[Relativity]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If today, I had to buy a diesel Car on a budget, I would chose the Figo D again. If not on a budget, a Fabia.

Despite the 3 cylinder clatter of the Fabia?

[raajks]

Originally Posted by GTO

^ Ah yes, how could I overlook the Micra? That car has, without doubt, the best driveability amongst hatchbacks.

I've driven the 6-speed at length and found it extremely driveable within the city.

Does Micra sport a 6-Speed manual gear box?
When I checked the Nissan's site, it was referring to a 5 speed gear box.

Could you give us more details on this?

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by raajks

Could you give us more details on this?

Clearly GTO was referring to the 6-speed i20 in his post. This, however has been discontinued and now the i20 comes only with a 5-speed gearbox.

Micra has always come only with a 5-speed 'box.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Relativity

Despite the 3 cylinder clatter of the Fabia?

It has almost the same bhp & torque figures and on speeds over 120kmph+ goes like nobody's business. It appears to be so poised at speeds & this is what I look for.

It isn't as if any hatches will disappear from Fabia's sight if pushed hard.

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by sidindica

My replies given in bold.

I don't think driveability of i20 is any inferior to Multijet in Punto or Swift. Lag is there but acceptably so, even on the 5 speed variant. And midrange is simply terrific and once in turbo zone it just flies.

Outright driveability is excellent in figo though.

[chetanhanda]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

If I were to use the car more in b2b traffic, I'd go for the Figo. The Swift diesel does suffer from turbo lag, like the i-20.
.

Sounds like a fun thread..
One of my friends was also talking about this Ford Figo and I was suggesting a swift diesel..
Seems like the perfect thread for this.
Comparing it to swift diesel "performance wise"

Ford - SOHC
Swift DOHC
-->Swift has a more superior engine, intake and exhaust have their own cams for better control over the power band

Ford - 2 valves per cylinder
Swift -4 valves per cylinder
-->Swift has more superior airflow, its just a better performing engine in terms of air flow and power band.

Ford -69BHP@4000
Swift 75@4000
-->Not much but definately there is some difference, I also doubt those Ford numbers are real

Ford -160@2000
Swift 190@2000
-->Difference of 30 is quite a big number,also remember this torque is from a turbo so the powerband will be wider
I'm surprised Maruti guys didn't mention a range but just the peak

Turbo, intercooler ?
I looked at the Ford specs on their website and couldn't see any mention of a turbo,intercooler mentioned anywhere , did I miss out something ?

Hydraulic power stering
Ford : is stil using a hydraulic power steering, its going to remove another 2 bhp from the engine.
Swift : EPS ,electrically operated

Overall kerb weight
Ford : 1130 Kg
Swift Vdi : 1060 kg

Now the most interesting topic - the turbo lag on the swift..

My point of view
For the swift gear ratios are:
1st gear - 3.545
2nd gear - 1.904
3rd gear - 1.233
4th gear - 0.911
5th gear - 0.725
Final drive of 3.944
Assuming we are going with the regular 14in wheels with standard 165/80 R14 stock tyres from the factory
we get an effective diameter of 11.6 inches
I dont see the lag anywhere ? the power band and gear ratios are matched pretty well for indian conditions.
Just keeping my foot lightly on the throttle @ 2000 rpm makes me go a minimum of 8 kmh in 1st gear and within the power band
if I go to second I get 15kmh and 23kmh in 3rd. If you want more you need an electric car/locomotive which would make pwer from say 1 rpm.
Isn't this reasonable ? where is the lag ? its just 2000 rpm.
I'd understand if the torque was at 5500 rpm , it would be a pain with these gear ratios.
Even if we are at 1700 rpm there must be some torque ...say around 160 NM which what the Ford makes at its best effort from that 2 valve SOHC excuse of an engine.

If there is a turbo lag people are noticing in a diesel car with a turbo with these gear ratios and this powerband - they may be not driving it correctly, maybe they need better driving lessons .
This is not called turbo lag .. cmon guys lag for turbo to spool @ 2000 rpm is not a called turbo lag just bad driving.
And with these gear ratios its easy to stay in the power band..

I have driven it and I feel it spools up pretty fast never felt any lag at all

[HighOctane]

This is my experience in choosing Figo Titanium over Swift VDi on features wise. I am not comparing performace wise much here.

I had planned to buy swift VDi since Sep2011, the month they launched new gen swift. During May2012, I almost tried to book it as S.A informed me that he can get blue or black VDi next day itself. But my Wifey prevented me to do so after comparing with Figo tdci Titanium.

