[s_pphilip]

The tale of a special City CVT

Quite often we self program ourselves to reach out for the simpler of the options available so that we have bandwidth reserved for more important things and though these so called simple options are within easy reach, there is no compromise and often offers a rich degree of fulfilment or comfort that is associated with those in higher benchmarks.

Take for instance the Decathalon white Yoga Tshirt (200 Rs), its light and natural, whether rains or sunny I love them and the best part is I can buy a bunch when I want or the Goan Fish thali (120 Rs) from next door Goan Spice, Anjuna, it leaves a lingering taste and a sense of completeness matching exquisite dishes.


The simple yet satisfying thali

The joy derived from engaging in these simple options is both pure and relieving. We all do have plenty such examples in our everyday lives.

An extension of this is our 2005 Honda City CVT Automatic, its happy being in the background. A simple automatic, it is allows us to pay attention to other things, example our now 3 year old in the back seat, while the 'City' took care of the task of moving us from A to B in relative comfort, having your left hand free for times to flip open the water bottle or pick some toy from the bag.


Simple ergonomics and easy to judge

Though old this carried most of the virtues intact, a refined engine, robust mechanicals and electricals, acres of space, fuel efficient and friendly to maintain, easy to judge and drive.

Being preowned and primarily picked to assist my wife get a hang of driving, typical of a BHPian, this car was painstakingly brought to a lot better shape than what is was when picked and despite being a few generations behind, it belied its age since it was updated to carry most missing essential features. It had what it required and more, a fresh set of tires, reworked suspension, 2 din Pioneer offering various settings for crisp music, a reverse cam cum dashcam from Amazon, magnetic curtains offering privacy and comfort and ensuring our son wouldn't throw stuff out of the window.

I even got it fully repainted and repeatedly touched up at a couple of places to iron out those spots where the rust was eating up the metal, complete with an underbody coat too.

It hence perfectly aligned with our long term plans, since we didn't miss anything specific as such, the gear shifts were smooth and seamless, the engine silent, the fuel efficiency on average better than my 2008 manual ZX and our 2013 Torque Converter City, most of the drives limited inside 80kmph or steady at 70kmph and often with 1 or occasionally 2 on board, easy to park and easy for a noob driver since the dash isn't high nor the bonnet too long.


From our drive to Kerala last month with both the 2013 AT and 2008 MT

It is a simple car offering simple tastes but it ticked our boxes right, my wife loved the car and used it as an extension of herself, an expression of freedom.

While I used my diesel Swift for most of my errands due to parking convenience, my wife would use the City CVT for her Yoga and Zumba classes pre Covid days.

In short we were looking at it as a long term companion cos we were in a phase where we weren't in any hurry at signals nor wanting something flashy that would need a lot of care, we were comfortable with this City and it gave us no reason to look further.


At Kottayam Vision Honda

As with all our cars I prefer visiting a FNG rather than a ASC since it also allows me to personally supervise the work done, a flexibility I cannot expect at ASC's and hence limit work at ASC's only to the essential or critical periodic maintenance.

Likewise since the CVT is the central focus of this car, I was clear anything even remotely relating to the transmission will be taken care of by the ASC and this is where this happy story has a not so happy twist, prompting me to write here seeking suggestions from BHPians who can shed light as to what can be done now.

To continue and be specific, at approximately 81k kms I got the transmission oil replaced with the local ASC in Goa which is Coastal Honda, Karaswada, the same group earlier also ran the VW and Ford dealerships so have had exposure to all types of cars.

I have always clearly conveyed to them this is a CVT since I read an old post by GTO's long back, though I am not required to suggest to the guys who have been selling Honda's for long and I've been advised by them that the appropriate oil for CVT's is used.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post2958821 (Correct Gear Oil for CVT Transmission)

In parallel for engine oil Honda now fills synthetic hence has a 10 k interval, since the last oil change was done at 89k kms I visited the ASC at 94k kms for a regular check and it was detected that since there is a leak the crank oil seal be changed and accordingly the parts were procured and an appointment sought.

