[Phantom 510]

Nothing beats the i20 in terms of long list of features, feel good factor, superior fit/ finish, solid reliability, Hyundai's very strong after sales service and low service costs. It's merits outweigh the pricey price tag for a hatch admirably well IMHO.

[stringbh]

Originally Posted by tirumalavoleti

Little off the current suggestions, Taigun with 1L TSI is a unique car which satisfies hatch and SUV. Neither too small nor too big.

It doesn't fit the budget of 10L and you pay minimum 14L (Ex-showroom) for starting AT model for Taigun or Kushaq. There is a real problem of getting a good smooth AT hatch in the current market.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

If you are looking for an ICE car that would be reliable over a decade, do not buy a diesel, and do not buy a 1.0L turbo petrol.

Probably OT: Can you please elaborate what you mean here? as some of us are driving diesel vehicles without any problems for last (almost) 10 years.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by stringbh

Probably OT: Can you please elaborate what you mean here? as some of us are driving diesel vehicles without any problems for last (almost) 10 years.

I should have mentioned BS6 diesel vehicles. Older diesels are far more durable than the newer ones, though no diesel likes being driven sedately for short distances - since the OP mentioned...

occasional work related travel, school drops, market runs etc within the city.

And 1.0L turbo petrols have a much shorter service life than, say, a 1.2/1.5L NA petrol engine in the same car.

[vigneshkumar31]

Thanks for great insights friends.

The battle seems to narrow between the Altroz and i20.

Today I suggested to the good lady that we check out Tata showroom first because I know the guys there and do visit showroom and workshop often. Oops. This worked against me.

I was quickly retaliated with a long, suggestive look at my Safari and remarked that she rather not be too familiar with the sales and service guys of the next car.

I tried to convince that new Tata is a different story but in vain. Better sense prevailed and kept Altroz for later.

Reminder of what an uphill battle Tata has ahead of it , despite having world class products in their arsenal just because of historic burden of QC issues and some lackadaisical A.S.S (both of which over the years my wife has witnessed me grumbling about).

Took wife to the Hyundai showroom. Started optimistically with the i10 Grand Nios which she felt was a tad small,( one size too small is what I was told.) So uneventfully moved over to Check out the i20 and she was all gaga about it. Apparently her friend has bought the same recently and has assured her it’s ‘sporty’.

Have requested for test drive. SA said however waiting period is a couple of months. is it true pan India?

Will keep you guys updated on how other visits and TDs go.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

It isn't clear where you want to use the car, though your location shows Port Blair.
.

Valid point. Location keeps changing because of work. Mostly Tier 1/2 cities. Both Hyundai and Tata presence is generally not an issue. VW maybe an issue at some places

[rpm]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

The battle seems to narrow between the Altroz and i20.

Please do take this as a suggestion and nothing more, but if it would be possible for you to spend some credit on Hyundai’s website, it would be interesting to see the body weld diagrams for the new i20 and compare it with the i20 sold abroad. A similar exercise (Are Indian Hyundais different from developed market Hyundais? If so, how?) was carried out by BHPian RSR some time ago; might be of interest to you. Now, this wouldn’t conclusively answer what the safety rating of the Indian i20 would be per se, but it would be interesting to see the similarities/differences (if any). Alternatively, if you could nudge the Hyundai dealership into letting you take a peek at the workshop repair manual, that could work too [since they also (probably) contain the body weld diagrams].

Hyundai India is in a bit of a grey area since you mentioned good safety track record. Their best showing at GNCAP’s #SaferCarsForIndia has been a 2-star. Their overall best at GNCAP so far has been the made-in-India but sold in Africa i20 (previous gen) which managed a 3-star rating. I don’t know for sure if the result of the African i20 (previous gen) can be extended to the Indian variant (previous gen), but in case they had the same equipment levels, generally similar performance can be expected and structural differences have not been observed (thanks to BHPian ron178 for confirming this with Alejandro Furas).

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Primary Requirement:
A small compact hatch which is feature rich and offers modern creature comforts for city duties.

Checklist. Classified as Vital -Essential -Desirable.

Vital.

Safe car.- Good safety track record. While absolute perfect 5 GNCAP stars may not be vital, we would like to steer away from zero star tin cans with known crumple tendencies.

Good build - This segment no more belongs exclusively to budget players. Some good solid cars have entered the ring making it exciting .

Well built small cars are a rare commodity, especially when the good old Ecosport has been discontinued. The way I see it, your options are limited to the Altroz, Magnite and Kiger. If you can spend on the top end Kiger turbo CVT, that should be your first choice. Otherwise, I’d suggest you wait a bit. Tata’s new wet clutch DSG is a just a few months away from launch and is something I believe is worth waiting for. Altroz or Punch with a proper automatic will be just about perfect city cars. Both these cars have very good suspensions and are the closest you’ll get to the European driving experience you seek.

