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-   -   Installed! Bi-Xenon Projectors on my VW Polo GT TSi. EDIT - Reliability concerns on page 8 (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do-yourself/172269-installed-bi-xenon-projectors-my-vw-polo-gt-tsi-edit-reliability-concerns-page-8-a.html)

Got BiXenon projectors installed on my Polo GT TSi.



The Intent of this Thread:

Installation of BiXenon involved so much information to be gathered and so many risks that need to be taken. Going in for a retrofit without being aware of these could be disastrous. I want to share my experience so that others who would like to go for a projector upgrade can make informed decisions and take calculated risks. I consider the following to be important factors in a successful projector upgrade.

1. Analyze your options: There are many options like simple halogen light upgrade, after market headlights, retrofit and OE headlights to choose from. Choose one of these depending on your priorities and budget.
2. Know the risks: There are many risks like botched up retrofit, warranty concerns etc. Understand all these risks before going for the upgrade. Always have a Plan B.
3. Know your installer: Before going ahead, talk to the installer. Explain your requirements and see how he provides you with options. Ask questions on all aspects of the installation and see how he is able to answer the questions. From these interactions you will know about the capabilities and experience of the installer. Also, check for references, reviews etc of the installer and then go ahead.
4. Be prepared for roadblocks: There are so many issues that can pop up during installation - the installer may not have the right wiring harness for the car, the projectors you chose may not be a fit for the headlights, you may find alignment going off after driving some distance etc. If you choose the right installer, all these can be easily solved.
5. Be prepared for issues post installation: There are so many issues that can crop up post installation - lights not turning on due to faulty ballast, high beams not turning on due to bad wiring or solenoid failure etc. You need patience to solve these issues. The after sales support of the installer is also very important. If the installer's after sales support is bad, then you will have to figure out other alternate solutions. If you are not prepared to face these issues, then I would suggest you stick to the stock headlights and maybe just upgrade to better bulbs. Remember, this is a retrofit, not a solution from the manufacturer.

If the above points are given enough consideration, this will ensure a successful upgrade.

I will organize this thread into following sections.

• Decision making process
• Installation process
• The result
• Issues, Concerns and Solutions
• About the installer
• Next steps

Credits:

Before I start, I would like to thank:

• Fellow TBHP member (and also my colleague) srinivasnvns (Srinivas) for joining me during the installation and being there during the various decision making on projector type, DRL, wiring etc.
• Gannu (Ganesh) for his BiXenon DIY thread, and answering many of my newbie questions. This was the starting point in my BiXenon upgrade
• H_Dogg72 in listing the various options for the upgrade and also providing lots of information
• polo_ankit (Ankit) for giving me lots of information about the installer and also about his projector setup
• drpudhi for sharing his thoughts on Mini series vs. FX-R
• petrol_power for providing feedback on the Philips XV
• sgiitk for answering my questions regarding component specs in the projector upgrade thread

References:

Gannu's Xenon DIY thread

Xenon HID Conversion thread

Decision making process:

For the decision making, I tried to answer a series of questions.

Is a headlight upgrade necessary?

The OE headlights in the Polo are very bad. The low beams are decent, but the high beams are in one word, pathetic. Below pictures show this.

Decent low beam. But still no coverage on the sides.


Pathetic high beam hardly lights up anything beyond. Nothing on the left side is visible. It is as good as not being there.


But given the mostly city use (I use the Jetta for the highways), the first question was whether an upgrade was really necessary. I do many solo long distance trips. I wanted to enjoy the high revving petrol of the Polo GT TSi on some of these trips. So yes, an upgrade is necessary.

What is the preference? Performance or looks?

My preference is performance first followed by looks.

What are the options?

1. Upgrade to Philips XV H7 lamps
2. Retrofit projectors - like Mini D2S or FX-R
3. Low cost aftermarket headlight - like Eagle Eyes
4. OE headlight - like Valeo

Option #1 was the cheapest and easiest. However, from various reviews in the internet, I came to know that a bulb upgrade would definitely improve the performance, but only marginally. Fellow GT TSi owner petrol_power confirmed this.

