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-   -   Pathetic EcoSport delivery (Shreeji Ford): Low coolant levels, charging over MRP etc. (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-dealerships/142637-pathetic-ecosport-delivery-shreeji-ford-low-coolant-levels-charging-over-mrp-etc.html)

Ford EcoSport Issues & Troubleshooting - A lot of them caused by the Dealership Shreeji Ford (Thane)

Nope this is not my Ownership thread, that one is still pending and will be a much more detailed effort when I get the time for it. Nope the EcoSport does not really have multiple niggles and rattles of the kind we all have seen with SUV's / MUV's of many other brands. It sure is a good product; let's make that a very good product. Yet a combination of factors like Dealer apathy, and possibly the rush to move out as many units from the factory has resulted in a few issues (Technical and non technical).

I had prebooked the EcoSport prior to price announcement. Was communicated earlier that I would get the vehicle by Aug 12th (A date of significance to me) and then later they conveyed that this would be Sep 12, at which point I went down to the Sr. person handling booking allotments at Shreeji Ford and was informed that a Blue and a Grey AT were indeed being shipped in Aug and I should receive them in the revised time frame. Later was informed by the Junior Sales person handling my account that the I would not get the vehicle for another 2 months at least. I had to then write to ford, speak to specific individuals out there and also within the Dealership to get my vehicle which was already on the way allotted to me instead of someone else as evidently was planned by the Senior Management at the Dealership. I had based on the earlier committed (revised date) of Sep 12 already sold of my Laura AT and had a couple of months prior sold of the Aria so a further delay was not at all acceptable.

The registration process too a whole week after I had made the full payment and it was a string of goof ups even after that. I too delivery on another auspicious date and had to get registration etc. done later. But the issues still are not resolved, and they are taking my time as well as irritating me.

To kick things of am posting details of some of the other issues that I have already faced / am still facing.

1) The Official SatNav: Dealer CHARGING MORE THAN MRP:
The product has an MRP of Rs. 11,990
The product was sold to me for Rs. 14,410

MRP sticker on the Map My India SatNav VX340


Price Mentioned on the Dealer Price Book


Other Info:
This was raised to ford Western region head - But have yet not seen a resolution.
The senior gentleman in charge of accessories at Shreeji Ford SMS'ed me (have saved that sms) that they would refund the differential in pricing to me. This has yet not happened despite multiple follow up calls.
The Dealership invoice does not provide the breakup in pricing for various accessories.
The Dealership maintains that the price book is prepared exactly as per Ford Instructions and that they have only printed copies of the original documents.

This is a serious offence. I believe all three: Ford, Map My India and the Dealership should be held accountable.

UNRESOLVED - Request for specific advice on how this can be handled from the point of view of a) Consumer Court (What? Where? How much details - if I do go this route will like to sue them for a large amount of money as well for the hassle). In the meanwhile ford guys if reading this could come up to me and make me an offer and apologize to cool down my temper.

I believe others who went in for the official SatNav unit too would have overpaid so they too should take this up. The only benifit of the unit is that it has a built in and presaved list of ford service centres. :)

PS: The SatNav unit is not worth even the MRP value obviously. I had gone for it for the convenience and installation that was promised, but it was just a sealed unit that was handed over to me, it has too small a screen and is also not user intuitive. The Maps are decent - possibly even good but the unit goes down in 60-90 minutes and hence requires to be constantly connected to the charger. I don't recommend it. The Android phones with Google maps work just as well and this does not come close to a built-in unit experience - Hey even the Duster has that, as did my Aria which I sold off a few months back. Actually this kind of mocks the claim and perception of the EcoSport being loaded to the brim with features. Had to buy even the Reverse Camera as a separate accessory and it does not display in the central display but in the mirror.

2) Coolant Level below min level at time of delivery- PDI Lapse, Serivice centre incompetence.

Snaps of the Coolant Level that we would all clearly find to be slightly below min or at could at best be misunderstood to be at min level. In both cases it amounts to an incorrect level.






The Snap of the user manual that specifies that the coolant level if AT OR BELOW min must be immediately topped up.






