[Mustang Sammy]

“When one door closes, another one opens”.

David Calhoun
(CEO, Boeing)

[A M]

QC lapses especially in aviation are a BIG RED flag. So many incidents happening at short intervals are not just a reputation and business loss for Boeing, it will also affect the business of airlines that fly their aircrafts. I for one, am already consciously avoiding any airline/routes that are flying Boeings.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by A M

QC lapses especially in aviation are a BIG RED flag. So many incidents happening at short intervals are not just a reputation and business loss for Boeing, it will also affect the business of airlines that fly their aircrafts. I for one, am already consciously avoiding any airline/routes that are flying Boeings.

With the kind of duopoly that exists in the commercial aviation markets, one might as well stay at home half the time if such a criterion were to be applied.

[A M]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

With the kind of duopoly that exists in the commercial aviation markets, one might as well stay at home half the time if such a criterion were to be applied.

Well, if somebody is smart enough to plan their journeys, it is actually not very difficult to avoid a certain type of aircraft that is now infamous for its questionable safety. It is a personal choice if somebody would want to be conscious/proactive about one's own safety.

I'm not sure if you read this. These kinds of news generally are indicators that something is terribly wrong.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by A M

Well, if somebody is smart enough to plan their journeys, it is actually not very difficult to avoid a certain type of aircraft that is now infamous for its questionable safety. It is a personal choice if somebody would want to be conscious/proactive about one's own safety.

I'm not sure if you read this. These kinds of news generally are indicators that something is terribly wrong.

Keeping all the scandals aside, taking a bit of a practical view here. Indian market is served by Indigo and Air India group (AI/Express/Vistara), with a bit of Spice Jet and Akasa thrown in. How many sectors are there where there is a clear choice of flying either an Airbus or ATR or a Boeing 737 Max ? And then again, are the fares competitive ? How many of us live in so-called hub cities. Secondly, none of these airlines are backing out of their 737 Max orders. So do we really have a wide choice ? And let us not forget, Airbus's own FBW system has also had gremlins, and erstwhile Indian Airlines was an early guinea pig at the cost of 90+ lives at BLR. Yes, over time, things improved considerably but there is always a bit of an x-factor in complex technologies.
I think at this point, with the kind of workload being imposed on flight crews due to the incessant expansion of services in India, I'd say crew training and fatigue would be a bigger cause of worry regardless of airplane type.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I think at this point, with the kind of workload being imposed on flight crews due to the incessant expansion of services in India, I'd say crew training and fatigue would be a bigger cause of worry regardless of airplane type.

True, however as I have said often and backed up by endless research, the most critical part of aviation safety is attitude.

A case of very poor attitude;

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...108829830.cms#

What I find unbelievable is that AirIndia policy on drinking

Failing a breathalyser test for the first ti ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...campaign=cppst

And

In the first six months of 2023, 33 pilots and 97 cabin-crew had failed their breathalyser test
t

If you worry about aviation safety I would avoid AirIndia rather than Boeing!

Jeroen

[BlackBeard]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Right after the Indonesian and Ethiopian plane crashes, and the inuendos from Boeing as well as Americans in general on various social media that the problem was "their" pilots really and not "our" aircraft - the Indonesian planes' pilot was an Indian

Exactly, there was an TV program (Netflix or ABC) regarding the B737 Max safety after the Lion air & Ethiopian airlines incident and they were pretty blatant even stating "3rd world airlines & 3rd world pilots". The only reason they probably took note after the Ethiopian airlines accident was probably because of the high number of "white" casualties & many of the family members of the deceased passengers filed a lawsuit against Boeing.

[V.Narayan]

Using the posts by member @ A M as a reference point only. There have been some posts across the aviation threads of Team BHP expressing fears of flying in Boeing aircraft, any Boeing aircraft or in some cases the 737 only.

Sharing below my personal view based on my professional experience in aviation. I would not worry at all about other Boeing aircraft such as the 787, or 777 or 767 or 757 or 747. The 787's teething troubles are over and it has matured into a great airplane. It is the only one other than the 737 MAX to be designed in the new culture of Boeing where stock prices took precedence over engineering quality. Where the 737 MAX goes I believe the design deficiency troubles are over and those should not be mixed up with shortfalls in the production process serious & shocking as those are. But rightfully it will take a few years of safe flying for the public's confidence in the Boeing 737 MAX to be restored.