Since I planed to be home in Kerala for Christmas I handed the car on 14th Dec 2020 and picked the car after all the work on 16th Dec, 2020, including oil seal change, spare key and transmission oil top up. The service advisor took feedback at delivery and I rated them 10/10 stating I am fully happy with their service, knowing little about what was to unfold, though I still wish, none of this happened.

I started on 17th Thursday morning with a car packed to its gills with my BIL and a friend who I took along to discuss plans, we covered ground in decent time and post noon were shopping in Dmart, Mangalore, we had a late 4 pm lunch and crossed Kerala border, since evening is the wrong time to enter Kerala due to the commotion on single carriageways we parked near Kasargod for about hour and continued after a short nap.

The day earlier was hot and we were glad we entered Kerala without much hassle and hoped the remaining journey too would be comfortable and uneventful such that we reach home in Pathanamthita by the wee hours next day, it takes about 20 to 24 hours and the plan was to drive over night as I have done so in the past.

The journey from Kasargod to Kannur is usually hectic with too much traffic and since we had the whole night ahead to run this marathon, were in no particular rush allowing others to overtake us and we were lazily moving ahead at about 50kmph to 60 kmph. We were bouncing a bunch of interesting ideas and discussing details when suddenly I noticed the engine was revving with no corresponding input or change in topography, yes no particular reason.


We drove our 3 City's to Kerala for Christmas so we had the mobility, importantly we trust Honda engineering

(I wanted to upload a video of the RPM fluctuation directly but am not sure how to, will figure it and do it separately)

It was random but cyclic and then back to normal. Within a couple of hours the rate increased to a easily noticeable level which is when the others felt it too. Also what started in the range of 200 rpms were now fluctuating in the range of about 500 rpms.

So for instance if I hold the car steady at 60kmph which corresponds to about 1500rpms, the engine was fluctuating back and forth between 1300 to 1800 rpms with no difference in the speed, it felt almost like someone riding the clutch to avoid down shifting, only that here there is no clutch, however the car had that typical associated jump each cycle like releasing the clutch, at one point I smelt rubber burning and stopped.

Though perplexed and petrified, our decision was to move as close home since we had about 400kms and too much stuff in the car. Moreover my friend had his IELTS exam scheduled on Saturday Dec 19th so we had to reach Cochin in the least.

My first thought was the oil seal wasn't fixed well and it leaked from the chamber thereby maybe heating the belt and cones. I pulled over to look under and though there was fresh traces of oil on the underbelly it wasn't dripping or too wet nor was there a oil trail. Post Kozhikode traffic thinned and by the time we were crossing Thrissur this eccentric behavior was occurring at an exaggerated, annoying degree and pace but I drove ahead on a hope and prayer.

We continued through the night but added long halts every 2 hours assuming it would allow the transmission to cool and after getting home late morning and sleeping through the day, booked an appointment for the 19th at Vision Honda, Kottayam.

During the test drive I was able to show what was happening and the service advisor said I need not look at the RPM meter and drive, I explained I felt the RPM is a truer indicator than speed and moreover there is a corresponding push in your back each of those cycles. I also explained the work done and showed him the bill when he exclaimed with a startle that the oil used is wrong.


What the manual mentions but casually refers to as only ATF

This shocked me, almost getting me cold sweat. Oil wrong, pardon me. He said what I know in theory, the CVT oil should carry the description mentioning CVT on the bill rather than ATF, now this got me further confused since I was told by ASC, Mapusa that technically the oil they used in the car is the Honda CVT recommended oil and everything is referred to as ATF as per Honda standards.

After getting off, he fetched a CVT oil can and showed that the CVT oil is transparent yellow and the ATF used is wine red. I didn't have to think hard, I asked him to change the oil immediately, having to pay for new oil though for no fault of mine, my immediate worry was about the long term damage caused and he mentioned that though he does not have much exposure to CVT maintenance, they are indeed very sensitive to oil used and softly admitted that Goa Honda guys did a massive goof up.


ATF fluid topped up since it was replaced at 81k kms

This oil change did nothing to reduce my worry as the problem persists though I perceive it to have slightly reduced and though I now have the correct oil I am not sure what is the probable damage caused by the ATF oil filled twice at 81k kms and at 95k kms. Of course no one can say with certainty since the service advisor said the damage could be anything about 30 to 50% or more.


