[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by W.A.G.7

But ev’s involve a certain amount of “prep” work to do before and during the trip. And that’s what I don’t like about electric vehicles: cars in my middle class budget - I need to keep adjusting my driving style to make it to the next goal without getting stranded somewhere in between, whereas those ev’s where I don’t need to worry about my driving range- they are out of my budget!

Preplanning before a trip is required to know possible charging spots. But other than that there is no calculation or planning needed. Once you know your car, you can achieve the desired result every time. Example - I know I get 300 kms in city on every run. My drive is setup accordingly and I enjoy my drive with my favourite music rather than thinking about range or wh/km or charging points

[Redex]

Blimey,
it's very complicated owning an EV. All those calculations amps, kwh, charging time, searching map for charging stations, how much range will the A/C use, pre cooling the car, how much range can I add using regen braking, have I got the right lead/plug, messing around with high voltage wires and plugs probably wet and dirty, what if the charging point doesn't work, what if there is a long line of cars waiting to charge, all those stops waiting to charge on a long trip,etc etc.

My 2004 Ford Focus 1.8TDDI has a full to empty range of over 1,200 kms when driven like an EV. Has a simple to understand range gauge Full to Empty. Can refill at any fuel station in under 5 minutes. No planning, no range anxiety, no calculations, no leads plugs chargers or sockets, no hassle. Just worry free fun.

BEV NO THANKS

I think my next car will be a Hydrogen FCEV probably in the next 5 to 10 years.

My Hydrogen FCEV will have a full to empty range of over 1,200 kms when driven like an EV. Have a simple to understand range gauge Full to Empty. Can refill at any fuel station in under 5 minutes. No planning, no range anxiety, no calculations, no leads plugs chargers or sockets, no hassle. Just worry free fun.

See you all in the FUTURE. It is "coming" !!!

Drive safe.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Redex

No planning, no range anxiety, no calculations, no leads plugs chargers or sockets, no hassle. Just worry free fun.

See you all in the FUTURE. It is "coming" !!!

Drive safe.

Yeah..with 3 H2 refuelling stations(reduced from 11 stations 2 years ago) in entire UK, FCEV vehicles need no planning, no range anxiety, no calculations, they are always safely parked in the garage.

[Redex]

Hi,
You will note that I said "in the future".
The infrastructure is the issue.
More support is needed from the Government to create the infrastructure, Germany now have over 100 filling stations.
The hydrogen currently supplied is not all "green".

Adoption of Hydrogen FCEV is going to be a slow process, at least 10 years.
FCEV,s have only been around for 21 years.
BEV,s have had 124 years !!!! to become the vehicles they are today.

It will start with transport vehicles, buses, agricultural machines, industrial plant, heavy goods vehicles and trains.Power heavy work where a BEV is not practical.
Some of these vehicles, and machinery will be Hydrogen ICE engines.
JCB have committed to replacing all of their diesel engines with Hydrogen ICE. They already have a working replacement. You may have read that they plan to build the H2 ICE at their manufacturing plant in Haryana. They already build 200 engines a day in India.

The UK government are fixated on achieving Net Zero before the rest of the world.
Sadly, the cheapest, fastest and easiest route is BEV,s. Although that is not going to plan, the deadline for all cars to be BEV,s has been moved from 2030 to 2035.
Running a BEV in the UK and charging on the public network has become more expensive than running my 20 year old diesel Focus, up to 30% more if using a fast charger.
All cars, petrol, diesel, lpg, hybrids, and plug in hybrids will no longer be available as new cars, from 2035.

[NomadSK]

Originally Posted by Redex

Hi,
You will note that I said "in the future".
The infrastructure is the issue.
More support is needed from the Government to create the infrastructure, Germany now have over 100 filling stations.
The hydrogen currently supplied is not all "green".

I can totally relate to this. The bigwigs of the Hydrocarbon industry are heavily investing in green hydrogen. Currently its Gray and Blue hydrogen which rules the roost. Time will tell whether a global green-hydrogen market will get off the ground in the coming years.

It will start with transport vehicles, buses, agricultural machines, industrial plant, heavy goods vehicles and trains.Power heavy work where a BEV is not practical.
Some of these vehicles, and machinery will be Hydrogen ICE engines.
JCB have committed to replacing all of their diesel engines with Hydrogen ICE. They already have a working replacement. You may have read that they plan to build the H2 ICE at their manufacturing plant in Haryana. They already build 200 engines a day in India.

Green hydrogen has been touted as a replacement for fossil fuels in industrial processes such as Steel/Refining/Glass that require high temperatures and where electrification is not practical or too costly. As of now it's a demand-supply game and project developers are waiting for the demand to surge, that they can go all out to invest in these projects. Even china's Sinopec (state refiner) is actively investing in Green hydrogen.

