, its a bullentin board where various things affecting the airplane build get posted about and updated with resolutions. You can think of it sort of like a idiots version of Slack or something. Wise readers will already be shuddering and wondering how many consultants were involved, because, yes SAT is a *management visibilty tool*. Like any good management visibilty tool, SAT can generate metrics, lots of metrics, and oh God do Boeing managers love their metrics. As a result, SAT postings are the primary topic of discussion at most daily status meetings, and the whole system is perceived as being extremely important despite, I reiterate, it holding no actual authority at all.

We now return to our incident aircraft, which was written up for having defective rivets on the LH mid-exit door. Now as is standard practice kn Renton (but not to my knowledge in Everett on wide bodies) this write-up happened in two forms, one in CMES, which is the correct venue, and once in SAT to “coordinate the response” but really as a behind-covering measure so the manager of the team that wrote it can show his boss he’s shoved the problem onto someone else. Because there are so many problems with the Spirit build in the 737, Spirit has teams on site in Renton performing warranty work for all of their shoddy quality, and this SAT promptly gets shunted into their queue as a warranty item. Lots of bickering ensues in the SAT messages, and it takes a bit for Spirit to get to the work package. Once they have finished, they send it back to a Boeing QA for final acceptance, but then Malicious Stupid Happens! The Boeing QA writes another record in CMES (again, the correct venue) stating (with pictures) that Spirit has not actually reworked the discrepant rivets, they *just painted over the defects*. In Boeing production speak, this is a “process failure”. For an A&P mechanic at an airline, this would be called “federal crime”.

Presented with evidence of their malfeasance, Spirit reopens the package and admits that not only did they not rework the rivets properly, there is a damaged pressure seal they need to replace (who damaged it, and when it was damaged is not clear to me). The big deal with this seal, at least according to frantic SAT postings, is the part is not on hand, and will need to be ordered, which is going to impact schedule, and (reading between the lines here)

However, more critical for purposes of the accident investigation, the pressure seal is unsurprisingly sandwiched between the plug and the fuselage, and you cannot replace it without opening the door plug to gain access. All of this conversation is documented in increasingly aggressive posts in the SAT, but finally we get to the damning entry which reads something along the lines of “coordinating with the doors team to determine if the door will have to be removed entirely, or just opened. If it is removed then a Removal will have to be written.” Note: a Removal is a type of record in CMES that requires formal sign off from QA that the airplane been restored to drawing requirements.

If you have been paying attention to this situation closely, you may be able to spot the critical error: regardless of whether the door is simply opened or removed entirely, the 4 retaining bolts that keep it from sliding off of the door stops have to be pulled out. A removal should be written in either case for QA to verify install, but as it turns out, someone (exactly who will be a fun question for investigators) decides that the door only needs to be opened, and no formal Removal is generated in CMES (the reason for which is unclear, and a major process failure). Therefore, in the official build records of the airplane, a pressure seal that cannot be accessed without opening the door (and thereby removing retaining bolts) is documented as being replaced, but the door is never officially opened and thus no QA inspection is required.
This entire sequence is documented in the SAT, and the nonconformance records in CMES address the damaged rivets and pressure seal, but at no point is the verification job reopened, or is any record of removed retention bolts created, despite it this being a physical impossibility. Finally with Spirit completing their work to Boeing QAs satisfaction, the two rivet-related records in CMES are stamped complete, and the SAT closed on 19 September 2023. No record or comment regarding the retention bolts is made.

I told you it was stupid.

So, where are the bolts? Probably sitting forgotten and unlabeled (because there is no formal record number to label them with) on a work-in-progress bench, unless someone already tossed them in the scrap bin to tidy up.

There’s lots more to be said about the culture that enabled this to happened, but thats the basic details of what happened, the NTSB report will say it in more elegant terms in a few years.
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Old 24th January 2024, 11:53   #38
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Right after the Indonesian and Ethiopian plane crashes, and the inuendos from Boeing as well as Americans in general on various social media that the problem was "their" pilots really and not "our" aircraft - the Indonesian planes' pilot was an Indian - I have been flying only IndiGo because they have only A 320s in their fleet. I avoid Spicejet and Akasa which fly only 737s.
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Old 28th January 2024, 19:37   #39
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

I hear from news that Boeing is not making any profit on 737-Max series unless the production increases to 50+/month (current rate is ~30/month). If think FAA is not going allow increasing the rate for sometime now. If they cannot properly manage installing bolts at this rate, then quality will only get worse if the rate increases.
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Old 28th January 2024, 19:44   #40
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

The 737-9 Max is back in the skies in the US, with an Alaska Airlines aircraft taking flight, after the three week grounding. And in a show of confidence, the COO of the airline sat next to the door plug on the flight.

Source
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Old 7th February 2024, 09:32   #41
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Looks like Boeing and Boeing only is responsible for this near-catastrophe, not Spirit.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...y%20report.pdf

Missing bolts picture:
Attached Thumbnails
Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing-737.jpeg  


Last edited by itwasntme : 7th February 2024 at 09:33.
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Old 7th February 2024, 10:31   #42
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Looks like Boeing and Boeing only is responsible for this near-catastrophe, not Spirit.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...y%20report.pdf

Missing bolts picture:
The two circled parts in the bottom of the pic are not bolts. Those are springs to aid pushing the door up and out in case of emergency.

The door plug is held by four bolts and also secured to 12 different locations along the side the door frame.
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Old 7th February 2024, 12:02   #43
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
The two circled parts in the bottom of the pic are not bolts. Those are springs to aid pushing the door up and out in case of emergency.
The picture is from the NTSB report itself.
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Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing-2.jpeg  

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Old 16th February 2024, 16:24   #44
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

Received as a Joke on Whatsapp.

Indigo passenger finds a screw in his sandwich, he’s shocked. Then he realizes it’s a Boeing aircraft. He faints
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Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landing-ggyr9c9woaajfyu.jpg  

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Old 17th February 2024, 12:53   #45
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Re: Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-9 MAX mid-cabin exit door blows out mid-air, forcing emergency landin

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Originally Posted by RM Motorsports View Post
Received as a Joke on Whatsapp.
Indigo passenger finds a screw in his sandwich, he’s shocked. Then he realizes it’s a Boeing aircraft. He faints
Well couldn't come at a better time. I hear that they are planning to lease a few 737 AC from Qatar Airways...
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