I reported this as soon as I spotted the defect. Got a call from the Shreeji Ford Service centre by a guy maintaining to be the head there (later found out that he is the floor supervisor named "RajKumar"). He argued with me that he felt the level was at min as per the photograph and hence need not be topped up and there was no fault in PDI. Not only were people in the service centre ignorant and arrogant about the correct levels and goofed up in PDI but also ford too did a faulty PDI at their own end before dispatching the vehicle. Yep I too did not do a comprehensive PDI while taking delivery but then it is not my job but my passion and was in a hurry that day with guest due at home and the guys already had me exasperated with the delays in delivery and registration.

About 15 days later just before making a trip to Mahabaleshwar I visited the service centre (they were pre-informed that I would be coming with this specific issue by the sales guy who was handling my account) and showed the coolant level to the technician and they too again maintained that the coolant level was fine and is similar in all new vehicles and that min is the correct level. I walked off. Phoned Ford western region head, and a senior in the showroom sales, shared the user manual scan with them. They both apologized and arranged for the same team which had denied there being anything unusual in the coolant level to come to my home in the evening and top up the fluid level before I made my long trip next day in the hills.

RESOLVED - Suggest all other owners also take a look at their coolant levels and not assume it to be correctly filled. Do not go by what the guys in the service centre state regarding levels as proved by my experience most are not aware about the service rules and have either not been trained properly or have not read the service manuals. The seniors are no better.

Got my vehicle serviced by the same centre for the first service a guy by the name of Satish was aware of my history with them and he was very courteous as did go beyond the normal to service my vehicle, gave him a 10 on 10 rating for all aspects, but still felt that technical awareness of many at the service centre was quite low. was also impressed by the guy doing the inspection post delivery post service and he seemed to be doing a proper final job.

3) Dent on the hood. This is a weird one for sure.


Shreeji Ford guys delivered my vehicle all decked up with ribbons and bows (especially the bonnet) - very unlike the other Ecosports that they have been delivering. I had checked out the vehicle at the Ford Warehouse close to their showroom after their PDI while accessories were being fitted. Obviously something happened between then and the time the vehicle was delivered to me and someone wisely thought it fit to cover up a dent with a bow and since the spot was off centre another bow to match it on the other side.

I noticed the defect when I lifted the Bow about 3-4 days later and immediately asked the asked the accessories guy (since I had a better rapport with him) about it, who suggested that I show it to him and they he would be able to comment on a solution. I did show it to him about 10-15 days alter (in the meanwhile the dent kept coming up and got reduced in scope but not sufficiently to not be clearly noticed even from a distance. The accessories guy took me to body shop and they said that they could not remove the dent with a puller and that it will require the entire bonnet to be painted. Escalated it to the senior sales guy in the showroom who checked with his management and they have refused to do anything about it unless ford asks them to. Have escalated to a senior in Ford (on whatsapp) and as yet do not have a resolution that was promised. HAve sent a reminder message.

Snaps:








The snaps are not very clear do to various reflections from trees but there is one that I have with the gum of the bow tape still on the paint - taken right the moment the bow came off. Of course do note the unique ribbon work and bows that they gave me - this is with another two ribbons already removed they were placed across the vehicle to make a chequered pattern on the hood.

The funny and worrying bit, I have seen dents in the bonnet of 3 other Ecosports at the same dealership in the same spot. It was a back one in the showroom - prior to my delivery (should have alerted me), and another 2 in the warehouse of different colours. In all cases it was in the same sport. I think this happens when a person tries to shut the bonnet with pressure on the bonnet - rather than drop it from say a height of 6". This is a design flaw and I would suggest all take care of this as it can easily happen in a mall or hotel where they open the bonnet to check for explosives and then try to close it after placing it down. A bit of a press at the wrong spot and you have a irreversible dent.

Yep I was at fault at not reporting it to the right person immediately on noticing the dent but was tied up with major work at office then and yet since this was something that the dealership has done they should find a solution in good faith.

UNRESOLVED - Others should check below the ribbon bows and also be careful about where they press down on the bonnet especially the guys at the mall and hotel check posts. In the meanwhile my fight with ford and the dealership over this issue continues.