Option #4 is very expensive (upward of 70K) and I did not have the budget for this.

So I had to choose between #2 and #3.

Retrofit or Aftermarket?

H_Dogg72 had pointed out about Eagle Eyes after market headlights that Ankit had installed. I contacted Ankit and he provided me with lots of information on his installation and also shared a lot of pictures. These lights just looked awesome. These will totally transform the look of the car.

Coming to performance, Eagle Eyes are dual halogen projectors and I read some reviews in other forums that they have poorer performance than the stock halogens. So, they will require an upgrade of either one or both of the bulbs to HID. Ankit had replaced one of the halogens with a HID and from the pictures, it looked like this improved the performance.

But from comments from various members, it looked like projectors will have a far superior performance than Eagle Eyes. My conversation with the installer also confirmed this. So, it boiled down to:

Eagle Eyes if looks is the first preference
Projectors if performance is the first preference.

As performance was the top preference, it will have to be projectors.

What are the projector options?

Morimoto Mini D2S or FX-R. For this option, either need to do the retrofit myself (like Gannu did) or ship the OE headlight assembly to a retrofitter like Retrorides. But this is very risky. In the event the retrofitter damages the assembly, it would become a very expensive affair.

After reading Gannu's thread several times, I decided I did not have time or expertise to pull off this job. So, it had to be a retrofitter. I did not want to risk sending the original headlights to a retrofitter. The solution is to do the retrofit on a new set of headlight assemblies keeping the one in the car intact.

One issue with this approach is that I will not be able to insist on Morimoto projectors. I may have to go with the projectors supplied by the retrofitter. I will have to make sure that the components used are of good quality.

Another thing to note is opening up the latest generation H7 headlight assembly is very complicated and has a very high chance of failure. Also, these headlights cost about 25K a pair and in case of failure, can turn out to be very expensive. On the other hand the previous generation H4 headlights are easier to open and also cost about 6.4K a pair.

Retrofitting is risky. What is the risk mitigation?

The risk can be partially mitigated by not doing the retrofit on the OE headlight assembly. Instead the retrofit will be done on single barrel light assembly from the previous generation Polo. Still there is risk involved with the proper fitting of the projectors, moisture sealing of the headlight assembly etc. This can be partially mitigated further by the choice of installer. From my discussions with Ankit and then with the installer himself, Lumens systems looked to have good experience with projector retrofits. There were also lots of positive reviews in FB. In the end, I considered this to be still a risk, but a calculated risk.

Deciding the final setup:

I contacted Vinod of Lumens systems, and had many long discussions over two days. Thoroughly enjoyed the discussions. He first listed out the options – after market and retrofit, and after I told that performance is the main requirement, he suggested me to go with retrofitting the projectors. When I told I do not want to open the original headlights in my car, he suggested we get previous generation H4 headlights of the Polo and retrofit the projectors to these headlights.

In projectors there were two options – Gold Series and FX-R. Gold Series is similar to Morimoto Mini H1 and FX-R is similar to Morimoto FX-R. He said that the FX-R will be an exact fit for the H4 reflector. But he also was very open that he has done only 3 installations of FX-R till date and was more confident with the Gold Series. But I was still firm with FX-R for the marginal performance improvement over Gold Series.

Then drpudhi shared his thoughts about the risks involved with FX-R, and I told Vinod that I will make the decision between FX-R and Gold Series on the day of installation.

Next decision was on the DRL setup. There were two options. One was a LED halo similar to BMW’s, and another was a DRL strip similar to VAG cars, or a combination of both. I reserved the decision till I had a look at these in action.

