24th December 2023, 13:57
| #1 |
| BHPian  Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Kerala
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| A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Mine started with a 1000 kms and 3 guys whom I had never met in my life, all thanks to Team bhp. Prelude: About a year back, I was on the look out for an electric car and created this (Should I sell 2 ICE vehicles to buy an electric car? If so, which one?) thread to gather opinions from other team bhpians. We were a 3 car garage with an SUV, sedan and hatchback - perfectly balanced as all things should be! But when a good offer came for our hatchback - the Swift, which was sparingly used (200 kms in 6 months) - we decided to part ways with it. Thus we limited ourselves to a 2 car garage - the XUV500 and Elantra. Both these cars were champs on their own rights. But a daily trip of around 60-100 kms was pinching the wallet concerning fuel expenses, not to mention the EMI part, especially while using the XUV. My routes are fixed 90% of the time, so an EV did make a lot of sense. Now although the EV would be a secondary car in the family, it would be my primary car. So prioritised the ones which gave respectable range at a reasonable price. Nexon EV max and XUV400 EL were the only options that were within an allocated budget of 20-21L. Took multiple TDs of both cars and liked both of them, but felt wanting in some areas. The Nexon impressed with the kit on offer, but the fact that it is still a sub 4m car at 20L was a hard pill to swallow. The XUV400 impressed with its performance and suspension, but the archaic interiors were a letdown. So I had to sacrifice something or the other with either of these cars. I also considered the Kona and ZS EV. Both of them felt like a segment above but were much more expensive at 25L+. Truth be told, the Kona was my pick of the lot with its superlative driving experience and I remember sighing once the white test drive Kona left our premises with me thinking “Damn! I really loved that car, wish I could buy it!”. But, I didn’t want to stretch my budget uncomfortably high. So with a heavy heart, I looked at the other available options. The news about the Nexon EV facelift was also doing the rounds, hence decided to wait for it before making a final call. Good things come to those who wait… Come September, Tata launched a banger of a car with the new Nexon.EV. It looked chic, had all the bells and whistles and I felt that this was much more worthy of a 20L price tag than the older one. By October, took multiple test drives of the Nexon.EV. It was such a well-rounded product, but certain things were bothering me at the back of my mind. The space at the front, although reasonable, gives you this feeling that the passenger is sitting a bit too close to the driver and elbow rubs were rather common. The suspension, although nice, felt a bit unsettled at the rear especially when going through uneven roads. Maybe it’s because of the short rear overhang and the sub-4 m length? Not sure. A bit too much techy stuff and the worry about whether all of them will work flawlessly.  Still, I decided to go with the Nexon.EV and booked an Empowered Plus LR in Daytona Grey (22.05L on road) in the first week of November. I believed that all that waiting around for almost a year was for this particular moment, where I am getting a pretty sorted latest gen EV. But nope, life had other plans in store for me. It’s kind of funny how life can change, can flip 180 in a matter of days… On the day of booking, I had asked the Tata guys to give a valuation for my XUV500 and the sum they quoted was paltry, to say the least. So I decided to search around to get some good prices and tried Cardekho, Spinny etc. By then, news of heavily discounted XUV400 was doing the rounds. Although, we had ditched the 400 in favour of Nexon.EV, I just wanted to see the prices Mahindra quotes for their cars. Gave them a call and the guys swooped down with an XUV400 eager to make a sale. The price they quoted was better than the Tata guys. Still on the lower side, but better. But taking a TD of the 400 again, my folks now started preferring it over the Nexon.EV. Let’s face it, it has got all the necessary features required in a car, sans auto AC perhaps, but still. The space and comfort were much better than the Nexon. The writing on the wall was clear. Folks loved the 400, and I too, but I was worried that it would feel way too outdated within a few years. But anyway decided to take the plunge with the 400. The price wars… If I’m going with the 400, I have to get the best offer out there. I wasn’t going down without a fight. Hence called up multiple Mahindra dealerships from across the state to see who offers the best price for their 400 in exchange for my 500. And it was glorious to watch how the price of the 400 dropped from 19L to 18.5L and finally 18L within a few days. But the price for my XUV500 showed only a modest increase across these dealerships and it stagnated for a while. I also called up my Tata dealership to inform them about the new developments, and they straight away offered a 30k discount on the Nexon.EV as well. Things were getting really