4) Minor intermittent rattle from the speedmeter console area
5) LHS Front window glass goes up slow (slower than the rest for sure).
6) Driver seat moves ahead a bit (rises from the back towards the front) when a heavy person (like me) brakes the car suddenly. This seems to be happening to the driver seat due to the height being changeable.

None among 4,5,6 were detected and are hard to reproduce at the service centre. During first service they did grease all glasses and I have let it be for now, the rattle was anyways intermittent and has not appeared post service though they claim to have done nothing about it.

PARTIALLY RESOLVED

7) Fuel Level at time of Delivery: I was given delivery of the vehicle with less than 3L in the vehicle and with the Fuel in the amber zone. They still had to do get the Octroi inspection and registration completed and that since the vehicle was bought in Thane but with Mumbai registration meant atleast another 700 bucks of fuel to be filled in, the car would have not made even a third of that trip with the fuel in the vehicle. Since that was part of the Dealers responsibility I pointed out to the Sales team that they should fuel the vehicle accordingly though they were giving me delivery prior to the registration. They promised to reimburse me Rs. 500 towards fuel and insipite of giving a reminder this amount has not been sent across. It is really sad that a customer has to follow up for such matters and it takes away from the Ownership experience in a big way.

UNRESOLVED AS YET

8) Demo: The guy who gave me the demo at the showroom was the designated person who had been trained by Ford for the same. The guy was clueless not only about the AT but also about features like auto-lock as X speed etc. Infact the guy on being questioned about it with my stating that this was surely there as a feature stated that it he recollected that it would auto-lock after 5 seconds of the ignition being started - which is just not the way it works in the EcoSport. On complaining about this was assured that the "Techguru" from ford would personally brief me regarding the features at my residence - This too never materialized.

UNRESOLVED AS YET

9) Official Accessory: Interior LED Ambient Lights Came loose and fell off within one day of installation:

Yep the LED Ambient Lights (which by the way look brilliant and are a good to have accessory) came loose and fell off. I stuck them back on once and they fell off again. They took it to the guys who fitted them, and they changed the double side tape and it has stayed on since then - but doesn't inspire confidence. The official accessories should have something better than double side tape to hold the ambient lights in my view.




They also had not fitted the plastic interior trim behind he door rubber the right way and had to get them to correct that as well. (This had been removed to fit the Lit door scruff plates.




RESOLVED

Too many promises and very few kept.

Your advice on how I could resolve pending issues like that of the Dent and Satnav MRP too would be of great help though I guess these require some action from ford itself.

I could so clearly sense your frustration as i read through. The excitement of taking home a new car that you have had to wait for so long is ruined by a handful of people. And these guys can actually can make a difference in how you feel simply by doing their jobs sincerely.

Some of the things you mentioned around accessories were spotted by me as well esp regarding the price and fitments so i've avoided all kinds of pressures to get any accessories from the dealer. The MRP for side boards is 26k!! I can get a side step fitted in a good accessory shop for 6k flat. The window shades or what ever that is installed above the windows to stop rain from coming into the cabin were 5.5k i think. They had 3M tape to stick them up. Ridiculous!! How long can the tape hold them?? Except for the seat covers, every single accessory is priced exhorbitantly, the workman ship is extremely poor and attitude in case of mistakes appalling.

The coolant levels were an issue in my case too along with the washer-wiper fluid but my experience with Talera Ford, Pune has been so positive. The SA, service department have all been good. The accessories dept is clearly miles behind and definitely a no-go. I suggest you stay away from any kind of accessory fitment at the dealer that requires drilling holes or electrical fitment.


The dent & MRP of Satnav are definitely something you should persue both with the dealer & Ford. Of the dent particularly, given that you must have not noticed during delivery and signed off the PDI form, i suggest you retain a cordial relationship and try and get it done without much fuss. I can understand your anger at being cheated so but i would suggest getting it fixed and then taking it up with Ford.

P.S. --> don't even bother anyone from the dealership to walk you through the features. These guys don't have a clue and i came to know of tons of things built in on sync from the manual and forums here. The dealer chap had flatly refused the existence of these features when i asked during my delivery! :D

Thanks,

The Dealership has refused to help with the Dent.

