[Sunilrj]

and now something more. this thing refuses to die down soon!

X1.pdf

[Turbanator]

this thing refuses to die down soon!

To quote from your mails exchanged with Dealership

Nevertheless, we have agreed mutually that the wheels on your car will be replaced in order to have a resolutions. We also gave an option of rear glass and running board replacement which you intend not to proceed with.

You have now put forth a new request via your email dated 12th August 2014 regarding us offering an upgrade of maintenance package and settling your concern in lieu of any replacement of alloys etc. while the earlier option as agreed of replacement of alloys can be done at no cost to you, we can only extend the upgrade on a cost sharing basis.
The upgrade cost of the maintenance package is 1,68,203/- INR and we would be happy to contribute 50,460/- INR (About 30%) from our end if you so desire and close the matter.

If I understand correctly Dealership has agreed to replace Alloys , Running Board but you are instead asking them to adjust the costs of such parts with something else ( BSI pack ) & you keep using the existing scratched parts ?

Well in my opinion they should have agreed to this request to close this issue but they might not be in position to accept this as they will have to send these scratched parts back to BMW for replacement / claims and BMW might not reimburse without getting these back .

Your comparison with suit is not correct in my opinion as - First you took delivery when you have observed all these defects knowing fully that you can at most get replacement of parts in question & not a new Car !! Secondly these Cars are manufactured in a way that individual parts / components can always be replaced which will normally not effect working of complete assembly or Car .

[Sunilrj]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

To quote from your mails exchanged with Dealership





If I understand correctly Dealership has agreed to replace Alloys , Running Board but you are instead asking them to adjust the costs of such parts with something else ( BSI pack ) & you keep using the existing scratched parts ?

Well in my opinion they should have agreed to this request to close this issue but they might not be in position to accept this as they will have to send these scratched parts back to BMW for replacement / claims and BMW might not reimburse without getting these back .

Your comparison with suit is not correct in my opinion as - First you took delivery when you have observed all these defects knowing fully that you can at most get replacement of parts in question & not a new Car !! Secondly these Cars are manufactured in a way that individual parts / components can always be replaced which will normally not effect working of complete assembly or Car .

Coming to the points raised by you

1. dealership has agreed to replace alloys, running board and hatch glass. can they get the car back to factory condition without there being paint overspill, overspray, new scratches, nicks and dings ? replacement of the Rear glass requires that the existing sealant be scraped off. so can they guarantee that they will deliver the car back in factory condition ?

2. why did i take delivery ? the road tax had been paid out in my name an hour before the scheduled delivery time, when a temporary registration was in force till August 31st. So didn't the dealer observe the defects during PDI ? if they did and noted it on the PDI Report then why did they go ahead with payment of Road Tax ? if their PDI didn't notice these issues, then how can you be sure that the point no 1 above will be addressed to my satisfaction ? if the PDI didn't notice these issues then there is a question on their competency!. if they hadn't paid the road tax ( they had said they would pay it after the 8th of August) i would definitely not have taken delivery; and if i hadn't taken delivery, they wouldn't have refunded the road tax to me, and also would have charged parking charges for every day the delivery has not been taken!

3. i have never asked for a new car. I would have asked for it if they had not paid the road tax. all i am asking is address these concerns properly. since BMW India is also in the know of things, the cost of replacement of 4 rims ( each Rim costs about GBP 356) + running board + rear Hatch Glass would come up to something more than the Maintenance package. further the pictures have been sent by the dealership to BMW India; so BMW insisting that these parts be sent back to them is stupid; if they have said so.


My next Mail:

Mr. Warad

Further to my Trailing mail i do not find sense in the Logic of Navnit Motors and BMW India , wherein you have delivered me a defective car, and now you expect me to pay for the Compensation that is supposed to be given to me, so that your dealership and BMW India can unjustly enrich yourselves again at my cost ? the BMW maintenance package was sought as a compensation for the defects in the car, in lieu of the replacements suggested by you, since the replacements would not bring the car back to Factory Condition. By asking me to bear 70% of the cost of the maintenance Package, you have once again proved that Navnit Motors is not keen on finding an acceptable resolution. the only way forward would be to approach the Court and obtain a direction from the court for replacement of the entire vehicle at your cost, as well as damages, costs and compensation for mental agony, stress, intention to cheat and defraud so forth and so on.