interesting at this point. Just for the fun of it, I decided to call the Hyundai dealership to rekindle that old flame of mine, the Kona, and guess what, they were now offering it for 23.5L. Infused with the confidence of bargaining with the Mahindra guys, I straight away asked for 22L. The sales exec was courteous enough to drop off a courtesy Kona at our doorsteps for a full 3 days, and boy did it change our decision yet again. When you test drive a car for some time, you get to know it. But when you live with a car for some time, you get to understand it. Over those 3 days, I discovered that the Kona is much more of a driver’s car than I had ever imagined. Those 3 days marked an end to the confusion regarding my next car purchase - it would be the Kona. But we didn’t have an agreement on the price yet. After returning the courtesy car, there were a lot of to-and-fro negotiations. The sales exec was adamant that anything below 23L was going to be impossible for him. But because I was so in love with the car, I almost decided to close that deal. Besides the Hyundai dealer also quoted a half-decent price for my XUV500, unlike Tata and Mahindra. But, the very next day the sales guy informed me that he couldn’t procure approval from higher management for 23L and the price of 23.5L was final. I was kinda disappointed at hearing this, but even at 1.5L more than the Nexon.EV, the Kona was of tremendous value. However, I decided to explore all my options. This was when the next turn of events unfolded. Some people are God sent…. The confusion between Nexon.EV and XUV400 after discounts had led me to create a post in team bhp and the thread (Mahindra XUV400 after discounts Vs Tata Nexon EV) that followed. This was where I met 2 guys, who would turn out to be instrumental in this entire saga. First is Vimal (tbhp handle - EV Fan, more like EV info powerhouse if you ask me). We started talking regarding the AC compressor issue that his Kona had, and the way that this guy explains the intricacies of EVs is just mesmerising. Although, he was trying to dissuade me from an impulsive decision early on, the more I talked to him, the more my conviction shifted from ‘want’ to ‘need’. By the end of our first convo which lasted almost an hour and a half, I NEEDED the Kona. By the way, if anyone is considering an EV and is in two minds about it, talk to EV Fan and you will be an instant convert. Parallel to my conversations with EV Fan, negotiations were going on with my Hyundai Kona Kerala dealer. While going through the official Hyundai Kona thread in Team-bhp to learn more about the car, a post caught my attention. It was from 'Evtdtorque' a.k.a Srikanth who announced that he had just booked a black Kona from Bangalore. I DM’d him to get an idea of the price. The wonderful thing about meeting enthusiasts here at Team-BHP is we just hit it off straight away. There’s no formal ‘getting to know the other person’ phase. We call each other up and talk cars just as if we were doing it since time immemorial. There’s an instant connect. Called up Srikanth and in the convo that followed, he sent me an invoice of the price that he booked the Kona for, and boy was it a steal! It was a good Rs 2+ Lakhs cheaper than the prices quoted by the Kerala dealer, and that makes it effectively cheaper than the top-end Nexon.EV that I had booked earlier. I used this info as leverage to haggle with the Kerala dealer but to no avail. Because I loved the car so much, I was almost convinced of picking up the car at 23L from the Kerala dealer, but then they quoted that 23.5L is non-negotiable. In the heat of the moment, I decided to contact multiple Kona dealers across South India. The hunt begins… Started with the Bangalore dealer where 'Evtdtorque' was going to pick up his Kona. They agreed to match the price at which the car was given to him. But the dealer was a bit too forceful, pressurising me to make a booking even before sharing an official quotation. I also had to sell my XUV500 before plunging in to buy the Kona, and the transportation of the car from Bangalore to Kochi also needed to be sorted, but the dealer wasn’t responding in a helpful tone. I already had some apprehensions about picking the car up from another state, so the added pressure from the side of the dealership didn’t bode well with me. I also called up the Coimbatore dealer and another dealer from Kerala who recently started selling Hyundai EVs. While awaiting their reply, one fine day I received an inconspicuous message from Trident Hyundai, Bangalore. The sales executive was Kiran, with whom Srikanth had shared my number. Kiran patiently listened to my car hunting story till now, addressed my earlier concerns and never tried to force a booking down my throat. Dude checked the Kona with the latest date of manufacture in the yard, shared the details with me and sent an invoice even before a booking was made. This helped speed up the formalities at our bank as well. I felt reassured of giving my business to Trident Hyundai, all thanks to Kiran. Letting go of the past… While the Kona formalities were progressing, my dad had arranged a local used car dealer to have a look at my XUV500. He offered a fair price for the car. Things were clicking into place at a rapid pace. Although this was part of the plan, it is gut-wrenching to see your steed, with whom you had kindled countless memories drive off into the distance with you NOT at the helm. I am sure many bhpians can relate to that feeling.  