[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

I do not know how to objectively find this out. There is indeed a feeling of more refinement but it could be a placebo kind of effect.

Okey a couple of days of driving in Sports mode (god I never thought I would do it), I have to say that I am enjoying it. As expected there is no difference in the range but the regen harshness (Regen 1 mode), at least at higher speeds, seems to be milder. Again I do not have an objective way to check this.

There is however something strange happening with the DTE predictor. It has gone completely insane (I have learned to ignore it quite early in my driving life with NExon EV). When I used to drive exclusively with ECO mode it used to show on full charge 330 odd kms with AC and about 380-390 odd with AC and in that sense it was more or less accurate. But when I started using city mode, the DTE (in eco mode) became 420-430 (which is clearly unrealistic with my driving) . Now that I have driven it with sports I am expecting to cross 500 some time . I think it is understandable because it might have some fixed logic which says that if the predicated range in Sports mode is X then it should be some (1+deta) X for eco which is absurd because I am not going to get that.

Moral of the story completely ignore DTE once you have done some unconventional driving.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

Moral of the story completely ignore DTE once you have done some unconventional driving.

Did you try clearing the Tripmeter & any driving history/statistics from infotainment?

Could it be that in Nexon changing the mode with the old history plays haywire for DTE?

Unfortunately the Kona was not so optimistic, it actually showed a lower DTE (388 instead of 393) in Sports mode even with old ECO mode historic data.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

Did you try clearing the Tripmeter & any driving history/statistics from infotainment?

I reset the trip meter every time. I mean there are two trip meters A and B. B I reset every time I charge to 100% and trip A at the start of every driving day. Unfortunately not much data is available from the infotainment screen and detailed statistics like driving score and trip history is only available through the zconnect app which I have not checked for ages.

Could it be that in Nexon changing the mode with the old history plays haywire for DTE?

It appears to be the case. If I continue to stick to ECO mode I think DTE will eventually become accurate (ie. 330/380 with AC/Non-AC in ECO mode and lesser with City and even lesser in sports). So there is altogether a total of 4 (regen level) * 3 (drive mode = 12 different DTEs possible. I do not think there can be any sensible data that can come from this.

Unfortunately the Kona was not so optimistic, it actually showed a lower DTE (388 instead of 393) in Sports mode even with old ECO mode historic data.

Even in this case the DTE shown is lowest in Sports next in City and then in ECO (for a given regen setting) but it probably tries to become too smart by half. When it realises I am doing 110 Wh/Km in Sports it kind of believes I am some god who can probably do 80 Wh/Km or something like that in ECO at level 3 regen. It probably does not realise that irrespective of the mode I can only do so much.

[Joe367]

Originally Posted by Redex

Blimey,
it's very complicated owning an EV. All those calculations amps, kwh, charging time, searching map for charging stations, how much range will the A/C use, pre cooling the car, how much range can I add using regen braking, have I got the right lead/plug, messing around with high voltage wires and plugs probably wet and dirty, what if the charging point doesn't work, what if there is a long line of cars waiting to charge, all those stops waiting to charge on a long trip,etc etc.

I think you're overcomplicating things. It's like stressing over where we will get fuel if theres another world war. Most people who buy EVs are already aware of the range limitations and have an idea on how much distance they drive on a daily basis, how frequently they should charge etc. It also takes away stress of driving in city - knowing you're not emptying your tank in a traffic jam moving in first or second gear.
Also we've had good hydrogen cars from Toyota and Hyundai before we had good EV's. There are so many reasons why it didn't succeed.

1. the hydrogen tanks, batteries in some cases, motors and fuel cell takes up a lot of space inside the car reducing space available for passengers and luggage.
2. producing green hydrogen requires a lot of electricity and compressing, transporting and filling them into cars also waste a lot of energy
3. Hydrogen being compressed, clogs the fuel filler often and isn't as fast or easy as filling petrol or diesel.
4. It makes people highly uncomfortable sitting on top of hydrogen tanks.

Except for trucks, excavators or buses I don't see hydrogen making a comeback , in passenger vehicles.

[Redex]

White hydrogen may well be the next "gold rush". Natural hydrogen wells were first discovered over a hundred years ago. A town in Mali Africa has been generating electricity for its homes and businesses for over 10 years. White hydrogen has recently been discovered in France. The US, Russia, Australia, Europe and Oman also have discovered deposits of white hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe.
Toyota, Hyundai and Honda already manufacture FCEV,s. Hydrogen powered commercial vehicles are becoming more common.
The hydrogen industry has only just started, investment is pouring in. It will change dramatically, just as BEV,s did.
I still say wait 10 years and hydrogen will be a viable alternative to conventional BEV,s. Battery electric cars will still have a place in the "green car industry". FCEV,s will be better suited for high mileage users and commercial vehicles, buses and trains. My weekly commute is 880kms on average, an FCEV or Hydrogen Ice car would be a perfect solution for me, I can wait.
I don't understand the negativity some people have towards a hydrogen economy.
Regards Neil

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by Redex

White hydrogen may well be the next "gold rush". Natural hydrogen wells were first discovered over a hundred years ago. A town in Mali Africa has been generating electricity for its homes and businesses for over 10 years. White hydrogen has recently been discovered in France. The US, Russia, Australia, Europe and Oman also have discovered deposits of white hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe.