Swift VDi costs 7.32L on road in Bangalore. Figo TDCi Titanium cost 7.28L on road in Bangalore. Both almost same price. Bought Figo after convincing myself.

What I did not get choosing Figo: Sporty Drive, 7bhp less, more refined engine, Better suspensions, Best A.S.S, rear power windows, option of upgrading anything without warranty getting void(Alloys of my choice, upsize tyres, ICE with amp, woofers, 90/100 headlamps or HID)

What I got more choosing Figo: ABS, Driver/Passenger Airbags, Alloys, Great Music System with Bluetooth, Rear Defogger, Rear Wipe, Driver seat adjustable, Super Big boot, Better handling car on curves (arguably better than swift) Stable car at high speed braking, less turbo lag for easy City drive. Also got Reverse Parking Sensor with distance display, Art leather seat covers, mudflaps, floor/boot mats free from dealer(in case of Swift, we donot get even perfume as free)

I did not go for ZDi as it is 8.29L on road in Bangalore & out of my budget. Feature wise, ZDi scores over Titanium on Automatic Climate Control priced Rs.1.01L more. Titanium scores over ZDi on Bluetooth, Big boot space (swift-210ltrs, Figo-284ltrs).

Edit: This was another major factor for me to lean towards Figo:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ake-issue.html

http://www.cartoq.com/braking-proble...the-new-swift/

http://www.forbesindia.com/article/s...t-work/33388/1

[volkman10]

Pick the ZDI and it is no brainer, a more complete and refined package than the Figo!

Cheers!

[bigron]

I would personally suggest the Swift , merely on account of how it looks.Plus you can all the hassle free ownership of a Maruti. I just picked up a used 3 year old swift VDI as a beater car and the ease of ownership this thing exudes is simply brilliant.

[A350XWB]

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

Ford -69BHP@4000
Swift 75@4000
-->Not much but definately there is some difference, I also doubt those Ford numbers are real

You don't have to doubt the Ford numbers and to be precise, it is 68Bhp or 69PS for the TDCi.

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

Ford -160@2000
Swift 190@2000
-->Difference of 30 is quite a big number,also remember this torque is from a turbo so the powerband will be wider
I'm surprised Maruti guys didn't mention a range but just the peak
Turbo, intercooler ?
I looked at the Ford specs on their website and couldn't see any mention of a turbo,intercooler mentioned anywhere , did I miss out something ?

Can you please explain the highlighted sentence? You suggest that the TDCi is a NA engine or something? Then, please check your facts before making comments. And about telling it on their websites, some manufacturers like to list everything even from the four tyres, as equipment and others just don't do it. That's all.

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

Hydraulic power stering
Ford : is stil using a hydraulic power steering, its going to remove another 2 bhp from the engine.
Swift : EPS ,electrically operated

Valid point, but have you driven both extensively? Ask any enthusiast who likes to drive and they will prefer to have the linear and weighted feel of the HPS over the EPS. I have both cars in my family and the Swift's ride and handling is far better than the Swift's. (I agree that opinions differ, because some people like steering of the i20 better )

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

Now the most interesting topic - the turbo lag on the swift..

For turbo lag, you need to drive both cars in traffic. I have driven both extensively in traffic and I prefer to be in a TDCi than in the Swift in traffic. It depends on the response - the power and torque curves of the engine, how it delivers the available power and torque. The TDCi does it in a linear manner (the renault K9K is even better) and the 1.3 MJD in a spike and go manner. The new Swift has a better controlled power delivery, but nowhere close to TDCi or the K9K. Swift is fun to drive, but TDCi keeps your stress levels down in traffic.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by chetanhanda

Ford -69BHP@4000
Swift 75@4000
-->Not much but definately there is some difference, I also doubt those Ford numbers are real

Are you serious? Can a manufacturer in this day & age play & manipulate with nos.? And what makes you think so?

Hydraulic power stering
Ford : is stil using a hydraulic power steering, its going to remove another 2 bhp from the engine.
Swift : EPS ,electrically operated

Somebody, give me a gyaan on this. Does a hydraulic power steering sap exactly 2 bhp? Why not 1 or 3 bhp? Why does it have to sap power Chetan?

maybe they need better driving lessons .

Yup

This is not called turbo lag .. cmon guys lag for turbo to spool @ 2000 rpm is not a called turbo lag just bad driving.