In my case though, for better or worse, the used car dealership was situated by the road which I usually commute to work and back. So I would be seeing my XUV every day for quite some time. Meeting my Lightfury… Now that the XUV500 was gone, and Kona was booked, I needed to do a PDI of the car before clearing the entire payment. I got into a call with Vimal regarding things I need to look out for. I couldn’t remember half the things that he said to me by the end of that call. Srikanth also offered to help to do the PDI. So I packed up and went to Bangalore. On November 30th, I reached the dealership, and there she was.  Gleaming in front of the dealership, my white beauty. Kiran welcomed me into the car. Truth be told, after spending 5 minutes with the car I was convinced to make the payment then and there. But I took days off a busy schedule at work and came to Bangalore for exactly this, so better do things right. Kiran knew that I was coming for an elaborate PDI, so he offered to park the car in the dealership's backyard and gave the keys to me. He had an important Ioniq test drive to attend to, so he had to be on his way. He asked me to take my time with the PDI. I am sure he had seen the glitter in my eyes when I first saw the car. By this time, I was so overwhelmed with joy and enthusiasm that I forgot all about the other half that Vimal had already communicated to me. Called him up again and he again walked me through each of the things that I was supposed to look into. Meanwhile, Srikanth also joined the PDI. This was the most extensive PDI that I had done to date.  Both Srikanth (on foot) and Vimal (on phone) were at it, looking out for any potential issues and I was just sitting there smiling, thanking my stars that these guys were there to help me out. The PDI took almost two and a half hours. The car was August 2023 assembled, and everything seemed to be in order. The payment was processed. As I am from Kerala, asked the dealer to do temporary registration at Bangalore, and I will be doing permanent registration at my place. The registration formalities would take another 2-3 days but because of work woes, I was not free until December 9th. So it was decided that I would make another trip to Bangalore to pick up the car and drive it down to Kochi. In doing that, 2 issues came up in my mind. One was driving a new car through the notorious Bangalore traffic. The Trident showroom where I did PDI was at Whitefield. I would have to manoeuvre through tight Bangalore traffic for a lot of time until I reached the highway, and that seemed rather nerve-wracking. This was solved by arranging the delivery at the Trident E.C dealership. Kiran graciously agreed to transport the car to the E.C dealership so that we could take delivery from there and start our drive back home as early as possible. But there was still another problem - Range anxiety! De-range anxiety… For the previous few days, everything was happening at lightning speed that rarely did I have the time to sit and think about driving an electric car down from Bangalore to Kochi. Everything from calling Srikanth and Vimal, to the sale of my XUV500, booking the Kona, and arranging the finances happened in less than a week. It was only then that I realised that the Kona was about to be my first EV, and I had virtually no idea about the distribution of fast chargers even in my own hometown, let alone the ones spanning three South Indian states. But it’s okay, we had an ace up our sleeves in the name of Vimal a.k.a EV fan. The dude has been doing Bangalore-Kochi trips in his Kona for ages. Called him up to know the details and he offered to join me to take delivery of the car. We had not met each other in person, ever, and the guy offered to come down to Bangalore to bring the car home. Seriously! This guy is something else. And it was settled, EV fan and I would be going to Bangalore on the 8th of December, take delivery of the car on the 9th and drive back to Kochi the same day. My EV ownership journey was set to start with a 1000 kms Kochi-Bangalore-Kochi round trip. The D-day... On 8th evening, Vimal and I set out to Bangalore. During the trip, he gave me exhaustive information about EVs, the problems faced by his Kona and the future of electric mobility in general. By morning, we reached Bangalore. We had booked a hotel which was within walking distance from the Trident E.C showroom. After freshening up, we went to the showroom and there she was lying in all her glory - my beautiful Lightfury.  Kiran explained all the necessary details, we cleared all the paperwork, the key was handed over and I was officially the owner of a Kona Electric. Time and again I had confessed my crush on the Kona in the forum and when the moment came where I was finally the owner of one, it was just so magical. All the sleepless nights analysing every piece of info, the day-dreams of driving it - feeling the shove of the electric motor, adjusting the regen levels on the fly, pulling the left paddle to stop - all the bits and pieces of the act of driving this car was now a reality.   