[sleepyhead148]

Anyone knows how the new PM E-drive scheme would be beneficial or adversary for the Windsor and BaaS models in general? An outright purchase (via loan or otherwise) with subsidies/registration benefits looks like the way forward.

[TopLiveCentre]

Tata Nexon is down 3 lakh already. This shows they were fleecing us all this while. All the calculations made above are proven wrong and made on wrong figures. We have all been taken for a ride on some of the safest cars in India. Pollution, environment, new technology.... My foot. Let's make a killing when there is a chance.

[qaqa]

Ok I can understand the anxiety around the BaaS scheme. MG clearly jumped the gun on announcing it before details were worked out. I'm sure in some time the fine print will be out. Let's wait till then.

With BaaS out of the way, let's talk about the car. The more I research it the more I come back impressed. The interior room for the car's size is unbelievable. Forget the Punch, the space is seemingly comparable to my Tucson! Floor height seems to be normal unlike the Tatas. I'm sure overall quality, niggles and service experience will be far superior to Tata. With an EV, power and pickup should be decent if not exciting. All in all, a much better pick than any existing car in the price range for city usage especially if being chauffeured ! Compared to Windsor, the closest comparable i.e. Punch looks downright pedestrian in all parameters.

As far as running cost is concerned, my benchmarks are my current rides - Ecosport AT which is Rs16 per km and Tucson at Rs 10 per km in Bangalore traffic. I think whatever be the BaaS pricing, I will be in the green compared to my current costs.

I'm really keen on Windsor now!

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

As sweet as it sounds, that wont happen with such a low price of 2.99 lakh Rupees. Other EV manufacturers would be knocking CCI's doors then and it would openly expose Chinese government's investments in SAIC MG as the company manages to stay afloat despite losses

Hi, is we go by your assumptions, then why can't other manufacturers knock the doors of CCI for Windsor EV 9.99 lacs price, whereas other SUV, MUV or Crossover of Windsor size is selling for 14 lacs to 20 lacs ex showroom.

Although I find BAAS as not a very good idea or move from consumer point of view, but if BAAS is accepted by even little number of buyers, then probably Comet will also be introduced with BAAS.

[harry10]

https://youtu.be/8w60mcuzdDM?si=uNiGy94aDbOm1UHg

He does a decent job of explaining base model Windsor comparison with base model Creta. Should have included GST in calculations too.

[ALTIMAed]

Originally Posted by hajaar

Lots of people were bashing the comet when it was introduced and now it is doing reasonably well. I predict the same for the Windsor. I think it looks like it will be great vehicle for its niche audience, just like the comet. It will not be a jack of all trades like 99% of the audience here want, from every car.

Having owned a Comet since 11th November 2023, done 23,958 kms till date, guess this is a sufficient number of kms to understand the car. Keeping my usage in mind, I am pretty happy with my investment. Yes, its my primary car. Have done just one long distance trip from Gurgaon to Ajmer and back. A lot of people, known and unknown tried to convince me, I was making a 'blunder by choice', these were the comment pre and post purchase. Pre purchase thoughts, it did tick all my usage boxed, yes I did take a risk (calculated though), since it was my first EV. My intention was and is to keep it as long as I can. EMI and cost of petrol, for me was unaffordable. If not for the Comet, I would have been confined to travel to office using Uber Shuttle bus. My line of work, entails me to be at office on Saturdays and Sundays. Uber Shuttle has limited service on Saturdays and Sundays they do not operate, leaving me the only option to book a cab. I made a rough calculation, wherein the EMI was working out cheaper than (Uber Shuttle + Cab) over a month.

Windsor - has got us derailed from the Windsor to the calculator. As far as I have understood the concept, there is a 'buying option' for all kind of customers, be it outright purchase, finance from ones preferred banker and BaaS (from 4 financiers as mentioned). Yes once has to go through the fine print and wait till the 3rd for the battery price (MG would be the first to announce this, as on date, none of the manufacturers have announced the battery cost, the public perception being it is half the cost of the car), which once is done, shall clear a lot of doubts. The Windsor is like 'concept selling', wherein the sales force at the showroom would have to understand the customer's needs and requirements and suggest accordingly. Also a customer would need to take a decision based on his / her usage pattern.