Will not suggest Hyundai cars if safety is a priority. Their track record in this area is as bad as Maruti and no amount of features can hide that.

Don’t go down the clutch gear route. With traffic being what it is, it’s just an unnecessary pain. The old Celerio AMT was a horrible specimen for automatics. I am sure your wife will get the hang of it in no time when she gets behind a good AT. Automatics are just about perfect for dense city traffic and there is no going back to manuals once you get used to the convenience.

[vigneshkumar31]

The wife has now changed preference to (any sort of) automatic and is willing to adapt to the future realising the benefits in the traffic which would be the hatch’s natural habitat.

What’s the review on iMT? Best of both, or, Neither here nor there?

[colcol]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

The wife has now changed preference to (any sort of) automatic and is willing to adapt to the future realising the benefits in the traffic which would be the hatch’s natural habitat.

What’s the review on iMT? Best of both, or, Neither here nor there?

I have driven the i20 iMT and found it extremely disconcerting. Half the time I was searching for the clutch and the other half I was annoyed that the car hadn't shifted gears automatically.

Given your new requirements, I would vote for Jazz VX CVT. If the preference were for a manual, I would have suggested the Altroz. Some people have suggested the S-Cross and I agree it is a great car. However, it is not exactly compact and will also be over 10L if you want to go for the automatic.

[Tony2298]

Respected sir,In my humble opinion you shall look at the Volkswagen Polo 1.0TSi if available.Even though it's long in the tooth and may lack some new-age gizmos the engineering finesse, driving pleasure and overall solid experience of owning a German car is what only few other cars might come close to match, also not to forget that it's well keeping in line with the requirements of you and your wife, it's small and cute for chucking traffic has that powerful award-winning TSi engine and a fast+smooth+reliable Aisin sourced 6speed Torque converter automatic transmission, also Polo even though more than a decade old still looks very nice especially in red colour with 16" alloy wheels. Definitely worth consideration.
Else I would suggest you to go for Hyundai i20 CVT, it's modern, comfortable is loaded to the gills with tech and gizmos and is backed by Hyundai's vast sales+service network. Happy shopping ahead 😃

[ron178]

Originally Posted by rpm

Now, this wouldn’t conclusively answer what the safety rating of the Indian i20 would be per se, but it would be interesting to see the similarities/differences (if any).

Well, it's not exactly the best idea - even with similar steels there can be differences in performance, for a lot of reasons. The most obvious of them would be engine intrusion for different engines and excessive pedal displacement for which the specific market car will have to be separately engineered.

What's not so obvious is differences in the quality of welds - and there's absolutely no way to figure out without access to solid crash test intrusion measurements, or otherwise by stripping the car (even then it's only possible to check for density and not strength). And that would obviously upset the Hyundai dealer here. Spot-welding is a time-consuming and expensive process, and manufacturers often use lower quality welds for certain markets - either less dense welds or less time or discharge voltage. A release of spot welds, either intentional to save cost/time or due to poor production control can lead to intrusion, or even rupture of footwell seams (look at this interesting test for example).

About the BIW diagrams - they're certainly a very interesting read. But we still don't know for sure whether they explain the differences in crash test performance, though in some cases it's very likely. All cases of different BIW parts have led to differences in crash test results too - but we can't say at all that having the same body-in-white will lead to similar crash test results, not least because of the right hand-drive nature of our market. That said, diagrams for the i20 would certainly be interesting to see. The closest I could get is a very vague diagram of the related European Hyundai Bayon in the Euro Rescue app.


Between the Tata Altroz and the Hyundai i20 - personally I would think it's a tough choice. The Altroz has a 2020 five star Global NCAP crash test rating - and hence is also confirmed to meet UN regulation for side impact which is something I would personally consider quite valuable. The i20 on the other hand doesn't have a crash test rating yet, but what might swing things in its favour are optional side torso airbags, side head protection, and very importantly, ESC. You're leaning towards a 'safe' car, and while there is no such thing, either of these (a crash test rating or ESC+head protection) will definitely help you make a safer choice. It's really up to you to decide which one you'd consider more important.

If you could, I would suggest that you wait if you're considering the Altroz. While there's absolutely no guarantee of this, and it's purely speculation on my part, there is a small chance you might see Tata equip more of its fleet with ESC and/or side head protection airbags in order to meet the updated mid-2022 Global NCAP protocol. So in that case you'd probably be getting the best of both worlds.

I would normally suggest the Volkswagen Polo too, but I'm not even sure if it's still in production, and nevertheless it's widely regarded that it violates this point:

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Features- We hold cars for long . Future proof features which would help us hold the car longer and not go out of date in 3 years are vital.

