[PatchyBoy]

Any two wheeler, including bicycles are at least 2 feet wide. There is no way they cannot be seen, even with them leaning against the tail end of the car

[amitpatnaik]

Nice thread PatchyBoy. I would definitely try to practice this during my upcoming highway trip. Practically on roads I feel that we have a threat from people driving cars without the left ORVMs (Mostly indicas). Then there are the people who travel with both their ORVMs completely folded usually while driving on city roads and during night on highways. Then there are the bikers in the city who remove or fold their rear view mirrors and ride on the extreme right lane without a little bit of common sense.

[slicvic]

Tried this yesterday on the highway, and yes found it to be a great tip. Why didn't i think of this earlier!!!
But for out 2 and 3 wheeler filled cities this would never work, its only for the highway.

[PatchyBoy]

Originally Posted by slicvic

But for out 2 and 3 wheeler filled cities this would never work, its only for the highway.

Funny that most people seem to think so. I will try and position a video camera where the driver's head would be and shoot a video with both kinds of adjustments and post. That should help, hopefully. I personally have my mirrors set up this way, no matter where I am driving and never felt a blind spot behind me.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by PatchyBoy

Funny that most people seem to think so. I will try and position a video camera where the driver's head would be and shoot a video with both kinds of adjustments and post. That should help, hopefully. I personally have my mirrors set up this way, no matter where I am driving and never felt a blind spot behind me.

Would definitely help, but remember that not all cars have similar rearward visibility in the IRVM; there will be thick C-pillar and the rear glass might be small then there will be blacked out portion on the rear glass. Either way, pictures would also help.

[senthils27]

Originally Posted by PatchyBoy

This method was published by SAE in 1995 and I was told about this on that day. Been using it ever since, including in city traffic with zero issues. It takes a few days to get used to. I drive in B2B Bangalore traffic everyday and so far do not have scratches on the car due to setting the mirrors like this, in the past 9 years of driving in Bangalore.

Thanks PatchyBoy for bringing this topic.

I came to know of this technique when it came via an email in my office and immediately started using this and it has been 1.5 years since. I too support that this is a very good one. As with any new thing to practice, it will be difficult for few days but if you get through it, i assure you that you will never want to return to the traditional method. I have personally had many experiences where i spotted vehicles in the otherwise blind spot and avoided them. This will also greatly help in lane changing compared to the traditional mirror position.

[nidhinsarath]

I adjusted my ORVMS as mentioned above and i would now say that the blind spot is almost nil now. But the issue i have is while parking the car especially while reversing in case of parallel parking. I am not able to see the left rear side of the car.

[opendro]

Well, first my confession, I also keep my mirrors such that I can slightly see rear end of my car.

Having said that I fully agree with PatchyBoy. We never need to see the rear end even in our city traffic where even an inch is a big gap. The reason is that images/reflections in our outside rear view mirror are always supposed to be on the outward area of the mirror. The moment the image comes to the edge of the inward area of the mirror, you can safely assume that the image has almost touched your cars side body. In doubt, we can anyway lean slightly as we did during adjustment to confirm the contact.

Having agree with PatchyBoy now, it is not entirely necessary that the mirrors are set too much outward to be able to have an all round view. That is because many cars, mirrors and driver position will end up being able to see the side body of the car without tilting head, yet able to see all the areas as we turn our eye towards the side mirror.

Anyway, it is a good test to make someone walk around to see if he is in the visible area all the time without tilting the head at all, by just turning the head from mirror to mirror.

[a4anurag]

This is how the IRVM and ORVM adjusted in my Swift. I have kept some margin and view of the rear end for the ORVM's.

[venkats2001]

Thanks for this excellent tip.

I am new to driving. My parking spot is an underground basement, with 2 thick pillars on either side. And the approach is not straight, I have to drive through a curve and then ease my car in the spot with a 90 degree turn for entry into it. Now, I am still not sure of the judgement yet while turning, and worry that If I steer too much, the pillars will brush against the sides of my car behind. Here, the ORVM adjustment helps, since I can see the sides of my car and hence get a sense of the distance between the pillar and the car.

But for highways, will definitely follow the mentioned procedure.

[vinodbollini]

Thanks @patchyboy for the discussion, but there are many absolutely logical reasons for the 1/3rd rule. Unfortunately there is a lot that is amiss with this SAE prescribed model. There will still be a blind spot with _any_ setup; just a matter of how far the lateral distance to the car behind you. Mirrors do not give you 100% coverage and just seeing things is not enough for vision, so just because you can see a few degrees more does not make it right.

The rule of 1/3 comes from the fact that we do not process information in our peripheral vision as easily. In fact, motion and object recognition in the glance in the mirror need a "frame of reference" which is provided with the car body. To build a spatial model of the objects around you on the road you will absolutely need the reference, both lateral position as well as the distance (which is where the door handle comes in). This is especially true because you only look at the mirrors. A very small number of human beings can get around this. Some may not be able to process this with the frame of reference.

Since I know this is an unending debate, so I'll leave this discussion with these:
1. You can get comfortable with _any_ setup. That does not make it right. Training and familiarity mitigate the limitations of any method, but we all dream of being able to pull the handbrake when our brakes fail: very very few can actually do it.
2. You can achieve the same blindspot mitigation by leaning forward instead of turning your head. It achieves pretty much the same as the SAE's setup.
3. The usage of mirrors is not an "I think so.." discussion; human beings have very little "conscious" understand of the neurology and psychology of sight.

Please drive safe.

[::CMS::]

In Indian environment its really difficult implement this and feel safe, had tried long time back but still w/o seeing a small portion of my car its difficult to see the snakes in the traffic and crazy reptiles. Also I use it to get an idea about the distance from the other car to my car esp in traffic.

To me, I need my orvms in the same position as above but need a solution to cover the blind spots. I had ordered 2 rearview cameras with decent spread for both the orvms and will get triggered with the signal lights or manual. I will try to post the photos when I get it.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by PatchyBoy

It is always frustrating when we spot fellow road users driving with their ORVMs folded. What is more frustrating and goes unnoticed is the fact that most road users have no idea how to correctly adjust the ORVMs.

Hello PatchyBoy,
Thanks for the excellent and important information. This is really a vital thread and an eye-opener.

I have been adjusting my ORVMs such that 30% of the view is occupied by the car. I read your explanation thoroughly and the logic convinced me immediately.

Travelled to Pune - Mumbai - Pune yesterday in my SX4 and noticed the difference. It was such a relief to notice that I was not missing any vehicles. With the broad ORVMs of SX4, it was even more convenient.

Looking over the shoulder was another important thing.

I will educate all my friends and relatives on this. Credit goes to you.

Thank you very much.

[slicvic]

Originally Posted by PatchyBoy

Funny that most people seem to think so.

Tried it again on the highway, was convinced. As a next step tried it inside the city, and am now convinced.

Took sometime to break the mindset and familiarity of the earlier setup.

[karts]

Originally Posted by Travelator

Nice explanation on how to work out the correct angles. No matter how many discussions I have with my dad's driver on this, he still believes rear view mirrors are nothing but a distraction. Will give him an illustration implementing this and let me see, if I can turn my dad's drives into safer ones. Thanks PatchyBoy...

How on earth does he think its a distraction? I feel handicapped when I don't have either of the ORVMs especially the passenger side one. I wonder how people drive with the ORVMs folded, do they just drive blindly or just by pure luck and guess work or is there any other trick that am missing? By asking this question am not encouraging driving with folded ORVMs, I just want to know how do they drive so confidently without them?