Me, Vimal and Kiran The long-awaited long drive… After the customary exchange of gifts and a photo session, we started our return journey at around 11.45 AM.  Kiran had ensured that the car was fully charged to 100%. The initial plan was for me to drive for a while and hand over the car to Vimal to see how he was extracting other-worldly efficiency numbers from this drive train. But once we started, I was so addicted to driving that it took almost 200 kms and a rumbling stomach for me to realise that we probably needed to break. Vimal was already on the lookout for chargers and advised to charge ahead, well before going into low battery levels. We had around 150 kms range left at this time. There was a 50kW charger available at Omalur near a restaurant, but it was not functional. Later, we stopped by another restaurant at Omalur itself where a 24kW charger was available.  Vimal showed me how to set up the charging gun and initiate the charging process. We had lunch and the car juiced up for about 25 mins. We set off again and this time Vimal took the wheel. He showed me how to extract maximum efficiency from an electric motor with clean, incomprehensible acceleration, some liberal use of the regen paddles, and smooth deceleration. After a drive of another 150 kms or so, we switched places. I was much more enthusiastic with the throttle though. We Keralites are starved for properly wide, good highways and I desperately wanted to savour every moment of driving on those glorious KA and TN roads. Although we tend to think of EVs as city cars, the Kona makes a case for a proper highway car. The explosive powertrain, the tight chassis, the low centre of gravity, strong braking, adjustable regen and reasonable range - they all come together to form a hell of a fun package.  We were munching miles effortlessly. By around 7.30 PM, we were past Coimbatore and decided to break early for dinner.   Chose a joint between Coimbatore and Walayar and decided to juice up the car while having dinner. What was planned as a short dinner break soon turned out to be a long one, thanks to Vimal’s fetish for the Sambar that the restaurant served there. We just kept on ordering stuff to have it along with the delicious Sambar. The food was great, we had kind of a heavy dinner, the car was reasonably juiced up and we were ready to set out on our last leg of this epic journey. We still had around 150 kms to go. I climbed back into the driver’s seat again. Soon we hit Kerala and the average speeds dropped further. The Kona just kept on munching miles until we reached my home at around 10.30 PM.  Charging at home A total distance of about 540 kms, done in ten and a half hours including breaks, with literally no fatigue and to my surprise, there was still 105 kms of range left. All this on the first day of my EV ownership, couldn’t have asked for a better start! All of this wouldn’t be possible without the help of these guys - Srikanth, who introduced me to the ongoing offers at Bangalore, guided me to the right dealership and helped me with PDI Kiran, who is like the best sales executive one could ask for. Thoroughly professional, courteous and knowledgeable Vimal, who has been my wingman for this whole event. Last but not least, the successful completion of this roller-coaster of a mission was made possible by our very own platform which is Team-bhp! This is one for the ages! So how does it feel to make that transition from ICE to electric, especially in this day and age where arguments for and against both powertrains are aplenty? This is what Abhik from Powerdrift had to say 3 years back, when they published their official review of the Kona. Literally took the words out of my mouth and beautifully summarised them as well: "Driving this car has been an epiphany of sorts. In fact, I’ve said it before and I’m gonna say it again - for all the time I’ve spent behind the wheels of the Kona electric, I haven’t missed the internal combustion engine even once. And that’s because I’ve realised that I actually love driving as an act that perhaps transcends my love for the internal combustion engine. So if your car can go just as well, just as fast and probably even better, just like the Kona electric does, it doesn’t really matter if it’s smiles per gallon or smiles per kilowatt!" |
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24th December 2023, 16:52
| #2 |
| Distinguished - BHPian   Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bangalore
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25th December 2023, 13:53
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| BHPian Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Ahmedabad
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25th December 2023, 15:05
| #4 | |
| BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Noida
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