[SPARKled]

I own both these cars,nl well not exactly, coz I have a DDIS Ritz instead of the swift. But the TDCI is way easier to drive and also pulls a lot cleanly at lower rpms. Its not really the driving style or anything that plays a part here. The TDCI is also a lot more flexible and eager at low revs. The DDIS take ages to wake up and yes, as pointed out in a earlier post is a lot more fatiguing in the city. But post 1900 rpm its a different beast all together. Where the TDCI felt a lot more eager lower down the revs, the roles are completly reversed now, with the DDIS being the more eager fellow now. Fuel efficiency is dead on with both with both being equally efficient.

Driving the figo is surely a lot better experience compared to the Ritz or the older Swift that I have driven extensively. The new one though may be better in the Zdi guise.

[vnabhi]

@chetanhanda--your contentions have already been negated by experience folks above. Rather than commenting on the driving style of others and getting mesmerized by figures, I suggest you drive both and then conclude.

There are mature members in this forum who do not get eluded with figures like bhp, p/w ratio, in-gear ratios or for that matter any other ratio, but instead choose to drive and arrive at their conclusions.

Statements like '2 value SOHC excuse of an engine by Ford' and your frantic bid to glorify Swift makes it look like you are a MSIL salesman.

I'd like to reiterate that the Swift zdi is indeed a good and sporty diesel hatch, but let down by its turbolag during bumper to bumper driving. The Figo shines in that area.

[chetanhanda]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Are you serious? Can a manufacturer in this day & age play & manipulate with nos.? And what makes you think so?

Dyno numbers - I have been around enough dynos to know that quoted factory numbers are really not that accurate - so Im pretty much sure this is not an exception.. for this Indian ford.
And waht makes you think that Ford with its 2 valve SOHC is only 6 bhp less than a swift ? why not even less ?

Originally Posted by Sheel

Somebody, give me a gyaan on this. Does a hydraulic power steering sap exactly 2 bhp? Why not 1 or 3 bhp? Why does it have to sap power Chetan?

If u know basics of hydraulic power steerings you wouldn't be asking this question so sarcastically .. so here is the gyaan - the hydraulic power steering is driven of a belt from the engine consuming some power from the crank directly. The oil pressure created by the power steering pump which provies ur assist is directly driven by engine also...minor overhead but definately something to sap some bhp from an engine.
And I said 2 bhp as a best guess - usually its 1-3 bhp..why would it be 1 or why 3 ? why not 2 as an approximate guees ??

[chetanhanda]

Originally Posted by A350XWB

You don't have to doubt the Ford numbers and to be precise, it is 68Bhp or 69PS for the TDCi.


Can you please explain the highlighted sentence? You suggest that the TDCi is a NA engine or something? Then, please check your facts before making comments. And about telling it on their websites, some manufacturers like to list everything even from the four tyres, as equipment and others just don't do it. That's all.

I think u didnt read my post correctly - I said I couldn't find any specs or details on the Ford site mentioning it had turbo with an intercooler.
I asked "did I miss out something becoz I couldn't find any specs"..
I think its pretty silly or just plain odd if a manufacturer does not list out such an important feature on the website or forgets to do so ?
It's not such minor feature that it can be considered unimportant...as forgetting to mention the car has 4 wheels as you are suggesting.

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Valid point, but have you driven both extensively? Ask any enthusiast who likes to drive and they will prefer to have the linear and weighted feel of the HPS over the EPS. I have both cars in my family and the Swift's ride and handling is far better than the Swift's. (I agree that opinions differ, because some people like steering of the i20 better )

ok ..fine- its a very subjective topic

Originally Posted by A350XWB

For turbo lag, you need to drive both cars in traffic. I have driven both extensively in traffic and I prefer to be in a TDCi than in the Swift in traffic. It depends on the response - the power and torque curves of the engine, how it delivers the available power and torque. The TDCi does it in a linear manner (the renault K9K is even better) and the 1.3 MJD in a spike and go manner. The new Swift has a better controlled power delivery, but nowhere close to TDCi or the K9K. Swift is fun to drive, but TDCi keeps your stress levels down in traffic.

I understand all the stuff about powerband and torque curves but dont understand how a heavier car with less torque and a totally "non sporty" sohc 2 valve is called more fun to drive in the same sentence.
I have driven the swift in mix of highway and traffic conditions ..it didnt feel as If I was feeling a turbo lag... I think saying power arrving at 2000 rpm cannot be called a tubo lag...if power can at 4000-5000 then it would be fair to say it has lag...
Tell me - when did u shift to 2nd gear ? what speed and what rpm ?