So, this was the final setup

• Headlight assembly: Previous generation Polo H4 headlight assembly
• Projectors: NHK FX-R or Gold Series to be decided during installation, with BiXenon magnetic shutter
• HID bulbs: CN HID bulbs 5000k
• Ballast: 55w Fast Bright ballast, rapid startup 2 sec
• Wiring harness: - NHK wiring harness
• DRL setup: Angel ring, or DRL strip, to be decided during installation

I then sought feedback from the HID Conversion thread on the components. sgiitk mentioned that the bulbs are the best Chinese bulbs, but there was no information on the ballasts. Did some google search and also found in amazon.com that Fast Bright ballasts were decent ballasts. This cleared my doubts on the quality of the components except the projectors which I had to rely on Vinod's words.

In summary:
After all the analysis, there were two risks in the path I chose. The first is the retrofitting itself, and the second is the quality of the projector optics and components. As there have been good reviews about Lumens Systems and also as I was getting the retrofitting done on separate headlight assemblies, I decided to take the risk and go ahead.

Installation Process:

Vinod told me he would start the installation at 2:30 in the afternoon on Sunday, the 10th January 2016, and finish it by evening. He had already procured the H4 headlights from the local VW dealer.

I started from Coimbatore on Sunday morning at 7:45 and drove about 375km to Bangalore. Reaching Bangalore was a breeze through the 4 and 6 lane NH7 till electronic city - reached electronic city by 1:30PM. But I had the shock of my life after entering Bangalore. I have lot of experience with Bangalore traffic, but always as a passenger. This was the first time I was driving in the crazy Bangalore traffic. Within half an hour of entering Bangalore, I had the first scratch on the Polo when an Innova jumped in when I was trying to merge into a T junction. Thankfully, this can be taken care by some rubbing and polishing. Managed to reach Lumens Systems in one piece at 3:30 in the afternoon and met Vinod. Fellow TBHP member and my colleague srinivasnvns also joined me at Lumens Systems.

Before starting the installation, I had two decisions to make. The first was between Gold Series and FX-R and the second on the Halo/DRL. I also wanted the full internals of the headlight assembly to be black to give that smoked look.

Below pictures show the FX-R projector.






There were two issues with FX-R. The projector is held to the reflector using only a clamp. This will result in very poor mechanical strength. The projector will have to be reinforced using cement like M-Seal. The second was the size. The FX-R is a big projector, and the installer felt that it will touch the glass of the headlight assembly while aligning.

Gold series did not have both these issues. The Gold Series projector is secured with a nut to the reflector and is mechanical stronger than FX-R. The Gold Series being a smaller projector, does not have the problem of touching the glass of the headlight (later I found that with the installation of the halo, even Gold Series touches the glass on the extreme lateral adjustments. But it was not required to go to the extreme end in my case).

Below pictures are of Gold Series projectors.






Vinod showed me the halo design and the DRL strip. I found the DRL strip to be very dull and felt that it would spoil the looks of the headlights. On the other hand, the halo was very bright and looked neat. So, I decided to go ahead with only the halo. This decision is mainly about looks and is subject to individual choice.

With all the choices made, the installation started.

The H4 headlight assembly from previous generation Polo.


Heating the seal using a heat gun


Headlight being opened


Primary reflector for high/low beams


Reflector for parking and indicator lamps


Roughen up the chrome coating using sand paper. I have my doubts on how the paint will hold on the reflector over time. But Vinod assured me that there will be no issues. Gannu had removed the complete chrome layer before painting, which I think is the best way to do this.


Spray paint the reflectors and shrouds




Painted reflector


Projector fit to the reflector


Glass cover sealed to the headlight


Closer look at the seal. They used some epoxy paste for sealing


The complete assembly


Wiring:

Next step was wiring up. I do not have many photos of the wiring process as it was already dark. But there is one important issue that needs mention. As the projector upgrade will void electrical warranty (which includes ECU and other expensive electronics), I wanted to be able to go back to original equipment in case of warranty claims, and also no cutting or splicing of the original wiring harness. In older Polo GT TSi’s with H4 headlights, each light had its own wiring connector and it was easy to do a plug and play installation. But not so easy with the present generation GT TSi. The present generation comes with a headlight with a single 10 pin connector. Everything else including the leveling motor are inside the headlight assembly.

