[Transsenger]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

News paper reports say 420 new KerSRTC buses will be on road before June end, of which around 300 are Tatas (I guess same old 1512c) and the rest AL. Also the total includes 50 no of 12M buses (Can not make out from the report, whether these are AL or TM).

Sources indicate that KeSRTC has placed orders with Tata for 50nos of LPO1612 BS2, 6200mmWB chassis with rear air suspension and front weveller suspension.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

News paper reports say 420 new KerSRTC buses will be on road before June end, of which around 300 are Tatas (I guess same old 1512c) and the rest AL. Also the total includes 50 no of 12M buses (Can not make out from the report, whether these are AL or TM).

All the 300s are not full size buses. About 50% would be regular 1512s and the rest would be cut-chassis - not clear if it would be 1512 or 1510. The Leylands are full size buses - intended for Super Fast.

As Transsenger already mentioned, 50 TATA 1612 Chassis have been ordered. From sources, I hear that some chassis are already at Kozhikode Workshop getting their bodies built. These buses would be built as Super Express with 2x2 Push back seats.

[smashnerd]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

News paper reports say 420 new KerSRTC buses will be on road before June end, of which around 300 are Tatas (I guess same old 1512c) and the rest AL. Also the total includes 50 no of 12M buses (Can not make out from the report, whether these are AL or TM).

Finally, Tata gets it's share of the pie. I do think the 1512's will be better than the standard AL fair, but the 1510 is definitely underpowered.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by smashnerd

Finally, Tata gets it's share of the pie. I do think the 1512's will be better than the standard AL fair, but the 1510 is definitely underpowered.

Definitely not - TATA is still not able to reduce the vibrations its buses pass on to the passengers. My statement is not based on the Vibration levels in buses with bodies built by local companies - but the TATA Marcopolo. The AL buses might look bad (Looks are subjective), but they are definitely better than the Vibrating contraptions from TATA.

[smashnerd]

Originally Posted by binaiks

Definitely not - TATA is still not able to reduce the vibrations its buses pass on to the passengers. My statement is not based on the Vibration levels in buses with bodies built by local companies - but the TATA Marcopolo. The AL buses might look bad (Looks are subjective), but they are definitely better than the Vibrating contraptions from TATA.

I do agree with you on the vibrations. But, what I meant about Tata 1512's being better was about their acceleration.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by smashnerd

But, what I meant about Tata 1512's being better was about their acceleration.

Better than? I'd rate the acceleration of both the 1512 and the Leyland Viking equal. In the good olden days, Leylands used to be slower than TATAs in Acceleration - but not anymore. The 1510s are horrible when it comes to pick-up with full load - have experienced KeSRTC's 1510s struggling out of bus stops during peak hours with full load of passengers.

Acceleration also depends on the Driver - good drivers are known to create miracles with the worst underpowered vehicles! I have done Trichur to Bangalore in just shade over 8 hours in a TATA 1616 Globus - when a Volvo (of KaSRTC) took more than 9 hours to do the same distance!

[smashnerd]

Originally Posted by binaiks

Better than? I'd rate the acceleration of both the 1512 and the Leyland Viking equal. In the good olden days, Leylands used to be slower than TATAs in Acceleration - but not anymore. The 1510s are horrible when it comes to pick-up with full load - have experienced KeSRTC's 1510s struggling out of bus stops during peak hours with full load of passengers.

Acceleration also depends on the Driver - good drivers are known to create miracles with the worst underpowered vehicles! I have done Trichur to Bangalore in just shade over 8 hours in a TATA 1616 Globus - when a Volvo (of KaSRTC) took more than 9 hours to do the same distance!

Yup, 1510's are snail's pace. On the other two, maybe someone needs to do a road test just to settle things.

Maybe the whole one is better than the other is all about perception. Because I can attest to have been on an AL where the driver managed to climb in 3rd gear when others stuck to 2nd.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by binaiks

All the 300s are not full size buses. About 50% would be regular 1512s and the rest would be cut-chassis - not clear if it would be 1512 or 1510.

You may be right, but the news paper report says only 30 are cut chasis.

Originally Posted by smashnerd

Finally, Tata gets it's share of the pie. I do think the 1512's will be better than the standard AL fair

Even with the private bus operators, Tata is regaining some of the lost ground. Few years back, there were hardly any TM buses in Kottayam, but now one could spot few. Also few TM buses are running successfully in highranges also.

Originally Posted by binaiks

Vibrating contraptions from TATA.

But the fact is, Tata Motos is wolds second largest Bus manufacturer(Who is largest, Volvo or Benz?), If the product is as crappy as you say, how can the company sell in such large nos?

