Need help with concorde motors service problem

ajeeshonly · 1st September 2010, 15:47

Hello All,

I have been a regular reader at tbhp eventhough I don't post anything. Now the time has come to post because of a haunting problem I have with the fiat dealer Concorde Motors in Bangalore. Please let me know if I am on the side of justice or not.

Scene 1:
For a second car, I purchased a second hand fiat palio stile SDX vehicle August 2008 model, 20K kms run, in May 2010. The car was in a very good condition, other than the clutch was hard and the gear shift was right. It gave me 19kmpl milage at the time of purchase. I had taken it from Coimbatore, and since I live in Bangalore, showed it at the service station as soon as I reached Bangalore (after driving around 500 kms). I spoke to one Mr Prem at Concorde. He was very cordial in his dealings and I was actually blown over by their dealing with me. They inspected the vehicle and told me that it was in excellent condition, other than the issues raised by me. I asked them to fix them all. Initially their estimate came to Rs 8000, to replace the clutch master cylinder which would solve the gearshift and clutch problems. However, since the problem didnt go after replacing the MC, they said they would have to replace the entire clutch assembly. I agreed to it, and after doing oil service, the bill came to Rs 23000/-. I didnt mind paying it, as it was a second hand car and knew it would require some overhauling, eventhough they had failed in their initial diagnosis of the problem. They had also replaced the oil sump as it was found damaged.

Scene 2: I drove the car for around 7000 kms after the service. At some point during the ownership, I started finding black smoke coming out of the exhaust and since it was a white car, soot formed at the bottom of the rear bumper. I ignored it as I guess it as a common thing in diesel cars. At 6800 kms, I went back to the service station for regular service (synthetic oils require service only every 7500 kms is what they said when they sold it to me). I explained to them the problelms, and they initially diagnosed it as a turbocharger problem. They wanted me to replace the turbocharger.

One day later, they call me and tell me that due to oil sump replacement, the gap between the sump and the engine was more than 4mm and that caused the engine internal parts to get damaged. This required an engine overhaul. I asked them to give an estimate. After four weeks of back and forth, they gave me an estimate of Rs 1.3 laks. I said that I am not ready to pay, as it was Concorde Motors who had replaced the oil sump which was the main cause of this engine degradation. They stated giving me lame reasons that engine oil was not replaced during the free services of the car (with the previous owner). I cannot believe it, as the car had run 20000 kms without a problem, and even when it came to my hands. Also I believe that the previous owner had replaced the oil. Doesn't it become the company's responsibility to replace engine oil as per the free services checklist (even if customer pays for it).

After many requests, Mr Murali from Concorde Motors tells me today that he spoke to FIAT officials, and they are offering a 25% discount on the parts. Also he will work on some kind of discount on labour charges. This, friends, I believe that I have been given a raw deal, and would like to contest it.

Please read the information above and let me know if I stand any chance in this case to recover the full amount of engine repair costs, as I believe it was purely due to wrong diagnosis and wrong fitting that caused the failure.

Please help me out with any options that I have.

Thanks,
/Ajeesh

SilkDrive · 1st September 2010, 16:13

Oh no man..... not again!

A very sad situation indeed. The forum is overflowing with horror stories from Fiat dealers and service these days.

And oh, how kind and generous of Fiat to offer a big 25% discount, after their own guys messed up things. They should do whatever it takes for a nominal cost, when they have already confessed that the problem is caused by their work itself.

I guess, they are trying to take you for a ride since you had readily agreed for replacements of whatever they said earlier, they are hoping to earn some profits again. Please take a second opinion from other Fiat A.S.S or preferably go to Gowri Automobiles : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...tomobiles.html. May be it turns out to be something not so serious and can be taken care of without such major replacements.

Also, please do write to Fiat and try to make arrangements to get the vehicle checked by a Fiat engineer rather than the morons at the A.S.S. Get his opinion and if it still seems that the problem is caused due to negligence of A.S.S guys, take the matter up wit fiat.

service@fiapl.com This might be of some use to you.

Ever since I booked a Plaio, these horror stories started coming up even more. I wonder if i should pick this up as a signal from the almighty !

Hoping for the best !

ajeeshonly · 1st September 2010, 16:37

SilkDrive, the vehicle as such is awesome, with nice power and awesome drivability. All you have to watch out for are the dealers, and their tactics to fool the customer.

I never though I'd have such an experience. I also own a Honda City and have been more than happy with Dakshin Honda's service standards. I am not a finicky customer who keeps throwing tantrums. But this was too much for anyone to take. I am determined to drag them to court, even if it is going to be inconsequential.

SilkDrive · 1st September 2010, 16:49

Thanks ajeesh, got your point.