Reliance

Shell

Aramco

[KingAlec]

Originally Posted by W.A.G.7

But… think of it. if I need to do so many calculations for every trip that I do in my electric car/bike, when would I enjoy driving/riding the same? We get a car or a bike because we all like driving/riding. But ev’s involve a certain amount of “prep” work to do before and during the trip. And that’s what I don’t like about electric vehicles: cars in my middle class budget - I need to keep adjusting my driving style to make it to the next goal without getting stranded somewhere in between, whereas those ev’s where I don’t need to worry about my driving range- they are out of my budget!

I would humbly disagree. I only apply these tips and tricks and calculations when I want to maximise the range of my EV. On normal days (home- office- home), I enjoy the instant torque that only an EV can deliver.

Overtaking almost any dino juice vehicle on the road is fun. And feels almost unethical at times, because we are playing by different rules.

I believe what we are discussing on this thread are not the necessary things to mandatorily practice while driving an EV (range is not everything for daily driving. Fun is more important on most of the days).

We are talking about the possibilities for maximizing range - things to know to understand the machine better and to put to use only when required.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by KingAlec

On normal days (home- office- home), I enjoy the instant torque that only an EV can deliver.

[snip]

Fun is more important on most of the days.

We are talking about the possibilities for maximizing range - things to know to understand the machine better and to put to use only when required.

And there is fun in maximising range even when not required just so that one can feel smug and boast around in the next TeamBHP thread.

[KingAlec]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

And there is fun in maximising range even when not required just so that one can feel smug and boast around in the next TeamBHP thread.

Agreed. For people who like to tinker around with settings, EVs open a different world of cause-effect based experimentation. Too many things that can be played with. And that's fun too.

For driving purists - the noise, vibration and harshness levels of an EV and the instant torque are somethings they will appreciate. That caters to the traditional definition of driving fun. And rightfully so.

But in the end - it's a personal choice, and a personal definition of what fun you want to get out of your driving experience.

[EV Fan]

Recently switched to Sport mode on the Kona and noticed an immediate difference in the Regen modes between Sports mode & Eco modes. It's far milder - the Regen 2 of Sport mode feels closer to Regen 1 of ECO mode.

Result: Spectacular Regen engagement & finesse. It felt extremely intuitive to me and just so smooth. Don't feel like reverting back to Eco mode now...
"Cherry on the Cake" - MID showed 11.8KM/KWh (Sport Mode) on exactly same stretches that i used to get 11.5KM/KWh on ECO mode... It seems i am better off with Sport mode than with ECO mode.

And more interestingly it gave me some anomalous efficiency figures(in a good way).
The calculated KM/KWh with Odo reading came higher than the MID indicated KM/KWh. I have never got this before with Eco or Comfort mode but only with Sport mode on Kona. Anyone ever noticed something like this before?


These were all round trips and mostly the same trips that i have done before with almost exactly same conditions but the only difference being Sport mode.


Something that caught my attention
We definitely need few of these for the EV's. Can almost imagine a even higher range with the remaining of these upgrades on the EV

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

According to a media report, YouTuber B Sport, managed to increase his 2006 VW Passat's fuel efficiency by an impressive 33% via a bunch of straightforward aerodynamic modifications.
Before the modifications, B Sport recorded a fuel economy figure of 43 mpg (18.2 km/l). However, post the aerodynamic modifications, he registered a fuel efficiency figure of 57 mpg (24.2 km/l) on the highway and 52 mpg (22 km/l) during his regular commute. This is an impressive increase considering the car is powered by an old 1.9-litre diesel engine paired with a 5-speed manual transmission.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...aero-mods.html (VW Passat owner increases car's mileage from 18 km/l to 24 km/l via simple aero mods)

[speedmiester]

EVs can offer great range with little control of the right foot.

I did the same route in similar condition 10months apart. In the first instance I drove with a heavy foot with an average speed of 71KMPH. The car consumed 76% for 212Kms with an efficiency of 6.9Km/KWH. Time taken for this distance is 3hrs 2mins

I did the same route this Monday with light foot. I covered the same distance in 3hrs 22mins with an avg speed of 63Kmph and got an efficiency of 10Km/kwh.
I still had 56% battery left compared to 24% in my earlier drives.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Recently switched to Sport mode on the Kona and noticed an immediate difference in the Regen modes between Sports mode & Eco modes. It's far milder - the Regen 2 of Sport mode feels closer to Regen 1 of ECO mode.

Result: Spectacular Regen engagement & finesse. It felt extremely intuitive to me and just so smooth. Don't feel like reverting back to Eco mode now...
"Cherry on the Cake" - MID showed 11.8KM/KWh (Sport Mode) on exactly same stretches that i used to get 11.5KM/KWh on ECO mode... It seems i am better off with Sport mode than with ECO mode.

