[PrasunBannerjee]

Like 2 wheelers had a 'reserve' marker, what if EV companies come out with a 'reserve marker' powered by additional battery or something which caps out other useless functionalities to max out range to be able to reach somewhere.

For example, reaching reserve power will disable other door request sensors than driver side, unnecessary/fancy features on infotainment, ambient lighting, rear AC vents, animated transitions, enable 2 speakers out of lets say 10 etc, disable any sport and city mode and purely make it run in eco mode at a max capped speed of lets say 50-60 kmph.

This might be a beneficial feature from point of optimization, and also if marketed well like maruti markets 'kitna deti hai', will help reduce range/highway anxiety among masses.

Not aware if any similar thing is in practice for now in any models.

Any manufacturer reading this, consider it my resume, as well as a product+marketing strategy/pathway to explore, don't forget to give me credits if you utilize

[mukeshannamalai]

If every fuel station in this country is forced to keep at least one or two EV quick-charging stations, this range anxiety issue can be solved, Fuel stations are there in our country every few meters now in the city and in highway every few KMS, this is the easiest and quickest way to implement EV charging stations across the country.

Why not the consortium of Automobile manufacturers join hands and bring the charging stations in every fuel station, more the quick charging stations people will not hesitate to switch over from ICE to EV. Many people in the country have only one car and they use it for both City and Highway purposes, solving EV charging on highways will bring down range anxiety and highway anxiety as well along with the large number of people moving to EV.

[Electromotive]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

A modern EV battery pack has thousands of physically distinct individual batteries. I think my 75kwh car has 5800 small batteries. This way the batteries that is treated as reserve is rotated.

Sorry to be so pedantic but those 'individual batteries' are called cells. A group of connected cells make up a battery/battery pack. Tesla currently uses the type 2170 cells to make their battery packs.

Originally Posted by PrasunBannerjee

...

BEVs don't have a reserve indicator per se but they have the distance-to-empty indicator and multiple warnings when charge level falls below 10-15% depending on OEM. Also, in some BEVs you can unlock the buffer battery capacity in emergencies. Almost all battery management systems are programmed to never completely discharge Li-ion cells, this is done to extend the life of the cells. But in an emergency you can drain the buffer to get another 10Km or so. Tesla claims to have an extra 5 -15 miles range on buffer. Edmund's found it to be more. Fact of the matter is, all well designed EV battery packs always have some buffer and can be programmed for use in an emergency but it does reduce the service life of the battery. Also, the veracity of the distance-to-empty indicator varies across brands and should not be fully trusted.

[syks]

Considering the charging time for passenger segment EVs, it would be easier to comply with environment safeguards by making the public transport vehicles and goods carriers electric. As far as I know Volvo with ABB has been working on this. Increase charging infrastructure along highways for these guzzlers and in addition to this, all e-commerce delivery vehicles should be electric. Finally only passenger segment two wheelers to be made electric. Please keep four wheelers out of EV ! I know I am biased but its simply difficult to adapt to sedate electric vehicles in future.

[Shresth_EV]

Originally Posted by mukeshannamalai

If every fuel station in this country is forced to keep at least one or two EV quick-charging stations, this range anxiety issue can be solved, Fuel stations are there in our country every few meters now in the city and in highway every few KMS, this is the easiest and quickest way to implement EV charging stations across the country.

Why not the consortium of Automobile manufacturers join hands and bring the charging stations in every fuel station, more the quick charging stations people will not hesitate to switch over from ICE to EV

True, but the matter boils down to time, ubiquity and peace of mind which comes with knowing the existence of a charging station will alleviate some anxiety, but with the limited space on most pumps, it’s a hard sell.

In cities, petrol pumps are absolutely not the solution. Multi level parkings in malls, markets and offices are the solution in city. Most are with big roofs as well, instead of mandating petrol pumps, mandate every parking to have X% of total slots to have chargers.

And mandate all building with a roof area bigger than certain limit to necessarily have solar.

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

I on the hand am more concerned with charging anxiety. A chunk of the car population park on the road. How will these vehicles be charged overnight? An EV car for now is the playtool for the privileged few who have a designated parking slot and can have access to a dedicated charging device. For the rest gas fumes is the way to go for now.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way, saw a thread some time ago on TBHP itself about bollard/streetlamp integrated chargers in UK and Kerala.

Then again, think of block warmers in Canada or Scandinavia — they needed it for heating engine to optimal level for cold starts in winter. Nearly all offices/parkings have one.