New CVT fluid after getting to Kerala

I missed an opportunity to once cross check the transmission oil with fellow BHPian Nachiket from Manic Mechanic, Panjim but the reason I reached him was a vibration I thought was due to the transmission, however it was later identified to be from a support member under the radiator that was bent hence vibrating, it was fixed by my FNG and the car ran butter smooth hence never had to visit Nachiket, maybe we would have identified oil issue earlier had I meet him but due to Covid I deemed it unnecessary.

What surprises me is Honda being a company with plenty business philosophies in place and famed for

its reliability and engineering, how can they design processes with scope for such simple but expensive errors, aren't there system alerts, moreover when Honda's has CVT's in almost every car, how is it the folks on the floor aren't updated or are not taught the correct correlation, as a customer with 10 other things running in the mind, after cross questioning and ensuring I get a affirmative reply, I assumed we deal with knowledgeable folks.


Both Honda and both Idemitsu

I messaged my service advisor in Goa and he wants me to drive back so they can check. That's about 1000kms back, 2 days of exhaustion and about 10k in travel expenses. I am not certain which way to turn, is there some one who can advice me on CVT's with certainty, I am not sure whether the guys who aren't sure of the oil can repair a CVT now.


Wine red ATF vs transparent CVT fluid

Please suggest what I could do to rescue my car, I wouldn't be happy to let it go like this, if I find some reliable CVT expert from MH, KA, GA or KL who can cross check and logically explain, it will give me some comfort. Looking forward to a lot of helpful suggestions. Thanks in anticipation.

[s_pphilip]

Do suggest of specialist places you know preferably in MH, GA, KL or KA where they have worked on CVT's successfully, so I can take a parallel opinion or even advice on what can be done.

I read more about it it doesn't really look good so need some confidence from you guys, I know it will be rare but from some one who has faced something similar and sorted it.
I am digging for more information and came across the following links.

https://community.cartalk.com/t/atf-...ission/73309/8

https://blog.japanesecartrade.com/wh...-transmission/

https://www-picknbuy24-com.cdn.amppr...olumn_349.html

Also some one in India who claims to repair AT's but Honda's aren't mentioned on his site:

https://sehmbi.in/skoda-automatic-tr...-malad-mumbai/

I believe there must be few who work on these things as well, considering we have folks who work on every other aspect.

I feel there must be some BHPian who will have figured some way out. Hopefully we connect, thank you.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

The tale of a special City CVT
====
Please suggest what I could do to rescue my car, I wouldn't be happy to let it go like this, if I find some reliable CVT expert from MH, KA, GA or KL who can cross check and logically explain, it will give me some comfort. Looking forward to a lot of helpful suggestions. Thanks in anticipation.

Sorry to hear this, but unfortunately it is an issue. Sharing a detailed article that explains.

https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-h...uid-in-my-car/

Car transmissions are delicate mechanisms.

Each car has its own recommendations from the manufacturer on which transmission fluid your car needs. Some transmission fluids are very incompatible with different transmission types as they use different additives in the fluids. Your car transmission needs the correct fluid, as specified by your car manufacturer, to run correctly and to the fullest length of life.

While it’s not uncommon for someone to mix up which fluids should go in their car, putting the wrong transmission fluid in your car could be your vehicles fast pass to an early grave.

Types of Transmission Fluid
There are several different variables to take into account when it comes to transmission fluid. You first must know if your car requires automatic or manual transmission fluid. Then determine if your car is an automatic transmission if it has a continuously variable transmission. You should always follow your manufactures specifications on which fluid is right for your car.
Related: What is Transmission Fluid?

Automatic Transmission Fluid vs. Continuously Variable Transmission Fluid
Hand pouring transmission fluid through funnel as for the good car maintenance

Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

Automatic transmission fluid is fluid that is used in cars that have automatic (self-shifting) transmissions. This fluid is optimized for use in automatic gearboxes that consist of a hydraulic pump, gears, disks, and bands.

Continuously Variable Transmission Fluid (CVT)

A continuously variable transmission is a type of automatic transmission vehicle. This type of transmission can change seamlessly through a continuous range of gears. It is able to do this by running on a series of pulleys connected with a steal band, rather than a fixed set of gears. CVT transmissions require CVT fluid. This fluid has friction modifiers that allow the belts to grip the pulleys.