Originally Posted by Dabhi73

I think we have to keep this in mind. There is no clarity on data storage , how are they going to store , what data they will keep. Whether the data will be stored in India or it will be somewhere else.

The same came to my mind when I was on the buying mode of my Comet. I was assured the data is stored in India. Today, data capturing and storage has become quite common across the automobile industry.

[psbali]

Going over all the discussion over here and having participated actively I still maintain that we buy EVs for low running costs.

Going into economics of it, BaaS takes away that aspect of low running costs.

With 331 kms range this is a strictly city car. Next time you head out just check how many people are driving cars with 2 people or more. Most cars are being used to ferry one single person. During work hours surely one doesn't plan an outing with family.

So if I have to pay ice level costs to bear ev specific charging hassles to only drive without flexibility then this car is not meant for me.

We have only 2 serious companies at the moment in EV space. TM and MG.

Tata Motors have their niggles popping up with such frequency that doesn't let short lived public memory fade at all. I suspect that they have started to enjoy the bad publicity.

MG the only brand to consider finally comes out with a decent range to choose from, only to have them botch up a car launch. I am sorry but too much hassle for a car with 38 kw battery.

Big car, Big seats, next segment car at hatchback prices while I am only concerned with the driving seat. I would request MG to excuse with the argument and logics of low entry costs and provide me a car that I can fully own.

Next what? Wipers as a service? One swipe charged at 5 paise? Wipers are used only during monsoon and rest of the times they are a dead asset. Headlight as a service? Why pay for something that one uses only at night?

Summing up only when a family travels can one make a case for Big seats, good leg room, big car at small.car price. With 38kw you can only do short trips and how many of those does one take? Rest of the times it would a single person car which is almost 98% for 99% of owners.

I simply REJECT the premise of paying up for using a critical part of my car.

Take those shenanigans to cars costing 50 lacs and above in schengen countries and north america.

[aweracker]

The subscription model is very unclear, but I hope for the best here even then.

Apart from that if the car matches Nexon's prices of 17.5 L on the road with a battery, I think this a very well-made car.

The quality inside is setting a new standard for me in this range. It has:

- a larger wheelbase than Creta and a much better backseat, I mean look at the recline.
- Ambient lighting that's not just for the brochure. I mean it makes the car feel inviting and upmarket.
- Must have features at this price - auto lights, auto wipers, ventilated seats, well-laid front console.
- That rear seat, man that's gonna make Hyundai think what to do now.
- A good audio system - 4 tweeters, 4 mid-speakers, and a woofer. I guess for this range that's the most one can do.
- 360 deg camera
- 15 inch screen, that's pretty good considering you can use it while charging to play media. Hoping that people can load on NF or Prime via Jio partnership while charging

ADAS isn't there but I am okay at this price point. Only thing I am salty about is the range. This range means I can't do longer road trips without at least 2 stops.

[Delta Wing]

MG are trying the XaaS model successfully forced on consumers by big tech. Or look at the streaming business growth. How to generate more revenue from the same customer for the same product in a b2c model? Make it a part owership and part subscription. Remember when you could remove and replace the battery of your phone? Remember when you could store your data in sd cards and swap when it was full? Now you can do neither. Phone is 3 years old, pay for an expensive battery or buy the latest flagship. Need storage? Buy the storage on cloud. Want videos to play without ads? Buy premium subscription. The crux is this - companies are selling increasingly partial products over the last decade and turning the completeness factor into add ons or subscriptions for more 'recurring' money which will be in their control. And they lie brazenly that they are not giving you chargers to save the carbon footprint etc. Will any company do it for the customer's benefit or their own profit maximization? Take a guess.