However, for the benefit of every Hyundai electric owner, I want to say that instances are getting reported where Hyundai seems to be shying away from providing warranty on battery in worst case scenarios. Now, whether this is only country specific, I can't say. This report is fresh (just few days old) and if this is the case, I have to tell people to be very careful while buying Hyundai EVs. Last edited by RDS : 25th December 2023 at 15:09. | |
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25th December 2023, 15:11
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| Newbie Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Palai
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25th December 2023, 18:31
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| BHPian Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: Pune
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Congratulation @GKR9900. Beautifully written post  I would love to hear your periodic reviews of this car, especially with the long journeys, range, and charging stuff. Also, since Vimal (EV Fan) secretly guided you with the first EV car and I think if Vimal can write posts such as "What to do on the first day in your EV car" or "Beginners guide for new EV Owners" covering important topics such as how to get the best range in the real world, how to charge, mistakes that new owners should avoid would be very helpful to potential EV buyers. You were indeed lucky to have him at the time of taking delivery  |
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25th December 2023, 20:15
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| BANNED Join Date: Oct 2023 Location: Bangalore
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25th December 2023, 20:44
| #8 | |
| Newbie Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Mumbai
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
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25th December 2023, 21:55
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| BHPian Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: Thane
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26th December 2023, 21:45
| #10 | ||||||||
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Kerala
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
 Will update this periodically.Quote:
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27th December 2023, 18:16
| #11 | |
| BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Noida
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
If something like this happens, please ensure that you have everything recorded from day 1 - meetings, mails, and everything. | |
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6th January 2024, 19:10
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7th January 2024, 10:26
| #13 | |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Kerala
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
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7th January 2024, 15:48
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| BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore
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Infractions: 0/2 (8) | Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! Quote:
I managed to see, touch, feel and test drive the Kona today for the first time. And yes indeed it is a very worthy car! Ive written my impressions on the official review thread even though that is an older thread. Good for you, that you took the plunge! | |
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8th January 2024, 14:37
| #15 | |
| BHPian Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Kerala
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| Re: A 1000 kms round-trip to buy a Hyundai Kona! ONE MONTH UPDATE: Tomorrow marks one month since Lightfury has joined my family. The Kona has done about 2500 km during the last 30 days. I guess the time is ripe for a small update. Stating out the obvious The most obvious update is that I never had to visit the fuel station even once during this entire period. It is a rather unfamiliar feeling. Before owning an EV, it used to be a routine affair, going and filling up the car. It was kind of a chore too, as I usually preferred a particular station that seemed to provide the best quality fuel. The fuel bills that used to run easily into a couple of tens of thousands have vanished from the list of my monthly expenses. Sweet! After driving the Kona for around a month, I decided to jump into the driver seat of our Hyundai Elantra diesel yesterday. I had always been a fan of the CRDI engines from Hyundai, but the moment you make the shift back from an EV to an ICE, you start noticing the sound of the engine, and it feels rough! Mind you, the 1.6 CRDI was one of the smoothest diesel engines in the country with respect to NVH. The silent experience of driving an EV has surely spoilt my outlook on ICE cars. And the performance...having to wait for the turbo to spool and the engine to cross 1600 rpm was a chore in itself when you are used to lunch forward like a locomotive at 0 rpm. That rush is insanely addictive! First service The first service was done at around 1300 km at Popular Hyundai, Ernakulam. It was just a quick check-up. This was free but ended up replacing my Yi dashcam with a Hyundai Mobius one from the dealership, as it had both front