What Happens if You Use the Wrong Transmission Fluid
The most common situation where the wrong transmission fluid is used is in the case of using automatic transmission fluid in place of variable transmission fluid and vice versa. Adding ATF to a to a CVT will eventually result in the death of your transmission.

Warning Signs
There are a few warning signs that you can look for to indicate that you have used the wrong fluid in your transmission including:
Strange engine sounds such as clunking
Stalling after changing gears
Gears that won’t shift
Rough shifting
Gears that slip
Clutch locking up

So How Long Do I Have?
If you accidentally put ATF into a CTV the rate at which it will die is directly related to the ratio of fluids. In a CVT transmission, it is impossible to drain all of the CVT fluid. If you have accidentally added ATF, your transmission would then contain a mixture of ATF and CVT fluids. Your CVT transmission will still function for a period of time since it is a mixture of both fluids and there will still be enough friction for the CVT transmission to work for a while. Eventually, however, permanent damage will occur and you have to rebuild your transmission.

What to Do If You’ve Used the Wrong Transmission Fluid
If you have used the wrong transmission fluid you will need to remove that fluid as soon as possible to try to minimize the amount of damage to your transmission. If your car has already been driving with the wrong fluid for many miles it is possible you will need to replace your transmission outright as too much damage has already been done.

Transmission Flush vs Transmission Change

Transmission Change
In a transmission change (sometimes known as transmission service) the transmission fluid pan is drained and the filter is replaced. Transmission changes do NOT remove all of the transmission fluid from the car and often times up to half of the fluid can remain. If you have contaminated your transmission fluid with the wrong fluid, this is not going to be the right choice for your car as the new fluid will simple get contaminated by the remaining old fluid.

Transmission Flush
Drain the old used transmission fluid before adding the new as for the good car maintenanceA transmission flush is where all of the old fluid from your transmission is removed via a cooler line flush machine or pump inlet flush machine. Once all of the old fluid has been removed, entirely new transmission fluid is added. In the situation where you have put the wrong transmission fluid into your car, a transmission flush is going to be a better option than a transmission change.

Next steps you can try - Since you have already replaced the oil, my suggestion is to do one more drain and refill with new oil after about 100 km (EDIT- Even 20kms should be enough) of driving. That would ensure at least the box has good CVT oil back in it. And hopefully that sorts the issues.

If the issue still persists, you will have to see how the Goa dealer can help you with a new box, maybe at a discounted price and on good will. Next option is to source a used box from an accident vehicle.

I have not come across anyone reliable who can rebuild these boxes, and had to throw away the Santro AT which had done just 50k km.

[Aditya]

Do as Jaggu has suggested. If the problem is still persists, you shouldn't drive the car. Truck it to the Goa workshop and ask for a replacement transmission. It was this workshop that messed up things in the first place. Try to cut down the price as much as possible. If it is still working out to be expensive, you might be better off selling the vehicle considering its age.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by Aditya

It was this workshop that messed up things in the first place...... considering its age.

Thanks Aditya, The age of the car is on paper, it still works like a charm, moreover these initial lots had a lot of quality components from Thailand I think but yes, you have your point.
In fact it is among our favorites at home for it personifies the fill it, shut it, forget it types.

I spoke to the service team at Goa ASC and they said this is what they usually and always do, so much for Japanese philosophies and attention to detail.
With Honda CVT focused portfolio I would have though they have system alerts in bold.
I had to explain on a long call why this specific oil matters for a CVT and why its different from a TC based on what I read.
I was stumped when one said there's 2 kinds, AMT and the rest all in one kind.
Thank God Honda doesn't have DSG's yet here cos either they don't think it exists or that its different.
Looks like they only read the sales brochures for home work.