Seems like the best think to do would be to get it checked at Gowri Automobiles since it comes highly recommended from Bhpians. Hope Concorde is exaggerating the problem.

BTW how did they diagnose it to be a turbo-charger/engine component problem? Did they use the scanner? If so, have you checked out the error messages as well?

Please try to check the error messages and get opinions from other TASS as well.

dadu · 1st September 2010, 16:56

I doubt if their diagnostic is right(for smoke and engine overhaul), get it checked outside with an independent garage.

ajeeshonly · 2nd September 2010, 17:31

I dont know, I do not understand that much technicals to find the root cause of the issue. As of now the car doesn't move, as they have dismantled the engine. I am still talking to them to waiver me the engine fixing costs. Please let me know if any of you knows any influential person in concorde/fiat who can take my case.

ajeeshonly · 8th September 2010, 16:38

SilkDrive, I sent the email on 1st September itself. Till now I have not got a call or email from FIAT folks. Looks like I made a mistake in buying a fiat car.

I don't think I will ever buy another one. FIAT + TATA - sucks big time.

SilkDrive · 8th September 2010, 17:09

Sorry to hear that Ajeesh ! I guess the wayforward now is to somehow get the vehicle in working condition without going in for any major parts replacement followed by second opinions at better places. See if things are still in your favour. Hoping for the best for you buddy.

sumannandy · 9th September 2010, 07:32

I had similar problems with Concorde, please read my thread n diesel leakage. I had to involve the Tata customer care and it is still not resolved. Since your vehicle is Fiat vehicle, not sure about the process. Please involve the Fiat officials if required.

ajeeshonly · 9th September 2010, 20:19

Yes Suman. I did read about your ordeal. I am at a loss on how to proceed, coz without payment, the vehicle wont run again. And Fiat is showing deaf ears to my emails.

sdp1975 · 9th September 2010, 20:42

1) Is the car covered under warranty/extended warranty ?

2) get the service records from the previous owner. If he does not have them anymore, visit the service station in coimbatore - they should have computerized records of the services done. This will make your case stronger.

sumannandy · 10th September 2010, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdp1975

1) Is the car covered under warranty/extended warranty ?

2) get the service records from the previous owner. If he does not have them anymore, visit the service station in coimbatore - they should have computerized records of the services done. This will make your case stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajeeshonly

Yes Suman. I did read about your ordeal. I am at a loss on how to proceed, coz without payment, the vehicle wont run again. And Fiat is showing deaf ears to my emails.

You may want to get all service records from the service center (I think any service center should give you that, at least that is the case with TATA since the records are in their system). I did not have any pleasant experience with Concorde, so recommend that you involve Fiat officials if that is possible.

I think calling them would be a better option. I sent emails to TATA which never worked. When I called them it did work.

ajeeshonly · 23rd September 2010, 16:32

Suman, I will be going and meeting one of them personally. Just finding out the co-ordinates of an influential official.

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 23rd September 2010, 19:27

I cannot accept the story of sump change interfering with clearances. This is pure bull. Think about consumer court. Document all your moves. Also, full fault apparently lies on concorde.

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 24th September 2010, 00:24

My previous post was made from my mobile. So, here is my detailed take on this.

First, Concorde was wrong in not trying to lubricate the clutch cable. This is the culprit in 90% of "hard clutch" complaint.

Second, what exactly did they mean by "replace the clutch assembly"? Clutch plates + bearings?? If so, all I can say is OMG!!!

For the smoke problem - see this thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...l-engines.html

On a 20K / 2 year engine, I would have first suspected adulterated fuel, and second, cleaned the injection nozzles. So, again, OMG!!!!

Was there any loss of power / excess consumption of fuel / oil?

I hope you mean what you say when you mention the "oil sump". (and not the Pump).

The oil sump is the bottom cover of the engine. Engine oil is collected in this for recirculation. IF it was damaged, it is due to underbody hitting some hump / rough road. This is extremely unlikely. Assuming that the story was inf act true, it is impossible for this passibe component to hit moving components of the engine.

You ought of heard clatter from the engine, if this indeed was happening. And you will find the offending marks on the sump where the moving parts came into contact with the sump.

My guess is that they did not change the sump or the oil or the turbo.

And I seriously doubt that the engine is dismantled. Most probably, they have kept the top cover open. If they have opened the engine without your consent (just opening the engine and closing it - except the oil sump and top cover) is an expensive affair) - I would recommend you call the police and slap cheating charges on them.

And I suspect that Fiat will remain mum on this matter. Concorde is, after all, a subsidiary of Tatas.

See this blog post by a non-bhpian:-

Ramakrishnan's website / Say no to Concorde Motors

Note the same name repeating??

So, even if the engine is dismantled, get the vehicle towed out. That will work out cheaper.
And you can save the evidence for future reference in court.