The older 737 NG series the -900, -800, -700, -600 which continue to fly extensively with Air India Express & Spicejet and several airlines across the world should not be mixed up with the 737 MAX. The NG series is a part of the old superbly designed 737 family and should not be clubbed with the 737 MAX.

Would I fly in a 737MAX after its design flaws were corrected circa 2021, yes I would.

Originally Posted by A M

QC lapses especially in aviation are a BIG RED flag. So many incidents happening at short intervals ..... I for one, am already consciously avoiding any airline/routes that are flying Boeings.

Originally Posted by A M

Well, if somebody is smart enough to plan their journeys, it is actually not very difficult to avoid a certain type of aircraft that is now infamous for its questionable safety. It is a personal choice if somebody would want to be conscious/proactive about one's own safety.

Thank you @fhdowntheline for hitting the nail on the head. Training and testing of the flight crew, the ground maintenance and flight support crews and the cabin crews IMHO are the Achilles heel of India's rapidly expanding airline industry. Your view is fully seconded by me in my post number#148 below

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/comme...k-over-11.html

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Keeping all the scandals aside, taking a bit of a practical view here.....
I think at this point, with the kind of workload being imposed on flight crews due to the incessant expansion of services in India, I'd say crew training and fatigue would be a bigger cause of worry regardless of airplane type.

[NomadSK]

Another scary moment for Boeing passengers as engine cowel falls. These are too many near misses for them to deal with. They have hands full in preventing crash of their stock prices.

A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-800 returned to Denver International Airport on Sunday after an engine cover fell off and struck a wing flap during takeoff, the Federal Aviation Administration said.

Link

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

Another scary moment for Boeing passengers as engine cowel falls. These are too many near misses for them to deal with. They have hands full in preventing crash of their stock prices.

First: it has nothing to do with a design flaw with the 737(in this case, a 737-800) or with Boeing QC issues.

For anyone worried, this was most likely a maintenance issue. The 737 has been flying for decades and still proves to be extremely reliable and safe.

Such engine cowl issues have happened in the past with the other aircraft types, including the 737's primary rival - the A320 series, too.




The engine cowls are designed to lift upward, allowing for inspection & maintenance of the engines. They are accessed regularly.

There are little latches that lock it in place. Maintenance department is not supposed to return a plane to the pilots without those latches locked, but pilots also have the responsibility to ensure that they are latched during their pre-flight “walk around” – a visual inspection of the aircraft & its components before every flight.

Apparently both of these practices failed to detect it in this case.

The cowls are unlikely to do any damage that threatens the integrity of the aircraft or bring the aircraft down. They might peel off & hit the tail, even in that case it’s still unlikely it would do life-threatening damage.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

For anyone worried, this was most likely a maintenance issue. The 737 has been flying for decades and still proves to be extremely reliable and safe.

Agreed prima facie its looks like a maintenance issue or QC issue with the spare parts. However, as a passenger, I will be bothered if it’s either a design flaw or a maintenance error.

The cowls are unlikely to do any damage that threatens the integrity of the aircraft or bring the aircraft down. They might peel off & hit the tail, even in that case it’s still unlikely it would do life-threatening damage.

I'm not sure about this. Can you throw some more light on this? As far as I remember, a piece of rubber was enough to bring down the concord.

[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

And let us not forget, Airbus's own FBW system has also had gremlins, and erstwhile Indian Airlines was an early guinea pig at the cost of 90+ lives at BLR.

The official report attributes it to pilot error. Then again, I know that there were changes made to the Flight Control Unit panel display after the Air Inter flight 148 accident report criticized.

Originally Posted by BlackBeard

The only reason they probably took note after the Ethiopian airlines accident was probably because of the high number of "white" casualties & many of the family members of the deceased passengers filed a lawsuit against Boeing.

Boeing simply could not ignore Ethiopian Airlines for so many reasons.

• First African carrier to order 787's
• First African airline to order and operate the 777-200LR
• Launch customer of 777 in Africa
• Ethiopian comprise about 32% of Africa's total fleet value
• They are one of the top airlines in Africa and a major customer for Boeing