I am assuming there will be many CVT owners in Goa who could be looking at this issue, it's just that most won't notice in their daily running of 20kms. A specific filter question to add for pre owned cars here.
I wonder what about the Amaze Diesel with CVT, since those must be owners who drive a lot, assuming City petrol AT owners don't.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Sorry to hear this, but unfortunately it is an issue. Sharing a detailed article that explains.

https://www.aamcocolorado.com/what-h...uid-in-my-car/



Next steps you can try - Since you have already replaced the oil, my suggestion is to do one more drain and refill with new oil after about 100 km (EDIT- Even 20kms should be enough) of driving. That would ensure at least the box has good CVT oil back in it. And hopefully that sorts the issues.

If the issue still persists, you will have to see how the Goa dealer can help you with a new box, maybe at a discounted price and on good will. Next option is to source a used box from an accident vehicle.

..... and had to throw away the Santro AT which had done just 50k km.

Thank you Jaggu for that clarity, appreciate it. So are you implying you tried rebuilding your Santro AT. What was the original issue and what happened later.

Well I am not certain where to find one to retro fit and whether it will work fine.
I shall talk to them about giving me a replacement if it persists, fingers crossed.

That article shared mentions about flushing the entire contents using a pump.
These Honda guys at both ASC's do not know of any such pump.
They suggest that I drain and refill to average it out.
The reservoir contains about 5.5 or 5.7 liters and they drain about 3.7 liters leaving 2 liters in reserve inaccessible according to them so its best to average it but doing this repeatedly.

No one at Honda knows what needs to be done, Vision Honda, Kerala had earlier told me to regularly use it till Jan and then change oil suggesting it may get resolved probably once the refilled oil circulates. Assuming 2 liters of the 6 liters in the sump is cherry wine ATF, approximately 35% is inappropriate oil, that's still a lot.
After having driven 1k kms on totally the wrong stuff.

Of course given to understand how critical it is, I shall try and get it done tomorrow itself at Kottayam. My Christmas vacation has trouble shooting destined thanks to Goa Honda.

[hserus]

You could drain the oil a bit more by removing the oil pan - you'll get rid of around 75% of the wrong fluid that way. Refill with the CVT fluid.

Escalate to Honda - transmission damage because a dealer filled the wrong fluid is something they'll have to address on goodwill basis.

[gkveda]

Luckily you have invoice stating clearly that they have filled wrong fluid. You can use this evidence and write to Honda about the mistake dealership has committed and seek a remedy.

The dealer is responsible for the mistake and hence, they have to rectify it with whatever it takes. So, suggest to not approach them for resolution at goodwill.

They will have to resolve this issue as a responsible dealership.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Thank you Jaggu for that clarity, appreciate it. So are you implying you tried rebuilding your Santro AT. What was the original issue and what happened later.

I could not find anyone who was confident about the rebuild, so never pursued. Similarly a colleagues car was in cochin for about 1 year but he also could not complete the build due to parts unavailability and finally sold it off. That car was just 30k kms old.

Well I am not certain where to find one to retro fit and whether it will work fine.
I shall talk to them about giving me a replacement if it persists, fingers crossed.

If you find same model CVT box, it is straight swap.

That article shared mentions about flushing the entire contents using a pump.

Yes it is a specialised unit, maybe some high end workshops may have. But even I have not seen in India.

These Honda guys at both ASC's do not know of any such pump.
They suggest that I drain and refill to average it out.

Yes this is the best bet, drain and refill. While draining keep a look at the color, if it is pale red you can do one change and should be good to go. If its darker, more number of changes are required.

Originally Posted by hserus

You could drain the oil a bit more by removing the oil pan - you'll get rid of around 75% of the wrong fluid that way. Refill with the CVT fluid.

Unless they have the packings and filter, don't do this. It will be painful if leaks pop up. Also Goa dealer might make that as an excuse to wash hands off.

[Maverick Avi]

Oil changes at ASCs are a disaster waiting to happen IMHO. In today's world where these ISO XXXX, TCQ etc certified ASCs usually do not let customers watch their cars being serviced, you are the mercy of the technician who randomly ticks the "certified" checklist post moving the car to next bay. India has adopted most of global quality practices but unfortunately there is not a very strong culture of following them at ground level. I feel that oil change goof ups regarding grade, quality, brands etc happen quite frequently but in your case the end result proved to be catastrophic and hence I really feel for you.

I always prefer to research the recommended oils for all my vehicles and confirm from SAs that which brand and grade would they be using. Finally I check my invoice to confirm what was actually used. If work is done at FNG then it makes the life easier as you can easily check the oil container for specifications.