1st September 2010, 15:47	#1
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	Need help with concorde motors service problem Hello All, I have been a regular reader at tbhp eventhough I don't post anything. Now the time has come to post because of a haunting problem I have with the fiat dealer Concorde Motors in Bangalore. Please let me know if I am on the side of justice or not. Scene 1: For a second car, I purchased a second hand fiat palio stile SDX vehicle August 2008 model, 20K kms run, in May 2010. The car was in a very good condition, other than the clutch was hard and the gear shift was right. It gave me 19kmpl milage at the time of purchase. I had taken it from Coimbatore, and since I live in Bangalore, showed it at the service station as soon as I reached Bangalore (after driving around 500 kms). I spoke to one Mr Prem at Concorde. He was very cordial in his dealings and I was actually blown over by their dealing with me. They inspected the vehicle and told me that it was in excellent condition, other than the issues raised by me. I asked them to fix them all. Initially their estimate came to Rs 8000, to replace the clutch master cylinder which would solve the gearshift and clutch problems. However, since the problem didnt go after replacing the MC, they said they would have to replace the entire clutch assembly. I agreed to it, and after doing oil service, the bill came to Rs 23000/-. I didnt mind paying it, as it was a second hand car and knew it would require some overhauling, eventhough they had failed in their initial diagnosis of the problem. They had also replaced the oil sump as it was found damaged. Scene 2: I drove the car for around 7000 kms after the service. At some point during the ownership, I started finding black smoke coming out of the exhaust and since it was a white car, soot formed at the bottom of the rear bumper. I ignored it as I guess it as a common thing in diesel cars. At 6800 kms, I went back to the service station for regular service (synthetic oils require service only every 7500 kms is what they said when they sold it to me). I explained to them the problelms, and they initially diagnosed it as a turbocharger problem. They wanted me to replace the turbocharger. One day later, they call me and tell me that due to oil sump replacement, the gap between the sump and the engine was more than 4mm and that caused the engine internal parts to get damaged. This required an engine overhaul. I asked them to give an estimate. After four weeks of back and forth, they gave me an estimate of Rs 1.3 laks. I said that I am not ready to pay, as it was Concorde Motors who had replaced the oil sump which was the main cause of this engine degradation. They stated giving me lame reasons that engine oil was not replaced during the free services of the car (with the previous owner). I cannot believe it, as the car had run 20000 kms without a problem, and even when it came to my hands. Also I believe that the previous owner had replaced the oil. Doesn't it become the company's responsibility to replace engine oil as per the free services checklist (even if customer pays for it). After many requests, Mr Murali from Concorde Motors tells me today that he spoke to FIAT officials, and they are offering a 25% discount on the parts. Also he will work on some kind of discount on labour charges. This, friends, I believe that I have been given a raw deal, and would like to contest it. Please read the information above and let me know if I stand any chance in this case to recover the full amount of engine repair costs, as I believe it was purely due to wrong diagnosis and wrong fitting that caused the failure. Please help me out with any options that I have. Thanks, /Ajeesh
	() Thanks

1st September 2010, 16:13	#2
SilkDrive BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 172 Thanked: 24 Times	Oh no man..... not again! A very sad situation indeed. The forum is overflowing with horror stories from Fiat dealers and service these days. And oh, how kind and generous of Fiat to offer a big 25% discount, after their own guys messed up things. They should do whatever it takes for a nominal cost, when they have already confessed that the problem is caused by their work itself. I guess, they are trying to take you for a ride since you had readily agreed for replacements of whatever they said earlier, they are hoping to earn some profits again. Please take a second opinion from other Fiat A.S.S or preferably go to Gowri Automobiles : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/bangal...tomobiles.html. May be it turns out to be something not so serious and can be taken care of without such major replacements. Also, please do write to Fiat and try to make arrangements to get the vehicle checked by a Fiat engineer rather than the morons at the A.S.S. Get his opinion and if it still seems that the problem is caused due to negligence of A.S.S guys, take the matter up wit fiat. service@fiapl.com This might be of some use to you. Ever since I booked a Plaio, these horror stories started coming up even more. I wonder if i should pick this up as a signal from the almighty ! Hoping for the best ! Last edited by SilkDrive : 1st September 2010 at 16:15.
	() Thanks

1st September 2010, 16:37	#3
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	SilkDrive, the vehicle as such is awesome, with nice power and awesome drivability. All you have to watch out for are the dealers, and their tactics to fool the customer. I never though I'd have such an experience. I also own a Honda City and have been more than happy with Dakshin Honda's service standards. I am not a finicky customer who keeps throwing tantrums. But this was too much for anyone to take. I am determined to drag them to court, even if it is going to be inconsequential.
	() Thanks