as i see it, first you deliver a car with defects, paying the road tax in a hurried manner. then when the defects are pointed out even before the car is brought to the delivery lounge, you act as though you are ignorant of the defects, when a resolution is sought you offer a impractical resolution wherein you want to work on the vehicle and replace parts that have been permanently fixed to the body of the vehicle, which would entail scrubbing, sanding, chipping of the glass frame. that too on a vehicle that is not even 15 days into its delivery.

and then you say that i should pay 70% of the cost of the maintenance package for all your faults and defects in the vehicle ? for your negligence during PDI ? for the defects ? am i the aggrieved part or is Navnit Motors / BMW the aggrieved Party ?

and the one which follows it:
Mr. Warad

in continuation to my trailing mail, you have sought to replace the running board and Hatch Glass. Can you provide in writing that

1. The Car will be restored back to factory condition
2. there won’t be any new dents, nicks, scratches in other areas
3. there won’t be paint overspray, paint dust, defects and deformities in paint like dust particles, bubbles etc
4. that there will not be water ingress from the rear hatch glass
5. there will not be any marks on the nuts and bolts, locks and latches holding the hatch
6. that there is not be sealant overspill, scratches, cuts etc due to sanding/ scraping off the sealant on the window frame
7. that the Hatch, the Hatch glass will be aligned properly as it is now
8. that the warranty against corrosion / paint work as specified by the manufacturer will not be affected
9. That for the number of days i go without a vehicle for no fault of mine, you will reimburse taxi charges on actual bills provided / settle bills directly or provide me a loaner car of a similar nature/ category
10. that in case any defects are noted in so far as point no 1 to 8 are concerned, you will unconditionally take the car back and refund my money or replace it with another car ?

when your Team was incompetent enough not to do a proper PDI, i doubt it if you would be able to handle a rectification job of such magnitude!

awaiting your reply

yours faithfully


CA. Sunil R.J. Gonsalves

[Sunilrj]

BMW India and Navnit Motors get their due share of publicity on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bmwindia/posts/862725647070859

am sure the admins will delete the post as soon as they see it!!!

[Sunilrj]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

.

Mr. Warad

In continuation to my trailing mails, and your mail to me, and the mail from Mr. Gopinath wherein he has has waxed eloquence of the transparency of Navnit Motors, i wish to have a reply from you, which i am sure will be in line with the other replies received, such as

1. furnishing wrong quotes of BMW FS EMI - The sales consultant was fasting and could have been delirious, disoriented and confused
2. Underbody Rusting - All BMW Cars that pass through this dealership are Rusted
3. Insurance NCB Adjustment - This is the first time we are hearing about this

now coming to this mail i have a few specific Questions to you

1. is it Standard Operating procedure to bill a customer before the PDI is done on a car to identify any issues which may not conform to Manufacturer specifications ?

from the documents provided by you and delivered to me i see that the Invoice has been raised on 31st July 2014, the Debit Note on 1st August 2014, but the PDI was done only on 2nd August 2014 as per the service Booklet. so in other words, you had decided to deliver the car on the 31st itself whether or not it was in proper condition even before the PDI had been done ? so whether or not the vehicle had scratches, or vehicle had serious manufacturing defects, or vehicle was not in a deliverable condition, you would have still insisted that i take delivery ? Am I right ? that also explains the exceptional hurry shown by your dealership in paying the road tax when the temporary registration was in force till 31st August 2014.

2. secondly to quote mr. Gopinath "We, at Navnit Motors, give paramount importance to customer satisfaction and transparency in our customer dealing. This must have been evident to you wherein at each step your concurrence was taken before moving ahead, be it inspection of the vehicle by yourself or proceeding with PDI after inspection and also prior to sending the car for registration. You may recall while you had asked for the delivery on the 1st August 2014,our team effected the delivery only on the 4th August 2014 after completing all documentation and formalities.. At no point in time we have rushed through the process.”

if this was the case why was the temporary registration taken on 1st August 2014 before PDI was done ? why was an invoice and debit note raised on 31st July and 1st August respectively when the PDI had not been carried out ?

Myself and quite a few prospective customers of BMW will be waiting intently for your replies on the points raised above!

Yours faithfully

CA. Sunil R.J. Gonsalves

[Sunilrj]

Mr. Warad

I also notice that you have taken the insurance in my name on 1st August even before PDI; so hypothetically in case the vehicle was damaged by fire, flood etc while in your custody, before delivery, you would have made me undergo the entire claim procedure!