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

But the fact is, Tata Motos is wolds second largest Bus manufacturer(Who is largest, Volvo or Benz?), If the product is as crappy as you say, how can the company sell in such large nos?

I never said their products are crappy. AND, selling in high volumes alone is not a justification of the quality of products - quite a large volume of TATA buses are exported to poor countries, and these numbers certainly get added to their sales share.

One can easily justify my statement by just traveling in a TATA bus - even the Marcopolo vibrates as badly as a local built TATA bus. If they are certainly a good manufacturer, they should've been able to reduce vibrations long back - that is not the case with TATA.

[smashnerd]

Originally Posted by binaiks

I never said their products are crappy. AND, selling in high volumes alone is not a justification of the quality of products - quite a large volume of TATA buses are exported to poor countries, and these numbers certainly get added to their sales share.

One can easily justify my statement by just traveling in a TATA bus - even the Marcopolo vibrates as badly as a local built TATA bus. If they are certainly a good manufacturer, they should've been able to reduce vibrations long back - that is not the case with TATA.

Lets get this straight, any bus with leaf springs or even waveller suspensions is going to give you a harsh ride. You need a good air suspension kit to bring car like comfort to buses.

Now about Tata-Marcopolo, only their chassis has been designed by Marcopolo. The body and engine are fitted by Tata. Both Tata and AL have never really sold buses with bodies. It's always been chassis sale to customers who then get the body built by a third-party. This means they have no experience of manufacturing the whole bus. Now Volvo's are backed by years of experience and that means that they will be the better product. Tata and AL both need time to bring up their quality. Plus one needs to remember that Tata is selling it's Marcopolo's at half the Volvo's price, so quality is going to suffer.

[binaiks]

Originally Posted by smashnerd

Lets get this straight, any bus with leaf springs or even waveller suspensions is going to give you a harsh ride. You need a good air suspension kit to bring car like comfort to buses.

We were talking of vibrations here - not harshness during ride. Ashok Leyland buses with Leaf Springs/Waveller Suspensions do not vibrate as much as TATA buses, why?

Originally Posted by smashnerd

Plus one needs to remember that Tata is selling it's Marcopolo's at half the Volvo's price, so quality is going to suffer.

Lets clear air here: The TATA Marcopolo model that is equivalent to the Volvo (ULF, RE, Air-Con, Kneeling Function, etc) sells at 67 Lakhs, compared to the Volvo at 80 Lakhs. There is no "half-price" here! This Marcopolo model vibrates as much as a 1512 bus with body built by KeSRTC.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by binaiks

quite a large volume of TATA buses are exported to poor countries

AL being a better product, why are they not able to export to poor countries?

[prmd_cochin]

TATA's vibration while idling is a long term issue and its quite baffling that they havnt done qnything to sort it out. AL's similar bus's dont have this vibration. So definitly leafsprings arnt an issue. Its just plainly put TATA's absolute disregard ofr its customers. And this can be seen in their passenger car segments too, how can a utlity vehicle maker like Mahindra come out with a Scorpio thats is inifintly better in fit and finish and build quality.

[smashnerd]

Originally Posted by binaiks

We were talking of vibrations here - not harshness during ride. Ashok Leyland buses with Leaf Springs/Waveller Suspensions do not vibrate as much as TATA buses, why?

Lets clear air here: The TATA Marcopolo model that is equivalent to the Volvo (ULF, RE, Air-Con, Kneeling Function, etc) sells at 67 Lakhs, compared to the Volvo at 80 Lakhs. There is no "half-price" here! This Marcopolo model vibrates as much as a 1512 bus with body built by KeSRTC.

Harshness and vibration correspond to the same thing. You may be right, though IMHO I don't see/feel any difference. So, as I said before, it's better that someone just does an unbiased empirical test to prove which is better.

BTW, I already pointed out to you about the whole experience thing for Marcopolo's.

[Ashley2]

Originally Posted by smashnerd

Harshness and vibration correspond to the same thing.

The vibration most importantly we are speaking about is during the idle speed of the engine. (It has nothing to do with the type of body - either Marco's or built by others). This has the meaning as how the fly wheel is designed to damp the vibrations which engine produces. Other is how the engine fitment is done so that the vibrations are filtered entering the chassis.
If the flywheel weight is incresed to reduce the vibration then it may reduce the power and so a optimal design should be arrived with a proper fly wheel design and use of sub frame to fit the engine.
may be all these are basics of reducing the vibrations which TML would have been tried but still the output is very bad. I had compared a new LPO 1618 with a five year old Viking in one of my earlier post. The vibration levels(during idle) are far superior in Viking.