This post is quite an eye opener regarding the impact of incorrect transmission oil for autoboxes.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Unless they have the packings and filter, don't do this. It will be painful if leaks pop up. Also Goa dealer might make that as an excuse to wash hands off.

The filter is often a cleanable metal / mesh one - not sure what it is in Hondas. Also both packing and filter should be in the Honda parts catalog. Check with the Goa or Kerala dealer and definitely do this once the relevant parts are available and the correct grade of cvt fluid is available.

Originally Posted by Maverick Avi

If work is done at FNG then it makes the life easier as you can easily check the oil container for specifications.

Check whatever oil, lube, coolant etc specs you need to replace and buy them yourself. It is as simple as looking at your manual for the correct specification and recommended alternatives and searching google / amazon for compatible brands.

[nirmaljusdoit]

As its a mistake committed by Honda dealer, immediately register a complaint with Honda and copy to the goa dealer. Flatbed your car to Goa if required (on dealer cost) and use the drain and fill method.

Check your owners manual what it says about filling CVT fluid and follow those instructions.

From what you have described, some damage has already been done to your transmission. You may want to pursue a complete replacement with the dealer as you have all proof of the same.

Hondas are extremely sensitive to incorrect transmission fluid used and should only be replaced by Honda fluids.

[kmasthan]

Since it is a mistake committed at Honda service center tow the car to the same service center with complaint to Honda. It is their responsibility to return the car in the same good condition if not better.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by hserus

You could drain the oil a bit more by removing the oil pan - ....

Escalate to Honda - .....

Any suggestions on how to reach them (Honda) and convey strongly.

I'll talk to the dealer about removing the oil pan. Not sure whether they'll oblige.
I've currently asked my Honda Goa dealer to adjust all the expenses for oil changed multiple times in my next bill on any of the other cars. So I think the ASC works better for now. Thanks Hserus.

Originally Posted by gkveda

Luckily you have invoice stating clearly that they have filled wrong fluid. You can use this evidence and write to Honda about the mistake dealership has committed and seek a remedy.

The dealer is responsible for the mistake and hence, they have to rectify it with whatever it takes. So, suggest to not approach them for resolution at goodwill.

They will have to resolve this issue as a responsible dealership.

Can you guide me on how to proceed if I have to escalate to Honda. I'll appreciate all inputs, thanks gkveda.

Yeah hoping they resolve on goodwill, with incidents like this it appears Honda is slowly losing the plot in India.

I'm surprised these simple expensive errors still happen even after being around for 2 decades

Originally Posted by Jaggu

.....

If you find same model CVT box, it is straight swap.

Yes this is the best bet, drain and refill. While draining keep a look at the color, if it is pale red you can do one change and should be good to go. If its darker, more number of changes are required.

Unless they have the packings and filter, don't do this. It will be painful if leaks pop up. Also Goa dealer might make that as an excuse to wash hands off.

Good valuable simple tip, I'll watch for the color. Thanks Jaggu.

As back up where do I search or ask around for a used CVT, any suggestions.

Originally Posted by Maverick Avi

Oil changes at ASCs are a disaster waiting to happen ....

I always prefer to research the recommended oils for all my vehicles and confirm from SAs that which brand and grade would they be using. Finally I check my invoice to confirm what was actually used. If work is done at FNG then it makes the life easier as you can easily check the oil container for specifications.

This post is quite an eye opener regarding the impact of incorrect transmission oil for autoboxes.

Thanks Maverick, I agree and echo this, since you aren't anywhere near the car unlike FNG's, it's a black hole, going by what the ASC states rather than what you see and believe.

I just went by the assurance when they said they used the right oil for CVT's. I just realised there a huge gap in asking for the right thing and getting the right thing done even with ASC's.

Originally Posted by hserus

The filter is often a cleanable metal / mesh one - not sure what it is in Hondas. Also both packing and filter should be in the Honda parts catalog. Check with the Goa or Kerala dealer and definitely do this once the relevant parts are available and the correct grade of cvt fluid is available.