With minor differences of power draw, one could just use the same concept for EV charging.

Even if such a system of lamp chargers are not possible, one would be able to charger from these chargers in parkings in future just like Canadians have been using block warmers for their fuel cars. We are even better off — we have good solar index.

Originally Posted by KPR

In case the owner wishes to charge the car how can one measure the actual units consumed given that not everyone can convert units and then do maths based on charger and battery rating! I'm sure none of the hotels will accept this headache.

There’s this guy Aakash on YT who made NexCruise CC add on for Nexon EV, I saw on his channel, a charging kit with a small meter and even earthing rods.

Indian Jugaad is endless, provided one is ready to take the risk (I wouldn’t for one). The right to deny service still rests with the hotel though, but surely better than nothing.

As I see it, it will soon become a very lucrative business choice to offer such services complimentary or at very nominal rates as you can absorb that price from wider customer base — If I’m travelling and I have an EV, with a choice to either stay at a hotel with no charger or one with, I’d give more heed to the latter (oc after considering other points, but for argument sake, assume both offer similar services and prices)

[AROO7]

For the range anxiety be it on the highway or in the city one needs to see what Tesla did in the U.S. They not only made cars with longer range but ensured there was sufficient charging infrastructure in place so that owners can be at ease while doing long runs. Apart from this Tesla also went a step further and installed its network of Tesla Superchargers where you can juice up in a short time. And even during this time, Tesla allows you to kill time by playing games on Tesla Arcade or just surf the internet on its giant infotainment screen.

Other manufacturers are also catching up in this game like Volvo cars equipped with Android Automotive OS is leveraging Google's App infrastructure and very soon Volvo cars can download YouTube app and stream content on its infotainment screen. While Audi has started a pilot project where it has come up with an EV charging hub along with a luxury lounge. The hub is itself made of cargo containers and has solar panels placed over it and the electricity drawn from the grid comes from renewable sources. This hub Audi has placed for its customers where they can rest in the lounge, do work, or simply watch their car charging while relaxing in their luxurious lounge.

The point of stating the above fact is the concept hidden behind it. Companies like Tesla, Volvo, and Audi are not only going after reducing the wait time while charging your car but also providing you ways and means to keep you busy so even if you have to wait you won't mind. This is something EV makers in India need to learn from and replicate. TBH one of the major reasons for Tesla's success in the U.S. is its wide charger network. Tata should study this and strategically place its charger along major highways and expressways. Add a restroom and an eatery along with that and that's all they need to do and become the MSIL of EVs (of course in terms of sales number ).

For those interested in reading more articles on this-

1). Polestar give Vivaldi web browser on its EVs to surf the net link

2). Volvo cars with Android Automotive OS can run YouTube app on their infotainment screen link

3). Audi's charging hub for quick charging in urban areas link

4). An article by Autocar UK on how open access to Tesla's supercharger network will benefit early EV adopters across all brands as well as the brand itself link

[airbus]

For me another reason of anxiety will be the probable queue at charging stations on a busy weekend/holiday. In a populous country like India, there will be huge demand on some days. Sometimes we even struggle to get a place in restaurants and similar demand for charging stations will unnecessarily add to the travel time. Availability of 24/7 power is also a problem in some places.

[gops2009]

A very relevant topic when there is so much hype about EV's . IMO we are at the nascent stage of a larger evolution both in terms of the design as well as the technology. There are several ideas that come to mind. One of those is driven by a conversation I had with the driver of an e-shaw .

Today the challenge is the time it takes to charge the batteries. What if we have a design where we have e-filling stations where we just drive the car on to a ramp, the present battery charge is read , the battery removed by a robotic arm and replaced with a fully charged battery , the charge remaining in the previous battery is credited to you and you pay the difference. The whole process takes under 5 minutes, this is so akin to the way we top up our fuel tanks in the ICE era.

there are many more interesting ideas if we are ready to explore beyond the technology known to us today . However what really worries me and what people do not speak about are

Are EV's really environment friendly? Are they really green as they are made out to be? In the next decade when there will be thousands of these on the road , what will be do with batteries that expire , where will we dump the heavy metals that these batteries are built using ?

