[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by DuHasstMich

In the end, the dealership is a business, whatever margin they earn per car is not the direct profit of the owner. They have to account for the space rental, staff salaries, maintenance and consumables of the dealership etc, to ensure the customers have a pleasant experience. All this while making a profit, since this is not a charity.

Well, then its just bad business. I know that dealerships still charge 2% on card payments. If your margins are so slim, why bother starting up the business in the first place?

As folks have rightly mentioned in the post above, it is just <1% of your car price!

It's the buyers heard earned money that's he's spending on a purchase thats very important to him. He deserves to be heard even if its 1% or 0.01% of the price of car. Whats lacking on part of the dealer is the way he's handling this. Instead of being upfront about it, they are being rude and arrogant.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by livetodrive

[h3]Extortion of handling charges by Trident Renault.

The entire scenario of past 5 days clearly shows Trident Renault is no less than a goon and this is day light robbery. Its not the amount, but about morals and ethics, if I should be paying this amount which the RTOs and the SCI have termed illegal. Now am left wondering if shortlisting a Renault was even the right choice? When they have no interest in retaining customers, how would the post sales service be? How do I deal with dealers who consider themselves above the law of the land?

I'll be a bit straightforward here, I took your side after reading your first post, but after hearing the telephonic conversation, the whole scenario to me felt odd, I'll explain why below.

Now to clear things out straightaway, my only connection with Trident is that I bought 3 Hyundai cars from them, all of which I got at good prices and excellent buy-back as well. I have had problems with their service but never in sales, and I never looked at overall break-up of costs when buying a car, I just gave them a ballpark of the discount and buyback rate I was expecting, and they matched it 95%, which is impressive as 2 times I also got loyalty bonus of 10k and 15k. While I may have paid handling charges for the current car, I got reduction in insurance, loyalty bonus and overall discount which if I remember right was about 1.5 lacs which was more than adequate. Since the overall buying process was smooth and completed in under 10 minutes, they even threw in all accessories like cover, perfume, cushions, idol and tissue + chocolates on handover.

Now don't get me wrong, as a customer, we always expect to be kings, but as a business we always expect to make money. As a businessman, I too encountered a situation where I was accused of monopoly and price-jacking.. it's only an accusation - only we know the costs involved in handling a business, storage costs, inventory management, getting stuck with unsold inventory/wastage which is almost always about 20% of purchase invoice etc. I've also said that if there's one business I won't do, it is in the automobile sector, all it takes is one customer or one employee error to be gaslit and bashed online for eternity. Long story short every time someone threatens to go to CCI like it happened with me, a case cannot be made just on the basis of superficial evidence that there is only one dealer in the city.. there may be dealers in nearby districts not to mention the fact that just because others aren't taking up dealerships or not importing certain products, it doesn't make a case for monopoly!!!

Now I'll come to the main point why I'm siding mostly with Trident here, even though it is a law that handling charges are illegal - they are willing to come down in other areas, and I'm pretty sure you can get almost all of the handling expenses cut down in the final invoice, in one area or the other (again, as I said before, be practical, don't look at break-ups, look at the end figure in bold, the final amount). If the both of you like the Duster that much, just buy the car and don't care for microscopic semantics, especially given that the discount is being matched elsewhere, in the end if you push them a bit more on accessories, car care treatments etc they may even oblige for that too. You stand to gain much more in less visible ways.

If your end intent is still, to buy the car and take them to court by all means you may.. but I see it a waste of your time and resources. The handling charges is a grey area, and sometimes it is waived off and sometimes, it is not, but it doesn't mean that other brands do not account it elsewhere in the other N number of adjustments available to them. Also, I paid for the registration and sundry charges, a small amount it was, but I'm ok with that level of give and take if they adjusted to my negotiation.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by DuHasstMich

I am not sure why such nominal amounts are not digestible by customers and why a special court ruling had to be passed for this.
In the end, the dealership is a business, whatever margin they earn per car is not the direct profit of the owner. They have to account for the space rental, staff salaries, maintenance and consumables of the dealership etc, to ensure the customers have a pleasant experience. All this while making a profit, since this is not a charity.

The next time you are buying a car, I guess you would be okay with the following nominal amounts?

