[Rajeevraj]

Interesting approach by MG. For what the car offers, it is very good launch price even with the BaaS model. For folks who are thinking about how to ensure that the customer pays, I think it is fairly certain that you have to 'buy' kilometers in advance. Just like any Software Service we buy today- Internet, OTT, or any other subscriptions. You pay in advance for a set duration and if you do not renew, you no longer get the services.

Only thing that remains to be seen is how many 'kilometers' a customer is forced to buy upfront. Will MG be willing to do a yearly model or they will do a 3 year validity model with a baseline minimum kilometers that have to be purchased. Once the kilometers or the time validity is up, it should be a simple affair to disable the car and prevent it from starting or unlocking.

[narayans80]

Here's my personal take on the Windsor following various videos pre-launch and the launch itself.

• Launch pricing is impressive. And I see Excite as the variant for me. So that would put a 11.5 L on road thereabouts without the BaaS
• BaaS is 3.5 Rs/km and add 1-1.5 Rs/km of charging costs. Am looking at a 5 Rs/km running cost without maintenance. I drive an Alcazar diesel who fuel costs average 5.1 Rs/km over its lifetime.
• I don't need to care about battery costs, which is a common concern.
• Tata hasn't inspired confidence in the prospective customer inside me. BYD and Citroen are too small a footprint to inspire confidence and BYD has an uncertain future. Prior to this launch, I had MG's ZS EV as the only viable option, whose Excite variant should be about 22-23 L onroad.
• Am looking to use this for city and sub-200 km runs at the most. Not really looking at big highway runs with this. I have the diesel Alcazar for that.
• The car size is pretty much like my former S-Cross, which I paid 12.48L, nearly 6 years back. So 11.5 L on road sounds like a good deal to me.
• Still need to read all their fine print. On a top level, I see it as a good deal even with the BaaS.

How this BaaS works still remains to be seen. There was mention of EMI in the launch. Not sure this is going to be a monthly usage based (like postpaid mobile) or standard packages.

[handsofsteel]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Interesting approach by MG. For what the car offers, it is very good launch price even with the BaaS model. For folks who are thinking about how to ensure that the customer pays, I think it is fairly certain that you have to 'buy' kilometers in advance. Just like any Software Service we buy today- Internet, OTT, or any other subscriptions. You pay in advance for a set duration and if you do not renew, you no longer get the services.

Only thing that remains to be seen is how many 'kilometers' a customer is forced to buy upfront. Will MG be willing to do a yearly model or they will do a 3 year validity model with a baseline minimum kilometers that have to be purchased. Once the kilometers or the time validity is up, it should be a simple affair to disable the car and prevent it from starting or unlocking.

An overlooked component here is resale. Safe to say this vehicle (even amongst the EVs) will be a resale disaster. After all who would want to buy a vehicle without battery warranty, having to subscribe to use the battery etc. In today's day and age, why would I even go through the fine print. Thanks MG, I'd rather wait for other options or go to the competitors. And that's a pity because I, for one, thought the vehicle had several USPs which it could have leveraged competently.

[DHARM]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

An overlooked component here is resale. Safe to say this vehicle (even amongst the EVs) will be a resale disaster. After all who would want to buy a vehicle without battery warranty, having to subscribe to use the battery etc. In today's day and age, why would I even go through the fine print. Thanks MG, I'd rather wait for other options or go to the competitors. And that's a pity because I, for one, thought the vehicle had several USPs which it could have leveraged competently.

Your depreciation is fixed 40% for three years so will be forced to sell the car back to them and buy a new one, you cant sell this car out side at more than 60% considering no battery warranty so you are stuck to sell at 3 years. if someone want to sell before 3 years too will attract 40% depreciation value. Unless more clarity emerges to keep the car over 3 years. someone driving more than xx-xxx KM per day wont have advantage buying as cost of usage will be pegged at over Rs.6/km

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

An overlooked component here is resale. Safe to say this vehicle (even amongst the EVs) will be a resale disaster. After all who would want to buy a vehicle without battery warranty, having to subscribe to use the battery etc. In today's day and age, why would I even go through the fine print. Thanks MG, I'd rather wait for other options or go to the competitors. And that's a pity because I, for one, thought the vehicle had several USPs which it could have leveraged competently.

Resale has not been overlooked by MG. They are promising a buyback after 3 years at 60% which is a good guarantee to have considering in general EV's have disastrous resale value. Maybe 40% depreciation over 3 years is a bit too much, but that would be a price to pay for a guaranteed buy back. I assume after 3 years they may bring an option to extend for say 2 or 3 more years.

Of course, people who want to sell after 1 or 2 years will be stuck, but those would be corner cases and special situations.

[mariner80]

One advantage I can see is not having to pay 17% road tax on battery cost (assuming they price it away from ex-sh). The disadvantage would be GST on per km charge, uncertainty if they hike the per km charge (not sure why they would do that, since battery is one time cost at production, for which they already calculated a flat 3.5 per km).

What happens if the battery cost increases/decreases after 5 years? will that charge change for existing owners, or new customers only? And would the battery will be technically owned by MG? If yes, then no salvage value for the vehicle owner. This makes the lifetime warranty of battery a gimmick.
Also, I doubt we will be able to insure the battery separately. Personally not a fan of subscriptions or loans. Prefer to own them outright.