There is an improvement on your position Redex, you have moved from green hydrogen bandwagon to white. Hydrogen might be most abundant element in the Universe but If you are going to use that logic then we should be burning diamonds in our steel furnaces as it is the most abundant form of Carbon on earth (deep in the mantle of course).

Toyota, Hyundai and Honda already manufacture FCEV,s. Hydrogen powered commercial vehicles are becoming more common.

Keep dreaming, meanwhile in another post Toyota themselves seems to be giving up on Mirai. They now have a new technology "solid state battery". I am sure they can satisfy your need of 1500 Km range 10 min charging car

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/inter...ml#post5654664 (After Mirai's failure, Toyota shifts Hydrogen focus to commercial vehicle segment)

[Redex]

Sadly, that is exactly the kind of anti hydrogen response I was expecting.
Meanwhile, in the real world. The U.K. has cut coal consumption for electricity to about 1%. India has increased coal produced electricity by over 12% to the highest level in 30 years, currently about 73%. Emissions from electricity production have risen over 16% producing 1.15 billion tonnes of pollution.
The "elephant in the room" springs to mind. Be it green or white hydrogen, surely it has to be better than burning an increasing amount of fossil fuels to provide electricity.
The remark "I offset my carbon by using solar panels at home" does not hold water. The solar generated home electricity used to charge your car means you are using more coal electricity to run your home.
Still don't understand why most people cannot see the benefit of "a fuel source with virtually zero emissions". Without even mentioning the "real world" impact of producing batteries, and recharging using mostly fossil fuels.
In the U.K. we now have over 42% of our electricity produced from renewable sources. India has only reached 11.8% even with all the sun you have. Or use the wind, the U.K. gets 32% of its electricity from wind generation.
BEV,s just take the pollution from the car and move it to the power station, excellent for reducing pollution in cities but not good for the world.
Regards Neil

[Joe367]

Although I don't agree with every statement made in this video, it gives an insight on why Hydrogen powered cars failed.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=N1dveN6O...8Z3EVnc5dlJJiq

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by Redex

Sadly, that is exactly the kind of anti hydrogen response I was expecting.

This thread is about extracting the maximum range out of a BEV and is not about hydrogen. Why hydrogen is a bad fuel has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads in this forum. Start your own thread on the suitability of hydrogen and get it debunked.

[wocanak]

Originally Posted by Redex

The remark "I offset my carbon by using solar panels at home" does not hold water. The solar generated home electricity used to charge your car means you are using more coal electricity to run your home.

By offset what people mean is, if I consume X units of electricity to charge my car, the solar panels at home produce at least X units of electricity monthly/annually. Can you explain how this can lead to "more coal electricity to run your home"?

It is strange that you use the inefficient and currently non-existent "green hydrogen" to support hydrogen cars, but simply dismiss EVs charged today with solar panels.

[Aditya]

Mod Note: Thread going off-topic. Please restrict the discussion to EV-Specific efficiency quirks & tricks to improve range.

[EV Fan]

So, finally got a chance to do a comparative test with the Kona loaded with Driver only, 2 people & totally loaded with 5 people.

The route was almost the same with the following difference.
1.) Driver only 70 kg with minimal luggage(2kgs). AC set to "Driver Only" mode so minimal AC usage as the AC is blowing only on driver side AC vents (2 on the right) and does not have to cool the entire cabin.
Only mistake was it was not the exact same driving style. Higher average speed and lower time. So included another same route statistics with the similar driving style as below.
2.) 2 people so around 70+55=125kg and small amount of luggage say 5kgs. The front AC vents (all 4) were working and rear were closed.
3.) 5 people so around 70+55*4=290 kg and loaded luggage say 15kgs. The AC on full blast as all vents were open and the entire cabin had to be cooled.
4.) Driver only 70 kg with minimal luggage(2kgs). AC set to "Driver Only" mode and sometimes blower only as it was actually cold & rainy. The route was same with slight route deviations but with cool/rainy weather, gives a good comparison as the driving style was same(same average speed).

Vehicle - Hyundai Kona 39.2KWh

Route: South Kerala so predominantly single carriageway or an undivided highway with 2 lanes (on both the sides) but some sections only have single lanes(on both sides). 150 kms of narrow & winding/twisty highway (can barely hit 80 with constant aggressive acceleration & braking) and 50km of good highway(can keep a constant 80 even with defensive driving).





Key takeaway
1.) Closing AC vents which are not being used like rear vents or sometimes even the co passenger side can impact a lot. For a driver alone the entire cabin need not be cooled.
you can do this manually by closing AC vents or if the vehicle supports then utilize "Driver Only" Mode.
2.) Can get good mileage even if good speeds are achieved as long as acceleration is gradual & linear. Think economically driving an underpowered car. Closest reference i can think of is Honda WR-V 1.2 Ltr NA Petrol and speed limited to 90.