1st September 2010, 16:49	#4
SilkDrive BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 172 Thanked: 24 Times	Thanks ajeesh, got your point. Seems like the best think to do would be to get it checked at Gowri Automobiles since it comes highly recommended from Bhpians. Hope Concorde is exaggerating the problem. BTW how did they diagnose it to be a turbo-charger/engine component problem? Did they use the scanner? If so, have you checked out the error messages as well? Please try to check the error messages and get opinions from other TASS as well.
	() Thanks

1st September 2010, 16:56	#5
dadu Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,803 Thanked: 462 Times View My Garage	I doubt if their diagnostic is right(for smoke and engine overhaul), get it checked outside with an independent garage.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2010, 17:31	#6
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	I dont know, I do not understand that much technicals to find the root cause of the issue. As of now the car doesn't move, as they have dismantled the engine. I am still talking to them to waiver me the engine fixing costs. Please let me know if any of you knows any influential person in concorde/fiat who can take my case.
	() Thanks

8th September 2010, 16:38	#7
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	SilkDrive, I sent the email on 1st September itself. Till now I have not got a call or email from FIAT folks. Looks like I made a mistake in buying a fiat car. I don't think I will ever buy another one. FIAT + TATA - sucks big time.
	() Thanks

8th September 2010, 17:09	#8
SilkDrive BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 172 Thanked: 24 Times	Sorry to hear that Ajeesh ! I guess the wayforward now is to somehow get the vehicle in working condition without going in for any major parts replacement followed by second opinions at better places. See if things are still in your favour. Hoping for the best for you buddy.
	() Thanks

9th September 2010, 07:32	#9
sumannandy BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 822 Thanked: 592 Times View My Garage	I had similar problems with Concorde, please read my thread n diesel leakage. I had to involve the Tata customer care and it is still not resolved. Since your vehicle is Fiat vehicle, not sure about the process. Please involve the Fiat officials if required.
	() Thanks

9th September 2010, 20:19	#10
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	Yes Suman. I did read about your ordeal. I am at a loss on how to proceed, coz without payment, the vehicle wont run again. And Fiat is showing deaf ears to my emails.
	() Thanks

9th September 2010, 20:42	#11
sdp1975 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,700 Thanked: 1,273 Times View My Garage	1) Is the car covered under warranty/extended warranty ? 2) get the service records from the previous owner. If he does not have them anymore, visit the service station in coimbatore - they should have computerized records of the services done. This will make your case stronger.
	() Thanks

23rd September 2010, 16:32	#13
ajeeshonly BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 46 Thanked: 11 Times	Suman, I will be going and meeting one of them personally. Just finding out the co-ordinates of an influential official.
	() Thanks

23rd September 2010, 19:27	#14
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR BANNED Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,522 Thanked: 752 Times	I cannot accept the story of sump change interfering with clearances. This is pure bull. Think about consumer court. Document all your moves. Also, full fault apparently lies on concorde.
	() Thanks

24th September 2010, 00:24	#15
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR BANNED Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,522 Thanked: 752 Times	My previous post was made from my mobile. So, here is my detailed take on this. First, Concorde was wrong in not trying to lubricate the clutch cable. This is the culprit in 90% of "hard clutch" complaint. Second, what exactly did they mean by "replace the clutch assembly"? Clutch plates + bearings?? If so, all I can say is OMG!!! For the smoke problem - see this thread. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...l-engines.html On a 20K / 2 year engine, I would have first suspected adulterated fuel, and second, cleaned the injection nozzles. So, again, OMG!!!! Was there any loss of power / excess consumption of fuel / oil? I hope you mean what you say when you mention the "oil sump". (and not the Pump). The oil sump is the bottom cover of the engine. Engine oil is collected in this for recirculation. IF it was damaged, it is due to underbody hitting some hump / rough road. This is extremely unlikely. Assuming that the story was inf act true, it is impossible for this passibe component to hit moving components of the engine. You ought of heard clatter from the engine, if this indeed was happening. And you will find the offending marks on the sump where the moving parts came into contact with the sump. My guess is that they did not change the sump or the oil or the turbo. And I seriously doubt that the engine is dismantled. Most probably, they have kept the top cover open. If they have opened the engine without your consent (just opening the engine and closing it - except the oil sump and top cover) is an expensive affair) - I would recommend you call the police and slap cheating charges on them. And I suspect that Fiat will remain mum on this matter. Concorde is, after all, a subsidiary of Tatas. See this blog post by a non-bhpian:- Ramakrishnan's website / Say no to Concorde Motors Note the same name repeating?? So, even if the engine is dismantled, get the vehicle towed out. That will work out cheaper. And you can save the evidence for future reference in court.
	() Thanks