[GrammarNazi]

Great. Honda & Toyota are known to have CVTs that are very reliable in the long term. Honda authorised service center mixing up the ATF is really quite something. Does the transmission still seem to be slipping ? I generally find it unnecessary to flush transmission fluid, rather than dislodge tiny amount of crud stuck in nooks/cravices, sufficient to just change AT fluid about 10% before recommended time IMO. Anyway, hope not much is lost, keep us updated incase you're facing issues.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

Great. Honda & Toyota are known to have CVTs that are very reliable in the long term. Honda authorised service center mixing up the ATF is really quite something. Does the transmission still seem to be slipping ? I generally find it unnecessary to flush transmission fluid, rather than dislodge tiny amount of crud stuck in nooks/cravices, sufficient to just change AT fluid about 10% before recommended time IMO. Anyway, hope not much is lost, keep us updated incase you're facing issues.

Well it's a mixed feeling, I'm relatively relieved but still worried. The fluctuation reduced by about 75 %, where the RPM fluctuation was in the range about 400 rpm, now it's in the range about 100 rpm. But it's there. Not gone yet but positive signs of improvement. And then there's this very, very faint whine now compared to, previous silence. Jerin is of the opinion it could get smoother with another swap. God knows.

Hope my Honda comes out successful through this test, my Honda CBR 250 repsol runs about once in a quarter and it always is smooth. I trust Honda engineering.

Originally Posted by hserus

Great. Was the oil pan removed to drain the maximum and then were the filters and packing removed and replaced? You probably need to replace the filter anyway due to filling with the wrong oil grade.

Thanks Hserus for your guidance through out, the pan wasn't removed, in addition they just blew air through the dip stick / inlet channel so about 50ml was collected in the tray. They didn't sound too comfortable with the idea to remove the pan. Moreover it was just about closing time, so they changed oil since I requested Jerin to help me today.

[hserus]

Change the filters and packing after removing the oil pan, it will get a lot better. I picked up an old i10 that had gone 8 years without changing the atf fluid and the gears sounded rough. Drained it entirely, changed the filter and packing and refilled a compatible liqui moly atf fluid and it became smooth as silk.

[TorqueIndia]

This is a very unfortunate incident . If you had not used the car much post the fluid change it would have been easier with multiple flushing and filter change. Since the car was already driven for such a long distance and confronted with abnormal behaviours, get the parts thoroughly checked.
It's a common incident in GCC among the taxi operators as they use wide variety of brands and transmissions, and they mess up the CVTs with FNGs.

I personally had done something like this , it was not a CVT , but with a torque converter unit. While I was working with Mitsubishi ASS I had supplied normal engine oil instead of ATF for a Pajero and ended up replacing the transmission. Both products cans looked similar and was kept together in the same rack and it happened in a busy evening.

The negligence from my side created a huge mess for the customer , as the viscosity and thermal properties are totally different. The car became stuck at gear as the oil supplied was more viscous and ended up clogging the valve body which acts as the muscles of the unit. It was a 10year old car and luckily the garage people found a complete scrap unit for replacement and I paid for it, the case was settled.

Try to squeeze the dealers, make it repaired and checked . Flushing process requires a lot of fluids, manpower and time which could be affordable only for dealerships and the inspection of CVT will be another challenge.

Better get the car back in manageble condition and sell it off.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by hserus

Change the filters and packing after removing the oil pan, it will get a lot better. I picked up an old i10 that had gone 8 years without changing the atf fluid and the gears sounded rough. Drained it entirely, changed the filter and packing and refilled a compatible liqui moly atf fluid and it became smooth as silk.

Reassuring, to hear, I'll insist in my next change to replace the filter, thanks again Hresus.

Drove a bit today morning about, 25 kms, the whine though faint is clearly audible above 70 and sharper at 80kmph, this now is a strong area of concern. Didn't get a chance to go above 80kmph.

There's a wee bit reluctance while up shifting, despite CVT there's defined ratios it engages so while downshifting appeared to be fine, it would hold gear hesitantly to rev slightly more before moving to the next.

The fluctuations have subsided to a minimum which could slip by unnoticed. Looks like it held itself fairly well through this ordeal, but too early to comment.

Need to get the crank oil seal fixed again once back.

The old models don't have a tip tronic stick to manually feed suggestions to the auto box.

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

.... Since the car was already driven for such a long distance and confronted with abnormal behaviours, get the parts thoroughly checked.
It's a common incident in GCC among the taxi operators as they use wide variety of brands and transmissions, and they mess up the CVTs with FNGs.
....

People like you aren't too common around, you took accountability and helped get the resolution to finality. These go a long way in keeping you self uncompromised, I value and appreciate such.

My worry too stems from the 16k kms amounting to abuse, initial 15k with about 71% contamination and another 1.2k kms with about 82% contamination.