Also, I know you're open to a manual gearshift, but since this will primarily be a city car, I would strongly suggest an automatic gearbox. I don't think you'll regret it. I've seen even the most staunch supporters of manual transmissions now swearing by automatics for city use.

[colcol]

Originally Posted by Tony2298

Respected sir,In my humble opinion you shall look at the Volkswagen Polo 1.0TSi if available.Even though it's long in the tooth and may lack some new-age gizmos the engineering finesse, driving pleasure and overall solid experience of owning a German car is what only few other cars might come close to match, also not to forget that it's well keeping in line with the requirements of you and your wife, it's small and cute for chucking traffic has that powerful award-winning TSi engine and a fast+smooth+reliable Aisin sourced 6speed Torque converter automatic transmission, also Polo even though more than a decade old still looks very nice especially in red colour with 16" alloy wheels. Definitely worth consideration.
Else I would suggest you to go for Hyundai i20 CVT, it's modern, comfortable is loaded to the gills with tech and gizmos and is backed by Hyundai's vast sales+service network. Happy shopping ahead 😃

The Polo is a great enthusiasts' car for sure, but given that the primary driver has a sedate driving style, the fact that the car will be used in city traffic and the requirement for a fuss free ownership experience, the Jazz would seem to be more suitable, in my opinion. Additionally, as others pointed out, I am not sure the Polo is even being sold anymore. The Rapid has been officially discontinued, and it seems it is a matter of time before the same happens to the Vento and Polo.

There is a lot to like about the i20, but on the safety aspect, all Hyundai cars in India are suspect. The i10 has a 2 star GNCAP rating and the Seltos, Creta's sister car, barely managed 3 stars, when international versions of the same car have been awarded 5 stars.

[Tony2298]

Originally Posted by colcol

The Polo is a great enthusiasts' car for sure, but given that the primary driver has a sedate driving style, the fact that the car will be used in city traffic and the requirement for a fuss free ownership experience, the Jazz would seem to be more suitable, in my opinion. Additionally, as others pointed out, I am not sure the Polo is even being sold anymore. The Rapid has been officially discontinued, and it seems it is a matter of time before the same happens to the Vento and Polo.

There is a lot to like about the i20, but on the safety aspect, all Hyundai cars in India are suspect. The i10 has a 2 star GNCAP rating and the Seltos, Creta's sister car, barely managed 3 stars, when international versions of the same car have been awarded 5 stars.

Yes Polo is not very spacious car to say but for doing town errands its perfect and as the OP has bigger SUVs in his garage which can carry more stuff when required, also I mentioned that Polo is worth consideration only if available since it will be the last chance for us to grab that German engineered car at the cheapest price possible since we exactly don't if and when the new Polo and Fabia would come to our shores.

Honda Jazz is one of the underrated but very practical choice in that segment nonetheless. It has acres of space, decently equipped, has the reliability of Honda, also I think that the OEM provides upto 10years AnyTime warranty support, only thing working against it which is rather ironical considering it has a Honda badge on its nose is the Fun to Drive element or the lack thereof, the 1.2 i-VTEC doesn't have the same punch as other VTECs and the i-DTEC like always remains boring. Nonetheless, a very good choice

Lastly I do know about the double-standard nature of the Koreans and the structural solidity (or the lac thereof) in their Indian offerings which is why I recommended the Volkswagen in the first place 🙂 but as things stand as an overall package per se they are very hard to beat and combined with their robust 3S network they are indeed a compelling choice and if the car does remain confined in urban condition for the majority of its usage scenario and OP as mentioned uses a bigger, safer SUV for all the highway and outstation drives then their inherent safety issues can be offset, just my opinion. Thank you!

[vigneshkumar31]

The Jazz CVT seems like a good contender and seems to tick most boxes.

I guess with the requirement of an auto box, Altroz goes out and leaves the field open between

VW Polo (1.0 l TSI)
Hyundai i20 (1.0 l turbo DCT or 1.2 l iVT)
Honda Jazz (1.2 CVT)

[padmrajravi]

My vote is for the i20 IVT. Honda is not the quality king it used to be. And I don't have confidence in their long-term future in India. Polo may be pulled anytime. i20 looks great and will be reliable enough. Don't expect mileage from the Hyundai petrol though. I think the FE will be lower than Jazz.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

My vote is for the i20 IVT. Honda is not the quality king it used to be. And I don't have confidence in their long-term future in India. Polo may be pulled anytime. i20 looks great and will be reliable enough. Don't expect mileage from the Hyundai petrol though. I think the FE will be lower than Jazz.

Have you driven both variants? What would you recommend between i20 iVT 1.2 vs DCT 1.0 turbo ?