Check whatever oil, lube, coolant etc specs you need to replace and buy them yourself. It is as simple as looking at your manual for the correct specification and recommended alternatives and searching google / amazon for compatible brands.

Thank you Hserus, For now I'll get as much oil swapped by ASC since I've got a verbal agreement with Honda Goa that they'll pay me or adjust the costs for swapping oil.
Moreover I don't know of any FNG that works with CVT's.

The technician who drained and refilled the oil should have at least realised the color difference in both, would have saved us all a lot of trouble.

Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit

As its a mistake committed by Honda dealer, immediately register a complaint with Honda and copy to the goa dealer. Flatbed your car to Goa if required (on dealer cost) and use the drain and fill method.

Check your owners manual what it says about filling CVT fluid and follow those instructions.

From what you have described, some damage has already been done to your transmission. You may want to pursue a complete replacement with the dealer as you have all proof of the same.

Hondas are extremely sensitive to incorrect transmission fluid used and should only be replaced by Honda fluids.

Thanks Nirmal, on the contrary, I think Honda's are quite robust, at least the older ones, it's the workmanship that's not up to mark.
The car ran for about 15k kms with the wrong oil and its only in the kerala trip the issue raised its head.

Originally Posted by kmasthan

Since it is a mistake committed at Honda service center tow the car to the same service center with complaint to Honda. It is their responsibility to return the car in the same good condition if not better.

Yeah hope Honda is serious about its Indian customers and approach.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Look for scrap vehicle with same CVT gearbox / vehicle model range. Do it through Honda dealer only.

Do dealerships support these requests, salvaging scrapped parts, never heard of this before. Thanks for another tip Jaggu.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by hserus

Also both packing and filter should be in the Honda parts catalog. Check with the Goa or Kerala dealer and definitely do this once the relevant parts are available and the correct grade of cvt fluid is available.\

99% chances Honda dealer will have no clue or availability. This is India, anything more than oil change is unlikely to be supported by a dealer, unless some assistance from the factory is provided.

Anyhow unless the Goa dealer agrees, DO NOT make any changes apart from putting oil through another dealer. Or else it will become a blame game with no one taking responsibility. I really Goa dealer should help you with shipping the car over to them.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

As back up where do I search or ask around for a used CVT, any suggestions.

Look for scrap vehicle with same CVT gearbox / vehicle model range. Do it through Honda dealer only.

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by hserus

Escalate to Honda - transmission damage because a dealer filled the wrong fluid is something they'll have to address on goodwill basis.

Originally Posted by nirmaljusdoit

As its a mistake committed by Honda dealer, immediately register a complaint with Honda and copy to the goa dealer. Flatbed your car to Goa if required (on dealer cost) and use the drain and fill method.

Originally Posted by kmasthan

Since it is a mistake committed at Honda service center tow the car to the same service center with complaint to Honda. It is their responsibility to return the car in the same good condition if not better.

Not to be pessimistic, but given my experience of escalating service issues with Honda (Both 4 and 2 wheelers), all you get from the corporate is a standard e-mail auto reply. No action is ever taken. This combined with the sales figures, product portfolio and closure of Noida plant is a good indication of how serious Honda is about customer satisfaction in India.

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Any suggestions on how to reach them (Honda) and convey strongly.

.........

Can you guide me on how to proceed if I have to escalate to Honda. I'll appreciate all inputs, thanks gkveda.

Yeah hoping they resolve on goodwill, with incidents like this it appears Honda is slowly losing the plot in India.

I'm surprised these simple expensive errors still happen even after being around for 2 decades

...........

Yeah hope Honda is serious about its Indian customers and approach.
.

Consider yourself lucky as you were able to consult a Honda service station in KL. My relatives in KL tell me that Honda service is pretty good there with knowledgeable SAs and technicians.

In contrast, I asked for a brake and transmission fluid replacement on my 2015 Honda city petrol MT, here in Rajamundry, A.P. and the service advisor coolly told me that "...they don't need to be replaced till 60K on ODO, irrespective of the age". With a drive to Kerala in the next week, I didn't want to force these guys to attempt a brake bleeding exercise and make the existing setup worse.

Do let me know if you are able to resolve this with Honda, as my past attempts at raising bad quality service has just fell on deaf ears.