- Handling charge
- 2% credit card charge
- 7,500 rupees RTO registration charges
- 20% premium on outside insurance charges
- 1,000 rupee parking charge
- 100 rupee coffee charge?

We are not okay with it because it is the LAW and has been enforced in many places too. If we don't stop today, who is to say what other "nominal charges" will come tomorrow!

If the dealership has a problem with profitability while doing business in a clean manner, maybe it's time to look at another line of work.

[drmohitg]

I am simply aghast at some members justifying the handling charges here. Has everyone gone insane? Sorry for the strong language but this IS NOT A GREY AREA as being labelled by some. It is as black and white as it can get in the real world. Why? Because there is a SC ruling on this matter which says that these charges are illegal. I simply do not get how some members are still managing to call these charges as justifiable? It is Fraud regardless of whether it is for Rs. 1 or Rs. 1 crore.

Dealers across the country and across all brands are still trying to fool customers into paying these charges. But that does not make these charges legal. And ever since this ruling, multiple dealers have been forced to waive these off whenever an informed educated buyer has let them know of the same. There is no guarantee that dealers from rival car makers would easily waive these off either. Many of us take it in our stride and go ahead with the purchase. But in this case if the OP has decided to stand for his right, then hats off to him. Please look elsewhere at rival offerings and see if the dealers there are more accommodative. The Duster is anyways too old a car to buy now and you may be better off buying something else.

[bharatbits]

If they want to add handling charges then going forward for all warranty related issues and FOC warranty replacements I'll also add handling charges of Rs 11000 each time because i am driving down the car to their place because of a problem in the car for which i am not the cause. Just like your stockyard my home is also far from your service center.

Originally Posted by GTO

If the dealership has a problem with profitability while doing business in a clean manner, maybe it's time to look at another line of work.

They don't have a problem with profitability. They have a problem with keeping their greed in check.
Nonetheless, dealerships have always been a front where though they lost some money in their shirt pocket they filled lot more in their trousers pockets from their service operations.

Also, who decides the handling charges? How is this amount of Rs 11,033 arrived at? Is it same at all Renault showrooms across India or in any particular city? Does Renault India fix them slyly? Or does the dealership decide on this and fix whatever it wants? The Rs 11033 till the units digit, it's been presented as if it has been arrived after some calculation so the customer may not pay much attention to it and think that it's indeed a legit charge. Clearly, trying to mislead a customer.

Restaurant bill:
Biryani Rs 500
Biryani cooking charge Rs 200
Total Rs 700

This handling charge by Trident Renault appears like that to me.

[Artyom]

These are tough times for businesses and income is scarce which might justify the adamant behaviour of not waiving off the charges.

From the customer's point that doesn't justify claiming some X amount which is deemed illegal by the court.

In my opinion, both are justified in their own right.

If your total amount is not getting affected after this compensation its a win-win for you.

Don't ruin the excitement of buying your dream car by something which the dealer is willing to fix.

[NaXal]

Some things are out of our hands but then there is this sweet example given by GTO as once people accept a charge, there is no stopping of opening the flood gates for 10 more additional charges.

Complain to the manufacturer, complain to the respective government authorities & if they ignore & no solution given, simply leave a feedback with the manufacturer about the reason of cancellation & go buy a different product. Mind you, India doesn't have shortage of competition & those products aren't such crap that you can't switch from your current selection to something else.

If regulations are bowing down to capitalism, then hurt them financially by taking your business else where.

However raising voice & making noise are absolute must to make them understand the reason of market rejection

Thanks.

[kamilharis]

We are already paying sky high taxes to buy our dream car. On top of that why are some members recommending to close our eyes at banned expenses like Handling Charges ??

It might be 5k or 10k for the buyer, but when such 10ks are collected from 10000s of buyers isn't this a scam of INR 100,000,000 ? And I have no shame in admitting that saving 100 rupees is still a happy deal for me.

If the dealer is making less profit it should not be buyer's concern. Either the dealer should move to some other business or he should do some smart business to increase the sales number so that the overall turnover will compensate the low margin, if in case.

[Samir Choudhry]

Whether automotive dealers can charge logistics charges on the sale of cars.

