[volkman10]

Toyota Patents Plans For EV With Manual Transmission And Clutch.

The patent appears to show an EV that you can change gears in but you can also set it to a gearless mode too.

Toyota wants to implement a solution that to us doesn’t seem to dissimilar to what you get when you convert an ICE vehicle to electric, but you keep the gearbox. Usually, these EV conversions are just left in a single gear (third or fourth, depending on the motor’s specification and maximum RPMs), so you don’t have to use the clutch because you don’t actually have to shift.

Several automakers experimented with equipping electric vehicles with multi-gear transmissions, but virtually none actually made it to production. The only two currently on sale are the Porsche Taycan and Audi E-Tron GT, but it looks like Toyota is also exploring the possibility, as was revealed by patents filed by the automaker.

Toyota’s patent drawings and diagrams show a really simple version of what the manufacturer seems to want to do. The working principle for the system relies on a special controller that alters the torque of the electric motor in order to make it seem more gas car-like.

It does seem to mention a real clutch pedal that the driver will press in order to change gear by moving a physical shifter, although the text refers to these as ‘pseudo-shifter’ and ‘pseudo-clutch pedal’ hinting at the fact that they are not essential and that their role is to reproduce the feeling and the fun of a manual transmission in a vehicle that does not need it.

According to one of the patents,

The controller of the electric vehicle is configured to control the torque of the electric motor using the MT vehicle model based on the operation amount of accelerator pedal, the operation amount of the pseudo-clutch pedal and the shift position of the pseudo-shifter used by the operation of the reaction force actuator.

The controller is configured to store shift reaction force characteristic simulating the characteristic of the shift reaction force according to the operation of the shifter. Then, the controller is configured to control the shift reaction force output by the shift reaction force generator according to the operation of the pseudo-shifter using the stored shift reaction force characteristic.

Toyota may want to use this pseudo-manual in a future sporty offering; the company's president, Akio Toyoda, is an enthusiast and a keen driver and he has vowed to add more exciting models to Toyota's lineup.


Link

[androdev]

CVT and NA for ICE cars. Turbo charging and manual gear boxes for EV cars. The Toyota way :-)

[V.Narayan]

Duh!!!!!(emoji scratching its head x 4)
I am not an engineer and always thought (maybe incorrectly) that the seamless variation of the mix between amps and volts was the gear box of an EV. Better ask Boeing to now build airliners which though jet powered have a nice big propeller in the nose to give that nostalgia feeling. Electric rail locomotives with a choo-choo funnel with smoke belching out.....Toyota will gain more by rejigging their design teams for the frontis pis of their cars.

[narayans80]

Except racing, I don't see why road cars need manual transmission at all for EV. The only thing I miss in the AT, is the engine braking, and that too is because the other vehicles on road have them.

It is one of the learning curves a new AT owner transitioning from MT has to get used to, and I don't see a big deal. The lack of engine braking, makes you less aggressive

[twin-turbo]

I guess they heard the cries of some of the people who say that electric cars don't have the sheen of ICE cars, and designed a manual electric. Also, you can chose between automatic if you just want to drive and manual when you want to have old-fashioned fun, it is a pretty good idea actually.

[Black_Star]

Originally Posted by narayans80

Except racing, I don't see why road cars need manual transmission at all for EV.

Yeah you are right, Drift cars will benefit a lot from this. Combine the instantaneous torque with a manual gearbox you will end up with a drift monster. And in the long run we will end up seeing this tech for road-going cars

And while everyday people dont need a manual gear box for their EV, many driving enthusiast would rather want it when the world slowly goes to all EV cars. With EU banning sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2035, there wont be a manual car left for enthusiast unless they add a manual to an EV.