CA. Sunil Gonsalves

[aseem]

I feel sometimes enough fud is being created out of petty issues and we should not be a party to it as BHPians. There are 2 sides of the story in every situation. I am not doubting whats being written, but come on, almost all cars, and perhaps even BMW has some underbody rust. Just take a anti-rust coating and move on. What is the end result we are gunning for here? A new car? Thats a little far fetched in my not so humble opinion. Enjoy your drive buddy and don't get hassled by these small things.

This reminds me of when I was a child I used to even clean the soles for the new shoes I had bought for a few days. I am big enough now to understand I was being kiddish at that time. I feel you are taking your owning a BMW too seriously. Its just a car mate, enjoy it and move on. It will not effect your ownership experience or resale by a penny. So enjoy your drive and congrats!

[Akshay1234]

Sunilrj, while I understand it is definitely a big chunk of money spent on the X1, and your experience has been sour till now - I don't understand what you expect from this? A new car is not going to happen.

I think you should save yourself the frustration, and let them replace all the wheels, and the glass at their cost. I'm sure they will do a good job of replacing the glass. Some other members have had their windsheilds replaced on their BMWs and its apparently as good as new. I would also expect a BMW workshop to follow some level of quality.

While I can understand how irritating it is to have issues like these, I would still recommend you take what they are offering, and possibly push them to pay further on the BSI package and close the issue and have a good time with your Bimmer.

[aseem]

Expecting subsidisation of BSI package against so called issues is not correct. BMW is rightly offering a replacement for the said parts. BSI negotiations should have happened before purchasing the car.

[Sunilrj]

Originally Posted by aseem

I feel sometimes enough fud is being created out of petty issues and we should not be a party to it as BHPians. There are 2 sides of the story in every situation. I am not doubting whats being written, but come on, almost all cars, and perhaps even BMW has some underbody rust. Just take a anti-rust coating and move on. What is the end result we are gunning for here? A new car? Thats a little far fetched in my not so humble opinion. Enjoy your drive buddy and don't get hassled by these small things.

Assem this issue and mails that are being sent is not for rusting. Infact Rusting of Cast Iron parts is not rust but oxidation which we very well know. Underbody corrosion coating has been done after i Pointed this to them. Till then their line of argument had been ' All BMW's that have been delivered were rusted'. lets see how it holds up. the issue is of the chipped, scuffed and scratched alloys mind you all 4 are chipped and scuffed, the multiple scratches on the rear hatch glass and on the running board.

these imperfections can be felt with your nails / fingers, but Navnit Motors quotes them as 'Hairline' further i would have been happy with a new set of wheels, an apology for all things that have gone wrong from the beginning with the transaction i.e. hours before the full payment was made the insurance quote went up by 50,000/- from 71,000 change to 1,27,000 odd. and the other issues detailed above. i am not gunning for a new car. since the dealership took almost 10 days to come up with a solution to the chipped wheels, and their team stated that ' all BMW's sold from this dealership have such issues and no one makes a fuss about it' i am documenting everything here and obtaining their written confirmations.

so are you implying that if tomorrow you are delivered a 1 series which has a repainted door or a leaking quarter Glass or a bent Alloy, you will accept it without fuss ? Navnit Motors will be happy with a customer like you. read this X3 Purchase experience - The Issues have still not been sorted out -----> My recent vehicle Purchase.pdf. the same customer was delivered a MINI Countryman with all 4 Bent rims. as he took delivery and crossed the Showroom gate which is about 20 feet away he noticed a wobble. went right back in and asked them to put it on the ramp. their answer was' sir you drove it out and there was no wobble' when he threatened to sue them, they replaced all four alloys. so is Navnit Motors / BMW taking customers for granted ?

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Sunilrj, while I understand it is definitely a big chunk of money spent on the X1, and your experience has been sour till now - I don't understand what you expect from this? A new car is not going to happen.

I think you should save yourself the frustration, and let them replace all the wheels, and the glass at their cost. I'm sure they will do a good job of replacing the glass. Some other members have had their windsheilds replaced on their BMWs and its apparently as good as new. I would also expect a BMW workshop to follow some level of quality.

While I can understand how irritating it is to have issues like these, I would still recommend you take what they are offering, and possibly push them to pay further on the BSI package and close the issue and have a good time with your Bimmer.