Testimony to Honda engineering, despite the chunk of it being the wrong oil, the initial 15k kms, the car kind off ran absolutely fine, maybe there were signs but we may not have noticed during our daily short runs.

With Honda Idemitsu the cans have different colors, moreover CVT's are a significant product in their portfolio so I'm surprised there still is substantial ignorance.

[d_himan]

My 2 cents from my personal experience with a Torque Converter rebuild in my Accord.

1. 4 Drain and Refills expunge 99%+ of the old fluid. "Fill, Drive for 10km, Drain, Fill" routine 4 times. Hopefully this would work.

2. Forget about a new CVT unless Honda bankrolls it. You're looking at a 3.75-4 lac bill.

3. CVTs are notoriously tough to rebuild unlike Torque Converter s/DSGs (FNG + Honda feedback) . If the transmission doesn't behave well post step 1, I'd strongly recommend selling the car - don't throw good money (and time) after bad.

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by d_himan

My 2 cents from my personal experience with a Torque Converter rebuild in my Accord.

1. 4 Drain and Refills expunge 99%+ of the old fluid. "Fill, Drive for 10km, Drain, Fill" routine 4 times. Hopefully this would work.

2. Forget about a new CVT unless Honda bankrolls it. You're looking at a 3.75-4 lac bill.

3. CVTs are notoriously tough to rebuild unlike Torque Converter s/DSGs (FNG + Honda feedback) . If the transmission doesn't behave well post step 1, I'd strongly recommend selling the car - don't throw good money (and time) after bad.

Yeah that's the plan, if it was just a handful of kms the story could be different, unfortunately I realized there's wrong oil after 16k kms, a lot of abuse, thanks to the trust on the ASC, wiser now.

I don't intend to invest time or money beyond a point, one of the options I've on my list is selling it off with a heavy heart.
Of course not without pursuing the available options.

[MobileThunder]

Talking of available options to escalate, have you tried LinkedIn? I had an issue with my Tiago AMT and actually wrote a Linkedin message using the InMail option to the Head Customer Care in Tata Motors and he redirected it to the regional head, and they actually followed up with me till the closure of the complaint.
Hope your CVT gets better.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Attachment 2096897

Thanks to Jaggu's tip, (cheers Jaggu) watched it, the oil is still cherry red. No shavings or fillings stuck to the magnetic nut though, clean oil, just wrong grade. Will do it hence once or twice more.

Once more and you should be sorted with the oil mix to a good extend, already it has thinned out more than 50%. Can you ask the dealership to check with Honda factory if any of the showrooms nearby or en route to Goa has an automated machine to drain and refill these transmissions?

[s_pphilip]

Thanks all my friends here, did another round yesterday, added 3.2 litres fresh CVT oil after draining that much.

Had to show Vision, Thrissur the oil can used earlier at Vision, Kottayam so he understood what I referred to.



Couldn't click pictures on time when the drain plug was opened as I couldn't react fast enough.



Went for a longish drive so I could drive on inclines and level roads, varying conditions.

Thankfully the car behaved well, testimony to Honda engineering.

It was a bit dim witted while climbing hills but else it drove fine.

I'm certain there'll be some damage I'll have to accept but hopefully it isn't severe.

Hopefully it'll be fine. Will update after covering more ground.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Attachment 2098995

Thanks all my friends here, did another round yesterday, added 3.2 litres fresh CVT oil after draining that much.

Oil atleast seems to be becoming clear and more of CVT spec, hopefully car will run decently now on. Do keep us posted.

[kmasthan]

Originally Posted by govindremesh

Not to be pessimistic, but given my experience of escalating service issues with Honda (Both 4 and 2 wheelers), all you get from the corporate is a standard e-mail auto reply. No action is ever taken. This combined with the sales figures, product portfolio and closure of Noida plant is a good indication of how serious Honda is about customer satisfaction in India.




Consider yourself lucky as you were able to consult a Honda service station in KL. My relatives in KL tell me that Honda service is pretty good there with knowledgeable SAs and technicians.

In contrast, I asked for a brake and transmission fluid replacement on my 2015 Honda city petrol MT, here in Rajamundry, A.P. and the service advisor coolly told me that "...they don't need to be replaced till 60K on ODO, irrespective of the age". With a drive to Kerala in the next week, I didn't want to force these guys to attempt a brake bleeding exercise and make the existing setup worse.

Do let me know if you are able to resolve this with Honda, as my past attempts at raising bad quality service has just fell on deaf ears.

Well I dont mean to say that it will give result right away. You will create record to prove that they have not responded which will help in further actions untl there is result. 😊❗

[s_pphilip]

I've put up a review for Coastal Honda on Google.

Since we had tasks at hand and our immediate family went ahead with the purchase of a property that was listed on home style, this of course took precedence over everything else. The whole idea of having a car at our disposal was so we could proceed with other important plans while reducing our exposure and ensuring baby is comfortable. So coupled with covid travel restrictions, we had our return trip to Goa on hold till this week.