Coming to the Windsor - 3.5 rs/km for min 1500 km pm is a scam. Noone is going to exact match the km for the month. You will always keep min 50-100 or 200 km in balance by 30th, which vanishes in thin air. So it is more like 3.8 rs per km min. It gets more expensive as your usage drops. The payout is 7 rs/km for someone who drives 750 km pm or 25 km per day. The worst is the penalty on high mileage users. Typically the electric car ownership is more economical for higher usage. Here the costs are fixed. My guess is that there will be tiered plans for usage varying around the 1500 pm number, both sides progressively more expensive.

Linking XaaS to BaaS - How to monetise the usage of the car after selling it is done through rental - they are calling it rental, financiers are calling it lease. In effect, they are selling you a partial car, and forcing you to loan the battery. Ask yourself this - why are marquee names among the indian automotive lenders not in the 'partners' list here? There is some predatory aspect lurking somewhere in the fine print, and may even invite regulatory risk from multiple sides. When i buy a car from any other OEM, i am free to finance it or not, or finance from my preferred lender. If anyone forces me to buy a loan from an NBFC, i will walk away, even if i love the car. Let us not even start about the hypothecation process for this car. Who allows two loans on a single car? In short, there is a minimum loan guarantee equal to battery value to the financier from MG for each customer, and above that if someone wants additional finance. All talk of 3.5 rs/km aside, if you are locked in a loan of, say 8L, over and above battery, what will you do if they jack up the interest on that?

So who is the target customer here? Probably someone who wants to buy a car with 2-3 L down paymemt, and an EMI that they can manage, which means a car worth about 12-13L total. With this scheme, this person can be upsold a more expensive car than they need. The financier gets a captive audience and MG gets to tap into the extremely aggressive marketing of a Bajaj Finance.

Another strategic reason for this type of pay as you go models is the reduction in the upgrade cycle time. Just think how many phones or TVs you bought in the last 10 years vs the 10 years before that, and how much you pay for tech from your income. One can argue that technological innovation will stagnate if old products are not replaced by the new, but this is no new technology being marketed, it is the virus of debt being inserted deeper into the automotive ownership experience. We will start having sob stories on tbhp in a few months about the nightmares of loaning a battery inside a car you own. Or do you?

P.S. - At one time in 2009, i was crazy about the Fiat Linea T Jet. Didn't buy. Went to buy the Ford Fiesta the next year, didn't buy. Reason - poor customer service. Today, both these companies are gone from India despite one stellar product after another. How the Windsor is as a car is never a consideration if MG tries to sell debt in fancy garbs of BaaS or rental, serviced forcibly through companies one need not be forced to deal with.

[ALTIMAed]

Originally Posted by anandhsub

Bajaj Finserv says you cannot drive your car for more than 1500kms in a month even if you are ready to pay for it

You can drive your car for more than 1500 kms, but you shall not be paying anything extra, for the additional kms traversed.

[SanSabh]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

MG are trying ...
...

Linking XaaS to BaaS - How to monetise the usage of the car after selling it is done through rental - they are calling it rental, financiers are calling it lease. In effect, they are selling you a partial car, and forcing you to loan the battery. Ask yourself this - why are marquee names among the indian automotive lenders not in the 'partners' list here? There is some predatory aspect lurking somewhere in the fine print, and may even invite regulatory risk from multiple sides. When i buy a car from any other OEM, i am free to finance it or not, or finance from my preferred lender. If anyone forces me to buy a loan from an NBFC, i will walk away, even if i love the car. Let us not even start about the hypothecation process for this car. Who allows two loans on a single car? In short, there is a minimum loan guarantee equal to battery value to the financier from MG for each customer, and above that if someone wants additional finance. All talk of 3.5 rs/km aside, if you are locked in a loan of, say 8L, over and above battery, what will you do if they jack up the interest on that?

So who is the target customer here? Probably someone who wants to buy a car with 2-3 L down paymemt, and an EMI that they can manage, which means a car worth about 12-13L total. With this scheme, this person can be upsold a more expensive car than they need. The financier gets a captive audience and MG gets to tap into the extremely aggressive marketing of a Bajaj Finance.