Akshay, I never asked for a New car. They want to play truant and insinuated initially that i put those marks on the car before delivery, when the car was in their custody! All i ask is why should the rear hatch glass be replaced on a new car. provide me some compensation and i will live with the scratches on the glass and running board. am ok with replacing the set of wheels and i have my concerns about replacing the Hatch glass and running board since they do not have a full fledged body shop here. they will want to drive it up to Bangalore and get it back, adding 650 Kms to the new car. and yes why did they proceed with taking the cover note, Temporary registration before PDI and why doesn't their PDI report mention these defects ? also at the time of delivery the entire Vehicle exterior had tar spots ? is this BMW quality and is the Purchase and delivery experience supposed to be like this ? the workshop is under-manned and they have not been able to rectify small issues on a brand new X3 where the engine seized in the 3rd Month of purchase, and till date the transmission oil still leaks!

Originally Posted by aseem

Expecting subsidisation of BSI package against so called issues is not correct. BMW is rightly offering a replacement for the said parts. BSI negotiations should have happened before purchasing the car.

BSI Ultimate 3 Years has been purchased at the time of Booking. Aseem, you suggest a resolution which as a customer would be acceptable to you, if it were your car. Replacing alloys is OK. Driving the car to Bangalore and Back to replace the Hatch Glass and adding 650 Kms to a 201 Km run Car is not ok. i do not think replacing the Hatch Glass will restore the vehicle back to Factory condition specially since painting will be required after the sanding and removal of the existing sealant and this has been confirmed by their own technicians. further in case they damage some other exterior panel, then i would have to again drag this on. and yes the painters are outsourced from a local garage!

They also acknowledge to another friend that till date they have not been cornered by someone, with written documentation provided by them. it has been arguments, counter arguments over the phone and no resolution in sight. even these replacement alloys are supposedly to be ordered and can take a couple of months or more. effectively the customer will not have the wheels and will forget the entire episode / or get tired of pursuing the matter. this is their logic.


And this is the most important Point. A friend of mine who worked for Navnit Motors previously as GM, and another friend who is the GM of a competing BMW Dealership up north were and are of the view that extending the BSI is cheaper for both Navnit and BMW than replacing the alloys which cost about 60K per piece, replacing the hatch glass and running board which again cost around 40-50k. Both of them were of the opinion that the resolution should have been faster, there should have been an apology for their failures and that the Purchase and delivery experience could have been much more pleasurable and that in the past they have as a goodwill measure done certain things for their customers for small issues like sand inside the cabin at the time of delivery, that the customers have been very happy with them. and Yes i just forgot to mention earlier Both the Senior Manager Operations and Service Manager had taken 'leave' on the day of delivery!

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

Sunilrj, while I understand it is definitely a big chunk of money spent on the X1, and your experience has been sour till now - I don't understand what you expect from this? A new car is not going to happen.

I think you should save yourself the frustration, and let them replace all the wheels, and the glass at their cost. I'm sure they will do a good job of replacing the glass.....

While I can understand how irritating it is to have issues like these, I would still recommend you take what they are offering, and possibly push them to pay further on the BSI package and close the issue and have a good time with your Bimmer.

Sunil, these are wise words from Akshay1234 and similar advice practical and sage advice from Turbanator. Ultimately only you can decide what level of pain and push you are willing to deal with. Are we seeking a solution or are we seeking to show the dealer his place. No offense meant but it seems your anger is driving this. Get your defective spares replaced and enjoy your vehicle. When so many well wishers on this forum are offering identical advice trust me it is likely the judge of a consumer court will say the same thing. This is not meant to upset you just offering my two cents of what I would do after 35 years of driving around. Best wishes and happy motoring

[Sunilrj]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Sunil, these are wise words from Akshay1234 and similar advice practical and sage advice from Turbanator. Ultimately only you can decide what level of pain and push you are willing to deal with. Are we seeking a solution or are we seeking to show the dealer his place. No offense meant but it seems your anger is driving this. Get your defective spares replaced and enjoy your vehicle. When so many well wishers on this forum are offering identical advice trust me it is likely the judge of a consumer court will say the same thing. This is not meant to upset you just offering my two cents of what I would do after 35 years of driving around. Best wishes and happy motoring

Thanks everybody for the advice. Like i have all along maintained I am not asking for a new car. I have never even said i am not open to a compromise. but compromise to what extent ?

yes we are seeking a solution and a resolution. my anger is not driving this

The Vehicle was delivered on 4th August 2014, and does anyone require 12 days (16th August) to acknowledge that there is a problem which has been not noted during PDI and offer a resolution when the defect has been pointed out even before delivery and noted on the Gate pass and delivery note? to apologise and say yes we didn't do a proper PDI and that the vehicle had not been cleaned Prior to delivery ?

instead of offering excuses like the ones above quoted, Navnit Motors could have just apologised for the tardy PDI.