The SatNav unit being charged over MRP is a major legal fault and I can actually take them to court over it (The Dealer, Ford and Map My India). I do have original printouts of their Price Book and they claim that the prices are as provided by Ford, so they too are at fault. They are getting caught here as it is a Branded third party unit, in case of stuff like the side board and reverse camera where they are overcharging they have conveniently kept a very high MRP and since they are not Branded Goods, they can get away with that legally, but not so for third party Brands.

As regards the window top shades sadly all of them are fitted by 3M tape and there does not seem to be an alternative. The ones of My Safari fell off after a year and the ones on my Aria lasted 2.5 years till the vehicle was sold. This can last provided it is fitted quite well.

Yep the TechGuru or what every system they have of training the Dealers on the feature or even for that matter the Service front is clearly failing.

Can't you use the Satnav issue as a bargaining chip for the dent? I mean the SatNav overcharging issue is definitely something that can cause Ford, your dealer and the entire dealer community much heartburn.

I'm sure you have tried all kinds of coaxing and verbal duels. In case you know someone who can place a call and get things done, its worth a shot. Just throwing up ideas before you really have no choice but to go down the long and winding legal recourse route.

About the first point, this is something odd. But there may be an explanation for it, though I cant really be sure. And it may be that the dealer is telling the truth, and is charging exactly what Ford is asking them to charge.

The box mentions "Specially Packed for Ford India". This means that pricing of the unit is not dependent on MapMyIndia. They must have sold the entire thing as bulk order, with the extra features. The price they charged Ford for the same is unknown, because of the extra features. Ford will probably add a markup and sell it to the consumers. So, pricing it above MRP on the box is not completely out of question, since the MRP mentions on the box is probably for a standard set that is being sold outside and not for a Ford specific set that you got. Generally when such specially packed product sale happens, many a times you see no MRP marked, or sometimes even a white sticker on the MRP on the box, because the MRP is not really applicable in this case. Of course the excess price that Ford is charging seems a bit too high, for the kind of extra features added.

On the second point of below min coolant level, it may actually be the correct level. In the two Puntos of my family, the coolant level when topped up during service is actually generally filled below normal. I asked the service manager about this, he said that they knowingly do so. Their explanation is that due to the hotter conditions in India the coolant temperatures tend to be a bit higher especially during city running. This causes the coolant to expand and start to leak out sometimes. They said it happened with a few cars, and thus generally on company advice they keep the coolant level slightly below the "min" mark at cold condition, allowing for a bit more space for it to expand.

After he gave this explanation, I agreed at the time, but decided to keep track of coolant levels and engine temp. I saw no significant effect of actual cooling, but I didnt expect a few ml of coolant making a significant difference. But an almost daily early morning check of the coolant level for about 5-6 months showed me something. When I got the car serviced in December, the coolant level in cold condition was a bit below the "min" mark. But about 4 months later, around April and May, at cold condition after a full nights rest, the coolant level settled a few mm above the min mark. Also many a times after about a 30min drive, I would sometime pop the hood and check the coolant level, and pretty regularly the level was well above the max mark. If the coolant had been filled up even mid way between min and max, the hot coolant would have expanded right upto the lid.

Thus now, I have come to accept that in cold condition, if the coolant level is a bit below the manual recommended "min" mark, then its completely normal.

Dear ACM sir,

- With regards to the satnav unit, you will have to go via the consumer court way only (unless a complaint lodged with ford can resolve this issue, have you tried lodging a complaint via the customercare@ford? OR if they succumb to threats of going to the consumer court). I think a lawyer will be able to guide you better as to the approach.

- With regards to the dent, I am unable to gauge the extent (dimensions), but I think a good expert denter and painter can correct it easily. If I were you, I would personally just stop bothering the dealer and ford, since they generally start ignoring a customer if he complains all the time and is very picky (first hand experience here). They are still not maruti yet with regards to customer complaint handling. I recently had some denting done on my figo to remove some big and some minor dents (like yours), and the local guy here did a good job (but then, mine is a white vehicle). Frankly, shreeji ford is not worth the time and effort wasted.

- Also, I have a question. If you have been to the workshop of shreeji ford, can you tell me whether they have interactive bays there? (I just want to know).