[volkman10]

Why complicate things. just to show a low sticker price?

The Cloud will not sell in numbers as customers will still be paying for kms over its lifetime, which is a very bad idea.

[thomahawk]

Interesting indeed. MG is probably going to have a calculator available in their digital displays next to the car to let potential customers do the math.

To me 'you are driving this for free' (if one has invested in solar and paid EV premium) is a huge selling point for an EV. Also not sure how the whole subscription fee will pan out. Bank loans, leases, insurance all gets tricky - doesn't it? There is lot of fine print - I'm pretty sure that itself will keep lot of people away.

I think a Nexon (with discounts) makes more sense. You anyway get 1.6L km paid up for 8 years. And after that the battery is yours to keep (and if Tata sticks to their word - cell replacements/battery refurbishments done regionally, will bring the battery maintenance cost post warranty manageable?).

Also wondering if this car has to be connected to their server periodically? I believe MG currently gives away 3 years of their connected car subscription for free - what about Windsor? Lifetime free? Can someone jailbreak this?

[Rahulbarik]

Originally Posted by DHARM

Your depreciation is fixed 40% for three years so will be forced to sell the car back to them and buy a new one, you cant sell this car out side at more than 60% considering no battery warranty so you are stuck to sell at 3 years. if someone want to sell before 3 years too will attract 40% depreciation value. Unless more clarity emerges to keep the car over 3 years. someone driving more than xx-xxx KM per day wont have advantage buying as cost of usage will be pegged at over Rs.6/km

Battery warranty will change to standard 8 years / 160000 kms for 2nd owner as per brochure. Unlimited warranty only for 1st owner

[mukeshannamalai]

Which market they are trying to address here, this car is more suitable for City with this range of 331 certified and expect real world 280 per charge and this is nowhere good for long highway drive unless the charging points are available and working everywhere. with this size how this is good even for city.

This may be cheaper to run, e.g someone driving 40km per day will end up paying 4K max per month as rental for battery vs 8-10K for ICE vehicles but this cannot replace one primary vehicle. i hope this gets bigger battery to get 450+ KMS.

I drive comet EV and this gives me 180 per charge, i don't think this can replace my Comet due to its size, Windsor may be a real good for comfort than Comet but Comet is just perfect size for city commute and parking.

[msumitn]

https://youtu.be/W2_2QCLknSo?si=8kZQkI0mZ37kuFvd

here in this youtube video its being said that for owning the battery for lifetime the base variant is gonna cost 15 Lacs ex-sh!

[tazmaan]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

This is also a good option for those with low usage. Pay as you go model is something which could work for EVs.

I agree with this. My Jazz had done 60000 kms in 9 years as a city only car which is driven by a driver. With the subscription model, lower upfront cost and rear seat comfort I am sold!

[rkv_hunter]

Originally Posted by handsofsteel

An overlooked component here is resale. Safe to say this vehicle (even amongst the EVs) will be a resale disaster. After all who would want to buy a vehicle without battery warranty, having to subscribe to use the battery etc. In today's day and age, why would I even go through the fine print. Thanks MG, I'd rather wait for other options or go to the competitors. And that's a pity because I, for one, thought the vehicle had several USPs which it could have leveraged competently.

It is not like the battery warranty is void on resale, for 1st owner it is lifetime, for second owner it is 8 years/1.6 lac km.

On second thoughts the battery as a service can be a boon to people who drive less than 10k kms per year and are not going for EVs as they feel they would not be able to break even on the additional costs.

Only point which is an anticlimax is that they should have offered the extended range battery as well, which I guess they might bring as a non battery rental model later.

This has the potential to be the best selling EV in the Indian market.

[SmartCat]

I think we should stop comparing the running costs per km of Windsor EV with that of petrol or diesel car. The premium you pay for EV car is so high that petrol or diesel will always be more economical per km, if we calculate using Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) method. So you buy an EV car for something else (acceleration, zero pollution, convenience of fueling at home etc) other than saving money.

Once that is set aside, you have to now compare Windsor EV with that of its peers in EV world. You get a bigger car for smaller initial outlow from your pocket. This is such a good deal for the customer that I suspect MG will lose huge amounts per car sold.

Remember that MG is paying the battery maker in advance for every car sold. Since MG does not have unlimited money and customer is not paying for the battery, MG has to borrow from banks to fund the batteries cost, especially if MG Windsor becomes a massive success . Note that MG is recovering that cost of (battery + interest cost) only partly from the customer over multiple years.

In a way, this move by MG is an anti-competitive move (selling a car below its manufacturing price to gain marketshare). If MG Windsor results in sales drop for Tata/Mahindra, I expect them to knock on the doors of Competition Commission of India - because this model is impossible to sustain financially at this cost per km rates.

[digitalnirvana]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but is it beneficial to own this for someone (me) who has say 35-40km a day of city usage (plus adding say 30km per week for the first year to use free MG charging) versus buying outright the Punch.ev or even the Nexon.ev?

I'm really struggling with the maths.

I'll keep the car for 7-8 years i.e. close to the warranty. I do not have a charging option at home so will use overnight slow charging 15A at a family members garage (and pay them for electricity cost) or use fast charging. MG free charging has confused things a bit more.