The X3 above delivered with a leaking windshield washer reservoir in 2013 is still awaiting the replacement - the explanation offered here is the Parts have been ordered. they are on back order. its been more than 15 months and the reservoir hasn't been replaced.

what i want is a commitment and a time frame and action based on that commitment. you can't just offer to replace the wheels and then say order will be placed, and once the wheels arrive we will replace them without specifying whether it is going to happen in 15 days, 1 month, 2 months etc.

Also since most here feel that i am making a mountain of a molehill, i would suggest that you go through the other BMW ownership reviews on this forum as well as on other Indian fora and you will find that in most cases, they are up against a wall with no resolutions in sight for quite some periods of time.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Sunilrj

Akshay, I never asked for a New car. They want to play truant and insinuated initially that i put those marks on the car before delivery, when the car was in their custody! All i ask is why should the rear hatch glass be replaced on a new car. provide me some compensation and i will live with the scratches on the glass and running board. am ok with replacing the set of wheels and i have my concerns about replacing the Hatch glass and running board since they do not have a full fledged body shop here. they will want to drive it up to Bangalore and get it back, adding 650 Kms to the new car. and yes why did they proceed with taking the cover note, Temporary registration before PDI and why doesn't their PDI report mention these defects ? also at the time of delivery the entire Vehicle exterior had tar spots ? is this BMW quality and is the Purchase and delivery experience supposed to be like this ? the workshop is under-manned and they have not been able to rectify small issues on a brand new X3 where the engine seized in the 3rd Month of purchase, and till date the transmission oil still leaks!

I know you didn't ask for a new car, was just trying to understand what you wanted as the outcome. You can ask them to flatbed it to Bangalore, in that way it will not put on any additional KMs.

Originally Posted by Sunilrj

what i want is a commitment and a time frame and action based on that commitment. you can't just offer to replace the wheels and then say order will be placed, and once the wheels arrive we will replace them without specifying whether it is going to happen in 15 days, 1 month, 2 months etc.

Why not just sit down with them and come to an agreement? Give them your demands, and hopefully they will agree. They wheels shouldn't take more than a week, and I'm sure they can give you the wheels off another X1 in their stockyard and order new wheels for that.

[Sunilrj]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

I know you didn't ask for a new car, was just trying to understand what you wanted as the outcome. You can ask them to flatbed it to Bangalore, in that way it will not put on any additional KMs.



Why not just sit down with them and come to an agreement? Give them your demands, and hopefully they will agree. They wheels shouldn't take more than a week, and I'm sure they can give you the wheels off another X1 in their stockyard and order new wheels for that.

Akshay . Open flat bed truck ? Please do a google search to know the condition of the Road to Bangalore; and the drivers drive like rally drivers. what i wanted as an outcome:

Option 1: replace Alloys and Compensate for the scratches on the glass and running board either by providing some accessories / Car care Products on FOC Basis
Option 2: Dont replace alloys, Glass and running Board and extend Maintenance package by 2 More years
Option 3: Dealer to provide some better Option

have already tried sitting down with them for 5 sessions. the outcome is NIL as they say we need to discuss this with our management and they never get back.

well they aren't willing to swap wheels from another X1 in their yard, and have said that it needs to come down from Germany

[Sunilrj]

Ok. now we have a resolution in sight. The Senior Manager, Operations visited me this evening and gave me a proposal which was acceptable to me. I am allowed to keep the Vehicle in Stock condition without having the dealership to experiment on the replacements. Awaiting the written confirmation from him.

In fact this Proposal could have been given on day 1 itself, which they didn't as a result losing out on a few bookings and quite a lot of negative publicity in this sleepy little place where word of mouth travels faster than the fastest courier service! Will keep you updated once the written confirmation is in!

Of course due to some non disclosure conditions that i will have to adhere to, i may not be in a position to write in detail about the terms of the resolution.