We chose to leave baby back in Kerala and me and my wife took up this arduous journey that took a good part of 2.5 days to get across due to the car going from bad to worse.

It started okay but about 200/250 kms into the return journey, the violent RPM fluctuations started and got worse, we would periodically stop and start again after a break. Each km covered with prayers and rapid heart beats.

To say it was stressful is an understatement. We had at least a dozen heart in the mouth instances.
It's a testimony of the mechanical superiority of Honda that we got home without any major incident.

We had to get it back to Goa cos the Honda ASC's in Kerala adviced that it's best that the issue is raised and resolution attempted with Coastal Honda in Goa.
Coastal Honda adviced that they would like to check the car before sharing an opinion.

Before this return trip I changed the transmission oil twice and also stocked up on this oil. While it was more or less performing fine on short runs, I'm guessing extended journeys bring the worst in it.

Important to note is Perfect Honda, which is the oldest in Kerala, after changing this oil had a calibration run for the transmission and the procedure is a short spin with your lights on, whatever it does, I'm not sure, one of the strangest calibration methods.

Secondly they used the actual CVT oil which is recommended for this specific car since they said the other one is just as a stop gap arrangement.
I'll highly recommend Aneesh there, though short an interaction, he seemed to understand CVT's better than everyone else I met, but it's just an initial opinion, however I felt Honda has a step motherly attitude towards AT's much like Maruti's.

At Coastal Honda the service manager said he'll check the engine first and then the transmission, though I did convey vision mentioned the engine is fine since it works great until D is engaged, maybe their process of trial and elimination. He confessed they aren't well versed with CVT's and everything is part of their learning curve.

This is where I think Honda fails its Indian customers, either they aren't serious about automatics in Indian market and are happy selling Activa's or they have no clue how to handle this market, either ways, it's sad for a company with technically competent products but with a weak team in India.

I shall upload the pictures of the two oil changes done and pictures of the right oil with part number and related bills. Keeping fingers crossed, I've clearly told Coastal manager that he shouldn't expect me to pay for the mess they created, not a dime, moreover since I've already spent 10k+ on oil changes every 800 / 900 or so kms.

I didn't buy his logic either where he said that the clutch of the automatic is different from CVT unit, I asked him whether he's referring to the TC and he's like, hmmn yeah, but not exactly. So I said it's okay I understand what you are referring to but it's all the same and in case that isn't put back in place when you'll removed it to replace the crank oil seal, why should it be my head ache.

I'm told by another friendly mechanic that they may not have fit the torque converter right after removal which is why this happens, well the car now is at Coastal and bottom line, I want it exactly the same way it was when I gave it to them.

My Swift diesel which has crossed 2 lakh kms takes me where ever I want to go so why should a supposedly superior Honda not perform well for even half that, our Skoda diesel too works fine despite unusual long idle breaks. Please God, help my car.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by s_pphilip

Before this return trip I changed the transmission oil twice and also stocked up on this oil. While it was more or less performing fine on short runs, I'm guessing extended journeys bring the worst in it.

Means you drained a few hundred ml and topped up two or three times? Or did a full drain, replaced the transmission fluid with a new filter and packing and this still recurred?

[s_pphilip]

Originally Posted by hserus

Means you drained a few hundred ml and topped up two or three times? Or did a full drain, replaced the transmission fluid with a new filter and packing and this still recurred?

It's just draining what comes out due to gravity and topping up, though this is what they refer to as transmission oil replacement.
Since I didn't have the liberty to visit an independent workshop to check whether they have specific tools as it wouldn't be helpful if I need to take it up with ASC, Goa, I relied completely on accessible Honda workshops, however to increase my chances positively I visited 4 different work shops in Kerala, to gather their feedback / opinion and check if they do something in the process, differently.

None of these work shops including the oldest in Kerala, Perfect, have any mechanism or tool which can drain the contents entirely, they aren't aware of any such process either, let alone tool. Honda hasn't trained anyone on CVT's so while Honda folks may know well how to go about engine oil change, most are uncomfortable when it's CVT oil, they don't want to complicate it for themselves either, so prefer that the customer figure it out elsewhere.

For instance I visited Vision Honda, Pathanamthita and after explaining in brief they didn't even want to change oil stating no oil in stock, despite Vision Kottayam directing me there.
I could see Honda is in a mess with respect to automatics. Everyone's polite and sounds customer centric but it's good only till the car breaks down.

I think it's safer to choose cars where their manufacturers endorse their product line up so if your car is complex, better to pick a car where major products or popular products are similar and significant part of their portfolio, at least increases the service guys exposure.

Back to point, to put the math here, the reservoir contains about 2.7 litres in residual balance after draining and accepts about 3 litres as replacement, totaling 5.7 litres all in approximates. I replaced oil 5 times hence to average it.