Another strategic reason for this type of pay as you go models is the reduction in the upgrade cycle time. Just think how many phones or TVs you bought in the last 10 years vs the 10 years before that, and how much you pay for tech from your income. One can argue that technological innovation will stagnate if old products are not replaced by the new, but this is no new technology being marketed, it is the virus of debt being inserted deeper into the automotive ownership experience. We will start having sob stories on tbhp in a few months about the nightmares of loaning a battery inside a car you own. Or do you?

P.S. - At one time in 2009, i was crazy about the Fiat Linea T Jet. Didn't buy. Went to buy the Ford Fiesta the next year, didn't buy. Reason - poor customer service. Today, both these companies are gone from India despite one stellar product after another. How the Windsor is as a car is never a consideration if MG tries to sell debt in fancy garbs of BaaS or rental, serviced forcibly through companies one need not be forced to deal with.

Seems to me this model works best for fleet operators, not individuals
Individuals might be more comfortable with outright ownership, unless they are heavy users

[SmartCat]

Looking at the confusion, I think MG made a couple of mistakes here.

- Advertising BaaS charges on per km basis
- Having a single tier kilometer limit.
- Involving finance companies in the deal & letting them deal with customers

Instead, MG should have offered 2 or 3 tiers based on kilometer usage. For eg:

< 1000 km/month for Rs. 5,000 per month
< 1500 km/month for Rs. 6,000 per month
< 2000 km/month for Rs. 7,000 per month

Charge Rs. X per km for excess over the limit each month.

When we hire a car from Zoomcar for 3 months, we don't think of it as a loan. But since here, a third party finance company is involved, customer starts thinking of BaaS as a loan. Instead, MG could've been the face of BaaS, giving the impression to customers that they are dealing with MG directly. But they could have hired a clutch of finance companies to do all the back-end work.

LivePure does it right with their Water Purifier as a service scheme. Seedhi Baat, No Bakwaas plans:

[aashishnb]

Taking BAAS out of the equation,

Can anyone give their views on Windsor vs ZS EV / Windsor vs something from BYD (is Atto3 comparable) Windsor vs Nexon?
Like is it Nexon category or ZS/Atto3 category or Punch category?
Also, any views on when M&M is launching their new EV?


As a vehicle, this should / could be the first step and financing aspects, since not yet clear, we'll cross the bridge when we come to it.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by TopLiveCentre

Tata Nexon is down 3 lakh already. This shows they were fleecing us all this while. All the calculations made above are proven wrong and made on wrong figures. We have all been taken for a ride on some of the safest cars in India. Pollution, environment, new technology.... My foot. Let's make a killing when there is a chance.

All companies always try to keep the highest possible profit margin. However, it wasn't necessarily fleecing. Initially, the costs were higher due to set up, a smaller number of vendors and higher battery prices. Now, the battery prices have fallen, they have started their own assembly to some extent and, they have found cheaper vendors as the volumes got higher.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by aashishnb

Can anyone give their views on Windsor vs ZS EV / Windsor vs something from BYD (is Atto3 comparable) Windsor vs Nexon?
Like is it Nexon category or ZS/Atto3 category or Punch category?
Also, any views on when M&M is launching their new EV?

BHPian antz.bin has already nicely summarized Windsor USP in post# 5841924 (MG Cloud spotted testing in India. EDIT: Named Windsor).

Windsor is a car that costs as much as Punch.ev LR or Nexon.ev LR, has exterior dimensions of ZS and offers much more space than Atto3.

The cab-forward design may not be to everyone's liking but it is a car where function beats form!

If anyone is looking for a chauffer-driven car for city use, then Windsor should be high on the list. It can also do intercity drives to nearby towns (200-250 km roundtrip) without a charge. It can't be a frequent highway car but if MG decides to offer 50 kwh battery in the future, it can be as good highway car (range-wise) as Currv, ZS and Atto3 base variant.