and rear feeds. Set me back by Rs.11500/-. This is the model. https://hyundaimobisin.com/products/...r/825/dash-cam However, pulling the recordings from the Mobius dashcam is a bit difficult as it requires an app that runs on a Windows laptop. The Yi dashcam used to have a mobile app that connected to the camera via Wifi and I could directly download the videos into my mobile. A scary incident A week after the first service, while I was doing my morning commute to work, there was a sudden, loud scraping noise that gave me a panic attack. I was climbing up an incline behind a lorry when this occurred. At first, I couldn't even understand that the sound was coming from my Kona. It took almost a second and some finger-pointing by random onlookers to make me realize that the sound was indeed coming from my car. Pulled over quickly. The origin of the sound was the left front wheel-well area, and the frequency of the sound seemed to correlate with wheel rotation. I visually examined the wheel-well and nothing seemed to be a miss. The sound occurred whenever I tried moving the car. A colleague of mine who was with me at the time shot a video of the event when I tried moving forward. I called EV fan and sent him the video. Also shared it with the 'Kona EV owners' whatsapp group. Within a few minutes, fellow members chipped in citing that the reason could probably be a pebble caught up in between the brake discs. Surprisingly, Mr Sarath, the Popular Hyundai sales manager from Kerala, whom I initially contacted regarding the Kona purchase enquiry called me up and informed me that this indeed seemed to be the most likely explanation, and if there was any way I could remove the front left wheel and inspect for any pebbles caught inside. If not, he said an assistance team could be provided to my location. Despite me taking the car from another dealership, this was a thoroughly professional approach by him. Luckily, I had pulled over near a local garage. Upon request, the mechanic came out, removed the wheel, and inspected the brake disc and alas, there it was...a tiny pebble that was creating all this ruckus. It was removed and the wheel was refitted and the noise was gone. I could finally breathe a sigh of relief. My workplace was barely a kilometre away from where this incident occurred. I had initially considered driving down there to do the troubleshooting, but Sarath and the Kona owner group members discouraged it. The damage could have been worse if I had done that. But upon driving to my workplace after this, I felt as if there was a very faint, whistling kind of noise that came on when I was accelerating or decelerating. Kind of like the sound we get when the brake pads are wearing off, but much subtler. I was not sure whether this noise was there initially. Nevertheless, decided to get it checked from Popular Hyundai. Took a half day off from work and drove to the Popular Hyundai service centre. Mr Vikas, who was the service head for Kona, agreed to take a look. I was a bit worried about my 2 week old car, that too my first EV to face such an issue. This was when I received a call from Mr Rajan, who was a senior member of the Kona owner's group. He reassured me and personally called up Vikas to get things sorted. I was a bit apprehensive initially about the service center as my car was not bought from their dealership, and also that day being the weekend before Christmas, the rush inside the service area was rather huge. Lucky for me, the support offered by Mr Vikas and Mr Rajan was good. All 4 wheels were removed, brake discs were inspected and cleaned. Vikas also took the car for a short drive to listen to the whistling noise that I had mentioned. He said this could probably be due to brake dust seeping into the discs, and is not a cause of worry. There was no other issue that they could find. Upon getting the green signal, I was relieved and took the car back. The faint, whistling sound is still present though. I guess I shouldn't be too bothered about it. Registration formalities Quote:
Efficiency For the past month, I was not exactly focussing on extracting efficiency numbers from the Kona. But with liberal use of the paddles, I can get around 8.5 - 9 km/kwh from this motor. My best is 10.5 km/kwh. I have also noticed that while idling, the numbers do come down to around 6 km/kwh. If the idling periods are longer, it can go down till 5. Wonder why it is so. If we are not using the motor, the efficiency shouldn't drop right? Or am I missing something? I also did a 50 kw charging just for the sake of it and noticed that the DTE is lower with DC charging. Juice up the car to 100% overnight and DTE with AC on is 350 kms and AC off is 382 kms Cradle on the move This is in fact the best use-case scenario of my Kona. I have a 3-year-old daughter and a one-year-old son, and at times like other kids they get grumpy. The best way to deal with them? Take both of them along on some short trips in the Kona. The looks on their faces when I seat them inside the car are just priceless. All this without the guilt of burning fuel or a hole in the pocket! Last edited by GKR9900 : 8th January 2024 at 14:43. | |
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