[aashishnb]

I would like to add 2 points to the discussion, one directly related and the other which has a consequential impact due to EVs:

1. Costs:
Most comparison is for cost of EV using home charging, working to Rs. 1-2 per km (at Rs.7-10 per unit of power) and comparable fuel cost of Rs. 7-10++ per km. Now, while taking about range,etc. we are looking at the charging infra, especially the fast charging infra. Even in cities where we do not have dedicated parking, the general argument is one can charge at these stations. However, we forget to make consequential adjustments to the cost of running the EV. If one were to charge on fast chargers/paid chargers like hotels, the cost may shoot up to 3-5 per km or higher. This means your payback just doubled. Basically, the cost per km goes up as the proportion of non-home charging goes up.

2. Renewable energy, especially Solar:
The general assumption is the EV will be charged at night when one is home, as it will typically be used to drive during the daytime. The other general assumption is with solar increasingly forming part of the energy generation mix, the whole argument about EV polluting elsewhere will start to get weaker.
(Fact to be noted: today, typically power consumption is highest in the evening and lowest during day time, which is why power companies charge higher rates during evening & lower during day to large customers (industries, etc.). The credit they give for excess self generation is opposite i.e. lower during day & higher during evenings.)
Now, a resulting problem of both the earlier factors i.e. increasing EV & increasing solar - let us assume both of these grow exponentially, the grid will face massive instability/supply-demand mismatch and could perhaps lead to blackouts/grid failures, etc. in extreme cases. There are many solutions proposed/discussed but I would like to not go into those as it will hijack this thread's focus on EVs.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by GTO

Almost zero charging facilities on Indian highways

- If you drive fast, the range drops like crazy. 80 - 90 kmph is better for an EV's range than 120 kmph. That's why I rarely ever see EVs in the right / fast lane of the expressway..

The first part of your statement is not quite correct, sir. There are plenty of chargers on most major highways as well as in cities and towns. Currently, with my MG ZS EV, I often go on long distance trips without any issues. Right now, I could go from Delhi to Bombay, Goa or Kerala without any problem. Similarly, I can go to Jaipur, Jodhpur, Agra, Chandigarh, Amritsar and the hills of Nainital, Shimla, Mussorie or Manali.

On your second point, even if I were driving a Ferrari, I wouldn’t exceed 90kmph on any road in India. Perhaps a brief stint at 100 on empty access controlled expressways due to safety reasons. So regardless of which vehicle I am driving, I choose a speed of around 80 to 90kmph. However you are correct that the EVs provide better range at 90kmph than 120.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Besides, the distance one can cover in an hour is considerably lesser as against ICE which translates to more travelling time in a trip. For me, that's the impractical and worrying side of it more than the range issue. Two to three hours more in a 600 kms/11 hours trip otherwise is massive. So, we all have to wait for the tech to move forward before we see mass market EV cars than can do 600-700 kms with a single charge.

I don’t see why it would take three extra hours to cover 600kms in an EV. You would surely need a break for lunch or dinner and another one or two for tea or coffee. It would take at least an hour to park, order your food, use the toilet etc. You can leave home fully charged and cover over 300 to 350km before needing to charge. One hour is enough to fill up and then you would get to your destination. If you can have your meal during that hour then no time is wasted. Of course if the chargers are located at say intervals of 200kms each then you might have to charge twice for around 45 minutes but again you can often combine it with a break.

Originally Posted by gkveda

There can be a stand by battery fixed in the car with lower range (may be 50 kms) which will basically serve like the reserve function in two wheelers.

Having two separate batteries would add to the cost and complexity. In any case, everyone would then assume that the range is first battery range plus 50km. So it would serve no special purpose. Much better to just provide a bigger battery in the first place.

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Connected EV does the trip planning for you. It knows how many charging stalls are free, and how long the charging session would last. The expected arrival time, and the amount of remaining charge (after reaching destination) it estimates is pretty accurate. It also preconditions the battery for fast charging based on the time of arrival at the charger.

You are thinking about Tesla Superchargers and the VW network of Electrify America. Unfortunately we don’t have any such connected EV navigation in India. All we can see is if a particular charger is in use on each separate app of each provider one at a time. We have to manually look at the chargers on the route using various apps and then decide if we would make it to each one and how much we should charge.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Why don't manufacturers add a small ICE engine (say 10 bhp) in the electric vehicle that allows it to take care of emergencies - at least till the EV charging infra is well in place in India. The cost of adding all this would be less than 50K INR

I don’t think the cost would be that low. There are several complexities like having an additional fuel tank, alternator, drive train, transmission system etc. This is sort of like a plugin hybrid.

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

-do not use EV's for long distance highway travel now, as the technology is still in its infancy. The required infrastructure is not even an infant but can be labelled as an embryo.
-for those who like think contrary to the above lines, please travel with lots and lots of will power, adequate time (days) in hand, adequate funds for prolonged hotel stay if need be, a few mobile power banks to stay connected with your banks, bedding and eatables to be able to sustain.