If we had to do the wiring without splicing the harness we needed a matching connector. As we did not have this, we needed to find a way to get the installation done without splicing the harness. I, Srinivas and Vinod did some brainstorming and came up with an idea to use blade type terminals salvaged from some old wiring harness (turned out to be from a scooter) and plug this into the connector.

The 10 pin connector on the harness


Blade type terminals


Terminals plugged into the connector


This is a very crude and temporary arrangement and is not at all recommended. I have ordered the following connector set from AliExpress.

Polo Headlight connector



Once I get this, I plan to create a wiring harness that will plug to the original connector. This will make the connections solid.

The headlights were then fixed to the car and everything worked as expected. Crashed at Srinivas’s place for a 4 hour sleep, and left Bangalore at 3:30 in the morning. Escaped all the traffic (roads were mostly empty), and reached home at 9:30AM.

The End Result:

Here are some pictures on the final result.

Very satisfied with the looks


The halo turned on


The beam after alignment. I think this is still not a perfect beam. The overlap of both the beams is not very sharp. This could be because of some amount of rotation on the projectors and the optics. But for a cost of 25K, I think this is a satisfactory result.


The low beam. Has a much wider throw than the stock halogens shown in earlier post


The high beam. This is 10x better than the original halogen lamps


A small drive by video. Though I consciously switched to low beams when there was oncoming traffic, during times I forgot to do so, I found only a couple of vehicles asking to dip. I believe the projectors are properly focused and glare to oncoming traffic is minimum. Also, I noticed that the right side light beam had to be pulled outward. I made this adjustment after shooting the video, and the right side beam is still better now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_HHXN8tL3w

UPDATE:

I did an alignment of the projectors which I have explained in the below post.

Projector Alignment

Here is a video post alignment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnloXJzWKv0

Note: The lights look warm in this video compared to the previous one. This is because I shot this with a different video camera and the camera did some automatic white balance and made it look warmer.

Issues, Concerns and Solutions:

Sourcing of H4 headlight assembly:
VW does not sell spares off the shelf. To procure H4 headlight assembly, they require VIN number of the car and will link the sale to your car. In my case, Vinod was able to manage to get the headlights without VIN number.

Headlight connector:
The latest Polo GT TSi’s come with a headlight assembly with a single 10 pin connector. Without a mating connector, we had to manage with a crude solution of using blade type terminals from a salvaged wiring harness and plugging these into the original headlight connector.

Stain inside the glass:
After installing the headlights, we noticed a small stain (we have no idea on the cause of the stain) on the inside surface of the glass on the left headlight. Though this was a small stain I did not want this to remain as an eye sore. This required opening up the headlight again. The stain would not go with application of Collins. So, they had to apply tooth paste and remove it. In the process, this introduced some swirl marks on the glass. The swirl marks are not that visible and do not affect the performance, but still a small eye sore.

Projector coming loose:
After the left headlight was opened up to remove the stains and sealed back, the technician did not fix the reflector assembly to the leveling mechanism correctly. This was an honest human error and I think was mainly because it was getting very late on Sunday night. I noticed this only when I was driving back to Coimbatore. I found that one of the beams was very low and was oscillating on rough roads. On reaching home I found the projector and reflector assembly to be loose. This was the biggest scare. In the worst case, this would require opening up the headlight again to fit the reflectors. As I was back in Coimbatore the options I had were: ship the headlight back to Bangalore and get it fixed, have Lumen’s sytems technician to visit Coimbatore, or drive back to Bangalore – none of these were encouraging.

In the evening, I took the car to the local Bosch service center. The electrical guy there was quite knowledgeable and he said he will try to set this right without opening up the headlights, and to my greatest relief managed to do so. He said something about resetting some locking mechanism from outside which has a 50-50 chance of solving the issue. After setting the loose projector, he also did an alignment of the light and I was satisfied with the result.