- If you are ok with it, might I suggest you to try out wasan ford for your servicing needs. It is farther from your home, however, 3 fords from my family are serviced there inspite of 3 other service centers being nearer to us. They are professional overall (they do goof up every now and then though, but if you were to raise your voice a little, they are very eager to solve your problem). You can read the experience of mine with them in my ownership thread. Recently, another member also had a good experience with these guys. I avail of their driver pick up and drop services, and I check out every thing they do, and till now they have done all the jobs they bill me for.

- With regards to the auto-lock, the feature has been disabled from all new ford vehicles AFAIK. There is a way to enable it in the new fiesta (I did a DIY, hence I am assuming that it should be possible with the eco-sport as well), but I immediately disabled it after consultation with a friend.

Thanks.
Simple_car

P.S. I just went through the t-bhp review, and noticed that ford has also removed the secret compartment from the eco-sport, which came along with the fiesta.

NOPE:

A) The Box is obviously specially packed for Ford, infact this specific model is not available outside and it comes with the list of ford service centres. Now while shipping the product since excise (at MMI end) would be payable on the MRP this price has to be printed on the box. Once an MRP is printed on a box a further reseller cannot place another MRP on the box. Yes a similar product can have two differently printed packaging (like in water bottles in multiplex cinema halls) where a different MRP can be printed. But at no time can anyone charge anything more than MRP. Also the box was handed to me in a sealed condition and there was no scope for any installation charges either.

BESIDES I do have a saved sms message from the accessories guy from ford who has stated that they will refund the difference in prices (an acknowledgement of fault if there was any).

ACTUALLY ON THE SATNAV ISSUE am quite sure THE DIFFERENCE AMOUNT WILL BE RECEIVED BY ME though they have taken their own sweet time for it. The idea of the post was mainly to HELP OTHERS GET A REFUND IF THEY ARE CHARGED OVER MRP and to STOP THE MALPRACTIVE IN FUTURE.

B) Coolant level was checked in the morning without starting and photographed after keeping the car overnight.
The Ford EcoSport Manual clearly mentions that one must immediately top up if the level is at or below Min. The range between Min and Max is meant to take care of the variation with ambient temperature (in off state when kept as is for a while). Both the Service Guys and Ford Person did acknowledge the error and infact later came down to my place to address the issue.

My point was that may be MMI just got lazy, and instead printed the usual MRP for their other product, instead of printing a FORD agreed to MRP or just mentioning "Not for sale outside".

Of course if FORD/Dealer have agreed to a mistake, then I am wrong. I am just trying to find a reason for the price difference.

The FIAT manual also mentions to immediately top up if it falls below the marked "min" level. But like I explained, I have found that keeping it slightly below the "min" mark is a better practice. Remember, Ford and FIAT may both have just used the same "min" and "max" marking that they use internationally, and not compensated for the change in environmental conditions.

I have a different take but with reason.

Ans1) Someone in Ford quite lazily marked up the accessories prices basis their cost price but forgot to check the MRP that MMI is shipping with. It works fine for unbranded accessories which they are shipping from their own warehouse after directly importing them.

Ans2) Since there is a tolerance range one would rarely find out the impact of having lower or higher levels (like in my case too.) This vehicle is shipped since a long time in Brazil which has a similar temperature range as us. Here too the Manual must be held as the prime valid document rather than experience of the mechanic as the manual is prepared after detailed research and tests.

Hmm, that could be too. But I am not sure whether there is any illegality. It may be unethical, as Ford seems to be trying to make quite a good bit of money off the GPS unit.

There will barely be any impact on engine temp of a couple of ml less coolant.

But, like I said practical experience shows me that the coolant is expanding well above the marked "max" mark after a not very long drive in city conditions, even if the coolant was slightly below the "min" mark when cold. And like you said, the marked "min" and "max" level should take care of the expansion when running. But that wasnt what I saw in my car. Thus I think it better to fill a few ml of coolant less, thus leaving a bit more space in the system for expansion of the coolant.

Of course, it may be that FORD have taken care of the high ambient temperatures in India and made the markings accordingly. But as is well known, the manufacturers are not immune to mistakes. The Ecosport itself was recalled within a month of its launch in India, despite all the detailed research and tests.