I do two to three long distance trips per month in my EV without any issues. Currently there are plenty of chargers available on major highways as well as in major and mid sized cities. I can easily drive from Delhi all the way to Amritsar or Bombay and even Goa or Kerala.

[Torq]

Originally Posted by GTO

Unfortunately, "range anxiety" has stuck itself in our minds and just like Indians are generally obsessed with "fuel economy" in ICE cars, so will range be an obsession for years to come.



... Tiago EV and its 200 km range...

Range anxiety is real boss! During my last trip in kokan, I left Mahad with a fully charged Tigor EV for a Sunday consultation ride of 150 kms to Dapoli and back knowing from past experience that full range is 250-270kms of real world running. Still, there was that scare that I'd run out of charge! Perhaps, with more highway chargers, and more experience with EV I shall be more confident.

Also, Mahad has now a fast charger installed at PG City, on NH17 highway itself. Will be posting detailed review and pics when I visit again this Sunday.

[pradheepsr]

Perhaps HYBRID EVs may be the solution for this range anxiety induced fears.
Till the charging infrastructure is fully ready and available in all major highways I will definitely be sceptical about buying one as my primary car.
By Hybrid EVs I mean one with a proper battery pack for a decent range (200-300km).Once the range of the battery runs out it can run on a petrol mill (like a smaller 1litre TSI engine) so that while the petrol mill is running it can help charge the battery up.
Perhaps both the battery and the ICE engine can put out a combined range of 500-600km.
I may sound naive but can anyone enlighten me if such tech is available in the market?
I guess vehicles like the Prius do that.

Kindly enlighten

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by pradheepsr

I may sound naive but can anyone enlighten me if such tech is available in the market? I guess vehicles like the Prius do that.

You can read up on the BMW I3 with a range extending gas engine. Both Pros and cons are listed here, but I will point out that it is a big flop in terms of number of cars sold. It has been available for almost 10 years now.
https://www.greencarfuture.com/elect...range-extender

Prius is not a range extender. It is a very efficient split transmission, always trying to operate both the electric motor and ICE at optimal loads. It was great tech a couple decades back. I owned a Prius for many years before upgrading to a Tesla Model 3.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm#pt6

[jithin23]

For the current crop of EVs in India, range is adequate but not as much as one would expect on a highway. For city usage, 4 wheeler EV makes better sense than 2 wheeler EVs as 2 wheeler EVs are expensive and will have lesser lifespan due to battery limitations. That too with rural electricity being erratic most of the time, unless a 600-700km range EV launches, I'll stick with turbo diesels as they give the best balance of FE, performance and fun. For a frequent road tripper like me, Highway range Level EVs are still a decade away. The last thing would be to get stuck in a middle of a hill station as Ghats drain out energy in any form be it ICE or EV.

Also, for most of us, Resale also plays a major role and EVs Haven't really made a mark in this aspect.

[JReacher13]

Originally Posted by Early_Adopter

Given the current prices of electricity tariff for charging the cars, one incurs anywhere between Rs. 1 to Rs. 2 per kilometre, compared to Rs. 7 to Rs 10 per kilometre on ICE cars. ...

In summary, shouldn't the narrative shift from Range Anxiety to Highway Charging Anxiety?....

...IMHO, a subtle shift in the narrative will go a long way in shaping the way the whole ecosystem develops which is at a nascent stage right now.

Cheers

Very interesting argument. Fristly, I believe without significant improvement in renewable power generation, the cost of power is going to be significantly higher than the present but can be lower than fossil fuels. Also when a significant share of EVs become mainstream, the cost of real estate for setting up rest stops/ charging units, etc. will be ultimately transferred to the customer. Compared to an ICE car at fuel pump, an EV has to spend more time at a charging station. This will drive up the cost of real estate especially along the highways.

Secondly, Even with a good number of charging stations on highways, it may be more favorable for leisure/ planned trips than business trips. Consider this realistic case. Many people travel on business/ work between Hyderabad and Vijayawada, a 600 km round trip, on the same day. People typically leave in the early morning and reach back before midnight. Even with a 400 km range and a good number of charging stations, it will be time taking (my guess is it will add 3-4 hrs) and we need to factor the local travel in the destination as well.

I believe there is some more time for the general public to fully adopt EVs. or did I miss something? (an honest question!)