About the Installer:

I think I should also mention about my experience with the installer Mr. Vinod of Lumens Systems in Bangalore - both good and bad.

The Good:

• Before the decision, I had long conversations about various options for the retrofit - Eagle Eyes, FX-R, Gold Series (Morimoto Mini H1 equivalent), 35W vs. 55W, 4300K vs. 5000K etc. I felt that he is technically strong and knows what he does.
• I had driven to Bangalore with a very tight time schedule to get the projectors installed. He completed the job as promised.
• Though I was insisting for the FX-R, he did a trial fit and showed me that the FX-R is too big for the headlight housing for a proper alignment, and then changed to Gold Series. I liked this attitude.
• I saw his technician work on the headlight, and I felt that he knows his job. He did a very good job with the retrofit.

The Bad:

• He does not have a proper alignment procedure. He only does very rough alignment. Alignment is the most important step in a BiXenon setup. I had to do the alignment myself which I have explained in this post.
• Wiring is bad. He uses regular insulation tape for all the joints. Insulation tapes are not meant for high temperature environments like the engine bay. The joints have to be sealed with heat shrinking tube. That is what I did which I have explained in this post.
• He does not use butyl rubber tape for re-sealing the headlights, but uses some epoxy paste to do the sealing. In my passenger side headlight (which was opened a second time to clean the dust speck), when I had removed the lights for the wiring cleanup, I found the seal to have opened up in many places. Vinod explained that the epoxy requires some setting time before the headlights should be mounted in the car. This time was not allowed on this lamp as I had to return back to Coimbatore. He fixed this issue when he visited Coimbatore for a couple of other installations. I still do not know the long term reliability of this seal. I plan to check this after a few months.

Overall, it was a mixed experience. But I feel the light output from the projectors make it worth the effort.

Disclaimer: I do not have any affiliation with Lumens Systems. I have just documented my experience with them for this particular installation. If you decide to go ahead with Lumens Systems, please talk to Vinod, be clear of your requirements, get a clear idea about the projector brand and source, reliability, after sales support (especially if you do not live in Bangalore) and then go ahead only if you feel comfortable.

Brand name and source of the projectors:

Another point I would like to mention is that I do not know the exact source of the projectors. Vinod said they are NHK make. Even before I finalized the deal, I did a lot of internet search on NHK projectors. Unlike Morimotos that have a proper website, I could not find any proper website for the NHK projectors. A search would lead mostly to AlExpress or AliBaba pages. I could find some YouTube videos about NHK Q5 projectors, but no more information. There was one web site for NHK projectors.

http://www.nhkhid.com/index.php?m=co...lists&catid=85

But clicking on any of the product links just shows a "Page Not Found" error. Also, in the photos of NHK Gold Series projectors I had posted in post #3, one of the pictures shows "NHK" marking on the projector body, and the other does not. I did not see a NHK marking on the projectors that have been fit to my headlights as well.

Vinod told me that he sources his projectors directly from the manufacturer in China, and the projectors come in blank cartons and unmarked. So, in my opinion, the origin of these projectors is a big question mark. But I am totally happy with the performance of the projectors. I just do not know about the long term reliability.

I am just trusting that Lumens Systems will provide a good after sales support in case of failure. In case this does not happen, I already have a Plan B - get Morimotos and do a DIY job like Gannu did.

Total Cost:

The complete installation cost me about 25K. This was including 6.4K for the pair of H4 headlight assemblies, a discount from an ongoing offer and without the DRL strip. Price could vary depending on the offers at the time of purchase and on the DRL choice as well.

This does not include the cost of fuel and around 900 bucks I paid for the umpteen tolls on NH7!

Next Steps:

Following are the improvements I need to do to call this upgrade completed.

• Replace the makeshift connections with blade terminals with proper mating connector.
• Use heat shrink tubes for all the wiring joints to make it reliable.
• Properly secure the ballast (it is hanging on a cable tie) in the engine bay using proper screw and nut.

