[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by julupani

Do the above number's include LCV/ICV buses too or just the MCV/HCV buses only??

No this includes only Heavy buses.

Originally Posted by julupani

Because if its the 2nd option I am not at all surprised. Remember last year JNNURM orders, which is where Tata has had a major advantage, were not as high as previous years. And in the chassis only market, AL has a big lead.

Yes, but even in JNnurm orders was completed in last year only though the orders was placed earlier.
I am still unable to get the total numbers of bus orders received by AL and TM. THough vaguely I remember AL has got upto 5500 buses.

Originally Posted by julupani

Also if you see in the high HP long range bus chassis, AL has a even bigger lead. It is here that the buses get replaced more often. While with Tata buses, are operated by the smaller operators, not catering to the high end intercity market. Here the pace of replacement is much slower, thus denting the sales of Tata.

But my opition is in the intercity segment the procurement is very low and new buses procured is very frequently in the mofussil and city application only.

Originally Posted by julupani

Another possibility, though probability is very low, does Tata MarcoPolo Motors Limited show up as a separate company?? This is because, the Dharwad facility is officially not TML but TMML.

Though you are right the chassis sales is considered ( as TMML buys chassis from TML)

Originally Posted by julupani

OT: If you have independent data for all the manufacturer's sales numbers, it would be nice to see the figures of all the companies some place.

I am not able to furnish full details. will try if possible

[Transsenger]

"Ashok Leyland bags order for 290 Double Deckers for Bangladesh
Order worth more than USD 23 million
Hinduja Group flagship, Ashok Leyland has bagged an order for 290 fully-built Double Decker Buses from Bangladesh Road Transport Corporation (BRTC). Worth around USD 23.3 million, this represents the Company’s largest single order for Double Decker Buses from that country.
An agreement to this effect was signed by the Chairman of BRTC and Mr. Antony Lobo, Special Director-International Operations, Ashok Leyland at Dhaka last week.
Commenting on the order, Mr Vinod K Dasari, Managing Director, Ashok Leyland, said: “Bangladesh has always remained a very important market for us. Our continued focus on this robustly growing market has helped us establish ourselves today as the second largest brand in that country’s commercial vehicle market. We will continue to maintain this focus in the coming years”.

Would AL be the largest manufacturer of Double Decker buses in the world? Haven't come across any other make being ordered in such large numbers!

[julupani]

Well, my question is not whether they are the largest or not, but are they the only double decker city busmakers out there??

Double decker buses have pretty much been phased out all over the world. Though it does make sense in crowded cities like Dhaka, which cant afford to go in for Metro or BRTS systems.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by kamboj

As per them a TATA bus is like a spouse, if you take a great care in handling it, it will serve you well. While AL bus is like a pro*****te it will take all the abuse and still serve you well.

Interesting. I've seen the same comparison come up while comparing tata cars elswhere in our auto forums. I guess my indica has prepared me well for marriage!

Regarding the Front door provision in Kerala MV rules, I Recall my dad saying that they had lost quite a few lives ( passengers trying to board from the front door of a moving bus. If you lost step, your foot was almost certainly going to be under the front wheel) , and that was one of the reasons why the rule came to be.

nevertheless, i recall travelling in at least one KeSRTC bus where there was a door right in front, to the side of the engine. But it was mighty inconvenient ( as you can imagine in an old KeSRTC Comet)

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

greenhorn - your dad is right about that fatalaty rates in case of front-of-front-wheel doors. But, that rule is only for "stage carriages" - and all KeSRTC buses are stage carriages. ;-D

[Transsenger]

Here is some extract from the article published in CV (May2011 issue). Its an interview with KT Rajashekhara, CEO - SRS Travels, who has won the "Private sector bus fleet operator of the year" Apollo CV Awards2011.
An operator with 600AL, 500TML, 200Eicher and 300SML buses, says, when it comes to good after sales service and good resale value, AL is the right pick.

[julupani]

Well, I dont know how less than 40% turns out to be "most".

Also, about the resale value, I would imagine in the south ALL would have more resale value and in the north it would shift to Tata. So obviously it makes sense for him to have more ALL from resale point of view.

In fact the overall SRS fleet break-up is pretty much reflective of the bus market in the south, isnt it.

[pamiboy]

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, my question is not whether they are the largest or not, but are they the only double decker city busmakers out there??

Double decker buses have pretty much been phased out all over the world. Though it does make sense in crowded cities like Dhaka, which cant afford to go in for Metro or BRTS systems.

I tend to disagree. One visit to London will show you that double decker city buses are alive and thriving. The manufacturers of thoses buses likely have larger order bulks than Ashok Leyland. Also national express and Megabus run several long distance services with double decker buses in UK and US. In addition almost all the sightseeing tour buses in US are double deckers (trolleys excluded) and they aren't about to die out any sooner. [eg: greyline tours, citysightsny tours, dctours etc]

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by pamiboy

In addition almost all the sightseeing tour buses in US are double deckers (trolleys excluded) and they aren't about to die out any sooner

In fact, i noticed more double deckers on road in my recent trip to US compared to few years back. May be high fuel prices may be the reason. Also the DD buses imporved, these VanHool Rear Engine, LowFloor DD buses does not look that huge and seats more. Lot of companies uses these to transport employees and also preferred by tour operators.
Marcopolo is a leader in DD buses, hope we will see DD buses from TM stable in the near future.

Originally Posted by julupani

So obviously it makes sense for him to have more ALL from resale point of view.

In fact i was surprised to hear that SRS got 500+ TM buses, where as most of the big South Indian operators got NONE. Is there any other private operator in India (North/South) who got more than 500 TM buses?

[Transsenger]

Originally Posted by julupani

Well, I dont know how less than 40% turns out to be "most".

The numbers may not be exact, but its easily understood that SML buses would be LCV and a part of Eicher will also be LCV buses. Considering the fleet mix, i believe, this opinion is siginificant as far as this thread "Tata vs Ashok Leyland" is considered. Also unlike TN, Karnataka is relatively Tata friendly market. Meanwhile, I was also surpried to note that they have 500 TML buses.

[julupani]

Well, even if we consider all the SML and Eicher buses as LCV ones, would you say with a 6:5 mix of MCV buses that most of the fleet is ALL. If you say "most", I would hope for at worst a 75% favour for ALL.

Also, like I said, overall it makes business sense for SRS to buy more Leyland, as in my view reselling older Leylands would be easier in the south than reselling older Tatas.

Also, I would like to point out that the comments you have underlined are not a direct quote, thus subject to manipulation by the writer of the article.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by Transsenger

Meanwhile, I was also surpried to note that they have 500 TML buses.

SRS is not only a prominent intercity operator in intercity segment, but they carry lot of employees for companies as well.
Apart from Hispano I have rarely seen a Tata bus in a intercity route. I believe this number is mostly from ICV's only.

[silversteed]

SRS' TM buses are not all ICVs. They do have quite a lot of TM buses ferrying employees. That's where the 500 TM buses make sense. Yeah, they have a lot of TM ICVs too.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

Marcopolo is a leader in DD buses, hope we will see DD buses from TM stable in the near future.

What is the chassis powering these DD's.

[Ashley2]

Current Market share