The Transport Department of Delhi issued a public notice bearing no. DIP/1331/2011-12, wherein motor vehicle dealers (“Dealers”) within the territory of Delhi were instructed to not levy unauthorized charges, specifically pertaining to car handling and logistics charges, with the consequence of imposition of monetary penalties, cancellation of trade certificates and self-registration authorization. Further, the buyers of motor vehicles (“Buyers”) were advised to not comply with the demand for any such charges.

Pursuant to the same, a PIL was filed before the Delhi High Court pertaining to the continued practice of Dealers imposing unauthorized charges on Buyers.

In C Rajaram, Advocate &Ors. v GNCT of Delhi &Ors. : 190 (2012) DLT 569, the High Court of Delhi held:

“The undertakings aforesaid obtained by the respondents No. 1&2 Licensing Authority from the dealers though being widely worded, cannot come in the way of the dealers charging the extras for extra services rendered in connection with sale and which the respondents No. 1&2 are not empowered to control / regulate. Notice may also be taken of the fact that in today's day of aggressive marketing of vehicles and multifarious choices available to the purchasers / consumers, the vehicle dealers giving discounts are not unknown (as also evident from the respondents No. 1&2 making a provision (supra) to that effect) and it is generally seen that the purchasers of vehicles are in a bargaining position with the dealers. If the vehicle dealers are providing any extras in terms of services, goods, fuel etc. to the purchasers and the purchasers agree to pay therefore, in the absence of any law to control the same, this Court cannot issue any direction with respect thereto. We accordingly dispose of this writ petition with the direction that in the event of the respondents No. 1&2 Transport Department / GNCTD receiving any complaint of any vehicle dealer charging anything extra / commission from the vehicle purchaser for providing the services of registration, the respondents No. 1&2 shall enquire into the said complaint and if find any merit therein, shall take action in accordance with law against such vehicle dealers.”

In the absence of explicit legislation, the High Court of Delhi did not provide the necessary clarification sought. Thus while not expressly prohibiting the collection of any excess logistics charges, the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi did not ratify such collection or empower the Dealers to do the same. Further collection of registration charges had to be as prescribed by the relevant rules. However, the Transport Department was authorized to take cognizance of complaints or grievances pertaining to such collection. For obtaining clarity, the PIL was again filed as an SLP before the Hon’ble Supreme Court.



In C Rajaram, Advocate &Ors. v GNCT of Delhi &Ors. SLP No. 26209/2012, the Hon’ble Supreme Court has held:

“Having heard learned counsel for the petitioners, and having perused the impugned order passed by the High Court, we find no justification whatsoever to interfere with the same..”

In Drive Without Borders v Union of India, WP No. 29416 of 2017, the Karnataka High Court held:

“..justice will be subserved if this writ petition is disposed of by granting liberty to the writ petitioner to make a detailed representation ventilating their grievance to the authorities concerned.

If such a representation is made, the authorities shall consider such representation in accordance with law.”

Thus, the Karnataka High Court refrained from laying down the law and making any directions, instead, granting the Petitioners i.e. the NGO leave to represent their grievances before the necessary authority i.e. the Transport Department.

[soumobakshi]

Originally Posted by livetodrive

Extortion of handling charges by Trident Renault

I wonder what do they get by such deceitful method of making money.
A happy customer will bring reference and help in enhancing business and brand value, I wonder why the Bosses at Renault India and Trident Group don't understand the basics.
After Mr.Sumit Suwhney moving out of India no one else had been customer centric in their approach from Renault India.

Trident Automobiles on the other hand with the tag line, "Drive home a Relationship! " Makes me wonder do they even understand the meaning? I wish that Mr. Samir Choudhry & Mr. Vivek Kumar make a note and deliver what they aspire to as a Brand.

[Nalin1]

If you have decided this is the car you want, do not let go of it for this reason!.

Have you heard of this company 'ADJUSTMENT INDIA PVT LTD'? All 1.3 billion people are employees of this company .

Just as so many rules are only on paper and not followed on the ground, this handling charges is one of them (of course I am furious that this is the way it is ).