With this, I conclude this thread on BiXenon installation on my Polo GT TSi. Hope this thread is useful to others who are looking for a similar upgrade to their Polo GT TSi or other cars.

UPDATE:

All the above improvements completed. Documented in the below post.

Operation Wiring Cleanup

IMPORTANT NOTE:

If you have face lift Polo or Vento with cornering light function, do not replace the fogs with HIDs (I did not). The cornering function implements theatrical dimming because of which the HID will not turn on. Also, the HID bulb will blow out quickly. I have seen this happen in another Vento with cornering function.

Great work graaja. Smoked reflector looks droolworthy in your Polo's shade. I am surprised to see the stock high beam of the Polo, there is hardly any notable improvement over the low beam in terms of throw. These projectors are a great improvement for sure at least for the high beam, as is evident from the pictures. I am a bling fan and would prefer your setup when compared to Gannu's, which is total functional.

The thread is very well documented. Kudos! Mind sharing the price for the upgrade?

Hi graaja, the output is just phenomenal.
I have also been looking for a good installer in bangalore but my concern was will the fit and finish of the project will be as good as Gannu's Project? But the post installation pictures and video have answered to my worries. Big Thumbs up :).
I have few questions.
1. There is a small blind-spot observed at the bottom left corner. Is this what you were talking about the stain?
2. During HighBeam, the throw of the beam is positioned very high. Is this OK?
3. You went with 55w ballasts so the performance is great but how about the long term reliability?
4. Is the total cost includes the cost of Ballasts, Bulbs, Shrouds and so on? What is the warranty of the Ballasts?

Thank you for this much informative thread.

As Keeru pointed above, in the video, the high beam is throwing light a bit higher than I expected, may be its because the length of throw is too much that it reaches this height after a very long distance only? couldn't make out clearly from the video.

How do you compare it against your Jetta projectors? Is it decent enough? And did you check for Philips Lamps and Ballast or didn't look for that option?

For 25k, its really a great VFM upgrade.

Thank you very much for the kind words. The whole setup cost 25K including the old generation Polo headlights, projectors, HID lamps, ballast and the halo.

1. The video was taken by my daughter from the passenger seat with the camera held high to minimize the dashboard. That is the reason why the blind spot is visible. From the driver's position, the blind spot is out of view.
2. I am still not very sure about the alignment. The technician at Bosch aligned the beams such that the cutoff was ok. He adjusted the height just by his judgement. I am planning to do a proper alignment myself. I am trying to find a location with a flat surface and a wall. I will provide more updates when I get a proper alignment done.
3. No idea about the long term reliability :)
4. The cost includes everything - Old generation Polo headlights, projectors, bubls, ballast, wiring harness, halo and installation charges. The setup has a 1 year warranty.

Actually, I fell the high beam a little lower compared to the Jetta. But it is brighter than the Jetta. I still have not made a back to back comparision though. I will be doing several experiments in the coming days. Will update with results.

Actually I meant the price breakup for each item used. :)

Thanks graaja for sharing. The output of hid light looks awesome! ! I really want to change my Skoda Rapid's halogen projectors to HID. What are the possible options for me? Please enlighten me. :)

Headlights: 3200 x 2 = 6400
BiXenons (projectors, bulbs, ballast and the halo): 18230
Installation: Free of Cost
Total: 24630

As this was sort of a total package, I do not have further break down of component costs.

I do not know much about the headlight assembly options for Rapid. You can either source your own projectors like Morimoto and get it retrofitted from an installer or go with a full package from a reputed installer. You could check for good installers in Cochin, or talk to Lumens Systems.

I believe Skoda rapid has the same/similar lighting mechanicals as its VW mate. So essentially the options suggested in the opening post should apply to your car.

@rapid_fire : All you need is a kit of HID bulbs (projector specific) to go into your stock projectors. Many people have done this on their XUV500s'. You can choose a branded kit like Osram, P8 or Phillips, which would cost ~10k or a generic ebay.in kit for ~3k.