[lapis_lazuli]

Often, a patent is to shroud in ambiguity, in labyrinth of grammar and convoluted statements, the basic essence of the technology by way of disclosure. There has been multiple instances of a patent being violated in one of its embodiments rather than the first page idea. Maintaining a patent is expensive, and while we may jeer at Toyota's seemingly crazy idea, there's probably a lot being protected and the idea/embodiment might extend to a prime mover, farm vehicle, aircraft, underwater vehicles or robot mobility. Let's not restrict the scope at just a cursory glance.

Often, a patent is filed to mislead, divert attention and "make believe" strategic direction of a company to its competition.

Often, the real, valuable information is a "trade secret" and not a "patent" at all, which is mandatory disclosure of what you have innovated!

[RahulNagaraj]

According to a media report, Toyota has filed multiple patent applications for a clutch-operated manual transmission mechanism for its electric vehicles. As per reports, electric vehicles will come with a 'pseudo-shifter' and 'pseudo-clutch', which replicate the operations of a traditional manual gearbox on an IC-engined car.



The technology is said to feature a powertrain control module, which, depending upon the shifter position and a simulated rpm (shown on a tachometer), controls the torque output by the electric motor. The electric motor is also programmed to stall the vehicle if the simulated rpm becomes too low. The technology also includes a reaction force generator, which offers vibrations and even pushes back the driver's foot, mimicking the operations of a clutch pedal on a traditional IC-engined car.



However, the terms 'pseudo-shifter' and 'pseudo-clutch' used in the patent applications, could suggest that the technology is just for fun and doesn't actually interfere with the actual operations of the vehicle.

Source: bZForums

Link to Team-BHP news

[koyomi_araragi]

So this is the automotive equivalent of having analogue clock faces on your smartwatch!

Although it does seem ludicrous, I for one welcome this new tech as it may lead to some niche products, like for example, an MX-5 type electric vehicle meant for the weekends and with low power.

With the way software options are making their way into cars, who knows? Toyota may charge you yearly to unlock "engine noise" on your brand new e-sportscar to go along with the shifter mechanism. You can choose the most expensive LFA sound or a more budget friendly AE86s sound!

[vredesbyrd]

I believe if manufacturers add MT or even TC/DCT to EVs then it'll make them only half boring in my eyes. One can only dream. Maybe I'll even accept them.

Here's a Dzire MT Electric. Wheelspins like crazy (go to 9:25 timestamp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmLTVs3ReI&t=652s

Dear Manufacturers! Please put proper transmissions in your EVs!

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

However, the terms 'pseudo-shifter' and 'pseudo-clutch' used in the patent applications, could suggest that the technology is just for fun and doesn't actually interfere with the actual operations of the vehicle.

Next innovation from Toyota for their EVs:

[ScorpioYadav]

Nothing can sum up how I felt when I read this news than this old meme.

Good thought Toyota !!
But if it is patented, how prohibitive would it be for other OEMs to come up with similar options in their EV offerings ?

[Aravind_M92]

I do appreciate the process of having gears in an EV. But the point of EVs efficiency lies in the minimal list of moving parts ulike a ICE where more energy is lost in heat and moving internal parts as compared to energy utilised in moving the cars.
It Just feels like this tech would gain popularity at a time when battery and charging techniques would improve. Imagine the same EV, one with gearbox has lesser range than one without. The strain on battery going through more charging cycles and more waiting time on charging process! You'll end paying more premium for a gearbox and more electricity bills!

[Sran]

This same thing is being done by our esteemed member stuntfreak. He transforms manual ICE cars into EV's with gears. Has toyota lifted his designs? Stuntfreak has been doing this for couple of years or more.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Sran

This same thing is being done by our esteemed member stuntfreak. He transforms manual ICE cars into EV's with gears. Has toyota lifted his designs? Stuntfreak has been doing this for couple of years or more.

I think there is a misunderstanding here, this patent is about pseudo clutch and gear. The car does not have a mechanical (or physical) clutch or gearbox, it only comes with a clutch pedal and gear shifter like a simulator. The cars electric motor changes it's response based on the gear, making unnecessary sounds when you don't use the clutch properly, the vehicle also can stall.