[electric_eel]

Originally Posted by EV Fan

So, finally got a chance to do a comparative test with the Kona loaded with Driver only, 2 people & totally loaded with 5 people.

I should say I am throughly impressed with the numbers you are churning out consistently. And after driving your Kona, I have to admit that it is much more refined than the Nexon. What I really liked about the driving is

1. Although sports mode gives good acceleration, some how it felt less scary than Nexons sports mode.

2. The regen 1 in sports mode is much more mild (almost to the level of zero regen). Since the drive on Kona I specifically drove Nexon looking into this aspect. Although the sports mode seemed more refined it looks like the regen levels are not toned down to such a level (or may be they are the same across the modes).

3. The left paddle shifter is just amazing for braking although during the drive due to force of habit I was using the brakes often when I could have used the paddle shifter. The closest that one can get in Nexon is to set regen to 0 and feather touch the brakes.

All this point to a superb tuning of the drive train of Kona and in skillful hands it can bring out amazing efficiency numbers. It is a pity that they did not make a serious attempt for selling Konas in India.

I can think of one sure shot experiment which can confirm the regen level tuning for which it is best to get a straight stretch of level road in a race track.

1. Set the cruise control to a particular value (say 40 Kmph) and enter the stretch.

2. Remove the cruise control and note down the dip in speed as time progress.

3. Repeat the experiment across modes and different regen levels.

[EV Fan]

Originally Posted by electric_eel

3. The left paddle shifter is just amazing for braking although during the drive due to force of habit I was using the brakes often when I could have used the paddle shifter. The closest that one can get in Nexon is to set regen to 0 and feather touch the brakes
All this point to a superb tuning of the drive train of Kona and in skillful hands it can bring out amazing efficiency numbers.

It does help tremendously especially when using progressive regen to slow down and then to halt without using the friction brakes. From what i understood, below creep speeds, even feather touching the brake pedal engages the friction brakes and not the Regen. So the paddle shifters allow to minimize the braking loss.

Originally Posted by electric_eel

I can think of one sure shot experiment which can confirm the regen level tuning for which it is best to get a straight stretch of level road in a race track.

Tried it, not recorded it but on Regen 1 of Sports mode the vehicle rolled far beyond the points where it had slowed to 20kmph in "ECO" & "COMFORT" mode...
It was almost double the distance than at Regen 1 of Eco mode.



As o f now, most of my experiments were to see how much mileage can be improved by effective use of AC. I knew it helps with mileage but it helps when we can see the numbers.
So the other experiment is by preserving the momentum(basically avoid stopping).The highest outflow is always when starting from standstill and i literally avoid stopping if i can.

Example:


In this above round trip , the vehicle was rolling throughout without any regen. So, braked only once to turn back to home.

Anyways all the experiments are on hold as the vehicle is stranded...!!! Repeat issue and its on the 3rd round to the Service center ....

[EV Fan]

A brief on a recent comparative test with the Kona driven defensively vs "in a hurry".
Defensive Driving - Flow with traffic, overtakes only if substantial gap available in front of vehicle to be overtaken, no squeezing in between to shave seconds. Momentum gained while overtaking not recuperated, instead , used to let the car roll.
"In a Hurry" Driving - Aggressive overtakes (almost equivalent to Car hopping in a queue of slow moving traffic, though safely navigating in between traffic). But in no way reckless or even close to some of the pro drivers here in the forum

Result: Around 10-15 mins of time saved (around 25 mins on a round trip) while sacrificing 7% range.



Load & AC details:
1.) AC set for Front cooling (disabled rear vents) and does not have to cool the entire car cabin. The front AC vents (all 4) were working and rear were closed.
2.) 2 people so around 70+55=125kg and small amount of luggage say 5kgs.
3.) The route was exactly same with only driving style difference.

Vehicle - Hyundai Kona 39.2KWh

Route: Chengannur to Aluva via Alappuzha & back. South Kerala so predominantly single carriageway or an undivided highway with 2 lanes (on both the sides) but some sections only have single lanes(on both sides) or ongoing road work.

Traffic: Smooth but slow moving traffic from Haripad to Alappuzha (80 to 60kmph). Heavy Traffic between Alappuzha to Aluva(Equivalent to crawling city traffic). While nearing Ernakulam- traffic further worsened by highway expansion works.

Key takeaway
1.) Overtakes can impact efficiency, if we are forced to slow down/brake immediately due to traffic ahead. For some one looking for range & efficiency it is better to just continue with the flow till a substantial gap opens up in front of the vehicle to be overtaken. It is better than queue hopping - overtaking car by car. Hardly saves any substantial time.
2.) Defensive driving does not necessarily mean substantially lower speeds, but it definitely means higher efficiencies.
3.) Kerala highways are still a far cry from most of the other states unless we compare it to Northeast.