I suggest that you negotiate hard and squeeze every bit of discount and goodies from them that this handling charges becomes immaterial in the end. Let them retain that for their 'satisfaction', while you also do not feel shortchanged.

Note- I was stunned to see some posts earlier about 11000 being a small amount!

[GBX]

Originally Posted by GTO

The next time you are buying a car, I guess you would be okay with the following nominal amounts?

I understand what you're saying about a slippery slope, but we are only discussing this because it's an explicit line item. If this was lumped into the ex-showroom, as I'm sure some of the items on your list already are, customers wouldn't even think to ask for a discount on that.

IMO transparent, yet "illegal", charges are better than hidden charges.

Originally Posted by bharatbits

Restaurant bill:
Biryani Rs 500
Biryani cooking charge Rs 200
Total Rs 700

This handling charge by Trident Renault appears like that to me.

More like Rs. 5 cooking charge if going by the % in discussion here. Ironically, the generally accepted % for tips is 10-15%, which customers have no issue with.

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Note- I was stunned to see some posts earlier about 11000 being a small amount!

It certainly isn't. But for the largely middle and upper class posters on this forum, esp ones buying 10L+ cars, I'm certain their time is worth a lot more than 11k.

And since many here consider the SC's judgement sacrosanct, how many also condone the modified/sunfilmed cars posted on this forum? Those would be illegal too. It's difficult to truly feel offended by a victimless crime, which "handling charges" are a good example of.

To put it another way, if the dealer agrees to waive the handling charge but reduces a discount he's already given you by the same amount, how many of us would take that deal since it's now perfectly legal?

[GTB]

Originally Posted by GBX

IMO transparent, yet "illegal", charges are better than hidden charges.

This statement doesn't make any sense for any law-abiding citizen

Originally Posted by GBX

More like Rs. 5 cooking charge if going by the % in discussion here. Ironically, the generally accepted % for tips is 10-15%, which customers have no issue with.

I didn't see anyone demanding a tip at any restaurant. It depends on the customer. Its customers wish.

Originally Posted by GBX

And since many here consider the SC's judgement sacrosanct, how many also condone the modified/sunfilmed cars posted on this forum? Those would be illegal too.

I am one of them, but it doesn't mean I break the law.

[Mynameis]

Height of ADAMANCY!

Listened to the audio. High praises to you and your wife for sticking with what is right.

Only reason I can think of is Monopoly. But then SCI is also only one, in the whole of India. This dealer needs to get a taste of its own medicine! I am sure you won't back off after the purchase. This dealer certainly needs a stick from the law.

Even if it was not a SCI order, generally dealers remove this component after haggling a bit. But this dealer is certainly above SCI, rather the dealer owner thinks so!

This dealer has already lost lots of customers, and has thus lost lacs of rupees as Handling charges. Instead of just Rs 11000.
And btw, very good decision to still buy this car. In the end, Car remains the same, irrespective of dealer attitude.

What a rubbish business sense to be ready to lose a customer, who is ready to book the car next morning if this "illegal" charge is waived off! I am sure this dealer would not have thought that one will go to consumer court for a meagre 11k, and I think he still thinks so, otherwise he would have certainly waived off this 11k.

I am going to share this with all my known people who are not on TBHP.

[bharatbits]

Curious to know why is Renault India silent on this? What is their stand? Since, it is a dealer that has been directly appointed by Renault India they will have a certain level of control on the dealer. Some companies are very prompt to act on negative publicity while some act after the damage is done.

If the OP can tweet (if needbe all contributors here retweet) to Renault India and seek a clarification all this drama by the dealership will end immediately.

Originally Posted by GBX

To put it another way, if the dealer agrees to waive the handling charge but reduces a discount he's already given you by the same amount, how many of us would take that deal since it's now perfectly legal?

If waiving the handling charge makes it a perfectly legal deal, then complement of the same hypothesis, i.e including handling charge does it not make it illegal?

It is not a victimless crime. The victim is the buyer and the few hundred dealerships in the country are the beneficiaries. It is like all dealerships forming a cartel and coming up with fictitious charges. To counter balance that we have courts and enforcement agencies.

Imagine the Supreme Court of Australia or USA or UAE passing such a judgement and then do you think any other dealer will dare violating it after that?