I think it is a balance between

1. The sensitivity of the throttle

2. Harshness of the regen.

We know for sure that aggressive regen is bad on highways so if the sports mode is making regen milder that would make sense. However, what god giveth he taketh. Unless you have a feather touch legs the sesitivity of the throttle would make it bad.

But the question remains why not try regen 0 (to avoid agressive regen) with eco mode (for better sensitivity of accelerator) instead of sports.

By the way I am uncomfortable with both sports mode and regen 0 from the safety point of view. I did a full month of driving (office-house) at regen 0 and it helped in the high way stretches but I definitely did not enjoy it that much (that Nexon Max does not have paddle shifters of regen control makes it a bit risky to keep changing it often). May be I will give the sports mode a try and see how it goes.

And more interestingly it gave me some anomalous efficiency figures(in a good way).
The calculated KM/KWh with Odo reading came higher than the MID indicated KM/KWh. I have never got this before with Eco or Comfort mode but only with Sport mode on Kona. Anyone ever noticed something like this before?

May be sports mode allows you to (also ?) violate physics other than have fun of course.

May be it has got to do with the level of charge that is there in the battery. I remeber you mention to me that you used to get better range with slower charger.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

EVs can offer great range with little control of the right foot.

What I think i forgot to highlight was, for Kona, the efficiency in Eco & Sports mode made almost no difference if driving technique is same.
The regen also has quite an impact, as pointed by electric_eel

Originally Posted by electric_eel

I think it is a balance between
1. The sensitivity of the throttle
2. Harshness of the regen.

The major takeaway for me was the milder / fine regen control on Sports mode gave me actually better KM/KWh figures in SPORTS mode than in ECO mode. Basically i think that the modes hardly make a difference when the person is driving very defensively(or efficiently in this case)
I always toggle between Regen 0 & Regen 1 during driving with least braking if possible.
The Regen 1 in ECO mode was quite strong to begin with and the Regen 1 in SPORTS mode was quite mild. preventing the recuperation+acceleration losses by a noticeable margin.
The Regen losses in ECO mode was higher even with the Regen 1, the SPORTS mode helped as the Regen 1 was quite milder and hence lower losses.
This can be well understood from electric eel's earlier thread on this:

Originally Posted by electric_eel

Aggressive regen can actually reduce an EV's range on the highway | The science behind it
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/elect...ml#post5583153

Originally Posted by electric_eel

(that Nexon Max does not have paddle shifters of regen control makes it a bit risky to keep changing it often). May be I will give the sports mode a try and see how it goes.

Yup, i do use Kona's paddle shifters to slow to a stop, basically increasing regen levels progressively as i near the stopping point.
The Regen levels (even lowest one) was uncomfortably aggressive in ECO mode, the Sports is so mild that it feels almost like coasting to a stop.

Originally Posted by electric_eel

May be it has got to do with the level of charge that is there in the battery. I remeber you mention to me that you used to get better range with slower charger.

Checked all parameters, the conditions, driving & charging technique were almost same in both the modes.
But i have never got the Odometer KM/KWh higher in any other mode except SPORTS mode. I do not know if Kona uses a different logic for MID KM/KWh calculation across the different modes.
But its almost like i got the fuel efficiency on MID lower than the tankful to tankful method calculation in fuel cars.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

What I think i forgot to highlight was, for Kona, the efficiency in Eco & Sports mode made almost no difference if driving technique is same.
The regen also has quite an impact, as pointed by electric_eel

The major takeaway for me was the milder / fine regen control on Sports mode gave me actually better KM/KWh figures in SPORTS mode than in ECO mode. Basically i think that the modes hardly make a difference when the person is driving very defensively(or efficiently in this case)

Yes your observation matches with that of mine. I get the same or sometimes even better efficiency in City mode as opposed to ECO mode and on top of that City mode feels more "refined" and I kind of prefer it almost always (with Regen 1). I have not yet got the courage to try it with Sports mode.


Also your efficiency is jealousy inducing; please do not reveal that you did it with AC on so that we mere mortals can have some place to hide our 1 tonne weighing right foot .

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

and on top of that City mode feels more "refined" and I kind of prefer it almost always (with Regen 1).

Does the regen strength change based on the mode selected on nexon too?
Basically how strong Regen 1 feels in the ECO or Sport or City modes?

Originally Posted by electric_eel

Also your efficiency is jealousy inducing

I dont always drive with efficiency in mind, its just that i try sometimes when i like to push it. And so hoping to have all the hyper-milling tricks ready on my sleeve.

As other members also said, it is just when we "Like to" or "in dire circumstances Need to" push it...

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Does the regen strength change based on the mode selected on nexon too?
Basically how strong Regen 1 feels in the ECO or Sport or City modes?

I do not know how to objectively find this out. There is indeed a feeling of more refinement but it could be a placebo kind of effect.