So, why don't you buy an Automatic?

JustCause · 19th November 2011, 16:54

Why NOT an A/T for me:

Push-start is not feasible for an A/T. It can be done without a hitch in M/Ts.

More mechanicals mean more things can go wrong. Defective A/T boxes are always replaced instead of repaired, making repairs expensive & reliability sketchy.

Mass market A/Ts have no engine braking. Therefore, maintenance on brakes goes up.

DSGs have had only limited success in the Indian Market & lack of knowledge results in most garages not touching an automatic.

venks · 19th November 2011, 17:18

Voted for third option. Affordable diesel AT would be any day buy for me. Unfortunately none exists in the market !

venks

ra'ul M · 19th November 2011, 17:26

Voted for Other. Reason:
The automatics are too boring

and a tad unpredictable

. My observation is that the auto's were designed for civilized driving only [Read: lane driving, sticking to the speed limit, maybe sipping a coffee] and the boring day to day commute. If I want to have fun, I cant let a computer interfere with the proceedings, even if it comes with paddle shifters.
I drive a City A/T quite a bit and in the process of getting back to a manual transmission real soon.
I would say [maybe because of relatively less traffic up here] that only on 5% of my commutes would I miss the autobox.

bluevolt · 19th November 2011, 17:38

It's not that I can't afford automatic nut it's just that I prefer manual transmission any day over automatic transmission.

And off course automatics are expensive to maintain and run & less reliable than manual cars.

Voted for "I LOVE MANUAL TRANSMISSION"

antz.bin · 19th November 2011, 18:03

OK. I didn't buy one(Don't earn enough yet

), but made my (63 year old) dad get the Civic AT. He had been driving Manuals since 1988. He had made me his designated 'whenever free' Driver.

Since he got the Civic, he just doesn't let me drive

. But given the kind of calf-aches our other car (the Logan Diesel) gave me in bumper to bumper traffic, I am not complaining.
Not a day has passed that he hasn't praised the AT for its drive (we only got the car last month).

Running costs didn't matter much since only my Dad drives the Civic and usage is limited to 500-600km per month. AND at 10.5 kmpl in Pune traffic(100% AC), I don't think its doing too badly compared to the smaller ATs. Also, If he wants to drive, he might as well do it with minimal effort.

Also, I feel, since you have less things to worry about while driving, you can pay more attention on the road. So, voted for 'Not Applicable' - Just bought one.

As for the argument of 'Power Windows' Vs AT,

How many times do we roll down the windows in a typical home-office drive?
And how many times do we press the clutch / change gear?
(^^^This is how I convinced my father. True story.)

I would rather have AT and skip the Power Windows if I had a choice.

mayankjha1806 · 19th November 2011, 18:15

I responded with "I don't think its worth the extra cost" and "I love manuals", but primarily its a cost thing as i would not want to pay extra just for a different gear box. I kind of get away from driving in such chaotic traffic by timing my start, or avoiding it as much as possible by either using public transport or car pooling, in the cases which are rare when i have to drive through heavy traffic i live with it.

Just to put some numbers to the above statements, my daily office commute is on office bus these days, the only time i drive is when i go to drop my daughter to school every day in the morning and two to three times for buying few things on weekdays. On weekends the traffic is much less hence not really a big problem.

psp62in · 19th November 2011, 18:28

I voted for #3. i.e. " No Automatic available in my segment" ... though the actual reason would have been more aptly put as "No Automatic was available for my desired car".

It was sometime in mid 2009 when I wanted to buy a new ANHC-VXi (the Auto version), but found that this was discontinued temporarily - no stock were available except some test run cars - and new ones won't be available for another 6 months.

I had already sold off my old car, and had no option but to settle for EXi (manual version).

Hopefully I will be able to find an AUTO version in my next replacement choice.

vina · 19th November 2011, 18:35

For me automatic was unaffordable in the sense that I would rather pay extra for the car than for the transmission. The difference (including taxes) is over 1L and not much choice is available anyway.

Another major factor was concern on what happens if something goes wrong with the transmission.

To top it, I would rather have the option to use manual when I desire - at least in my budget that option wasn't available.

As far as performance goes, while I don't deny that even a cheap AT can change gears faster than I do, I'm not sure even the most expensive ones would always chose the next gear exactly as I would - so basically that advantage may not be as good as it sounds on paper (and given the complains about performance, it probably isn't).

kadanaJ · 19th November 2011, 18:43

Voted for "I love Manual transmissions!".

As convenient as automatics are, I'm so used to manual, I don't even notice when I shift gears or use the clutch. It's reflexive, so the drawbacks of a manual in heavy traffic don't really apply to me.

When you want to have a bit of fun, most automatics just don't cut it.
With the exception of the DSG's tiptronic, nothing comes close to a manual, not to mention the reliability issues with DSG's just eliminate them as an option.

I personally, would be ecstatic if BMW offered 6 speed manuals as an option in the 3 series, not to mention, a 320D CE Manual could lower the entry price of a BMW even further.

arindambasu13 · 19th November 2011, 19:00

The Holy Trinity of Driver Involvement in my books is the steering, feed back through three pedal, and the gearbox. These are the tools which link man to machine, and gives that feeling of the machine being part of the driver.

A slick gearbox, coupled with a feelsome steering on a good engine can deliver untold pleasures. With an automatic, leaving aside the massive convenience, there is very limited driver involvement. Just does not cut it for me.

I love manual trannies, and till such time as my knee does not complain, manuals it will be for me. With transmission systems becoming more and more sophisticated by the day, things are only going to get better for manual trannyheads

SushilBajpai · 19th November 2011, 19:17

The A/T option is not available for the two cars that I drive - Skoda Yeti and Honda Jazz.

Had the A/T version been available both cars would have been A/T. In fact Skoda appears to have made an error of judgment by not launching DSG variant of Yeti, as is amply evident in various ownership reports.

aaggoswami · 19th November 2011, 19:19

1) FE Concern. Cant get rid of it. With rising fuel costs ( specially petrol ), it will pinch more than what it does in case of manuals.

2) I love Manuals! Yes, that is the ground reality, I love to drive on highways. Day before yesterday I drove to my native place where we have build a new house ( sort of small vacation small house ) for Vastu. Was busy, but still on my way back, I enjoyed the entire stretch of road. More than 400 kms trip, project pressure, work during vastu was nothing to hold me back from having more fun during driving.
The car, BTW, was Waggie K10 CNG.

3) Maintenance concerns. It is an unmarked territory and Skoda automatics ( Yes I know they are not conventional AT ) have just spoiled the AT image.

4) Very high premium. I dont think they are worth such a high premium. In case of a car available with both petrol and diesel motors, why would one buy a petrol AT instead of MT diesel ?

Moreover :

The cars in India typically are not having powerful motors. Example of US: Camry with that 2.5 can be had with automatic, wont be that difficult and car wont feel dying lethargic ( as if on hospital bed ). In India, the small engine capacities dull already whatever little performance they have. And this becomes a big issue when we have car fully loaded with AC cooling down the cabin FE drops too as the small motors work very hard.

Crossing the rain water logged Indian Roads. We know this happens quite often and during these times the clutch becomes very helpful.

Lack of new technology. Ford DCT is step in right direction. Very nice to have "maintenance-free till 2.4 lakh kms." transmission. If this technology is made available to all existing car spectrums, the AT would have a bigger market. And the paddle shift would help too.

Whatever be the case, but an AT car is very easy to drive in congested roads/traffic. How many be negatives of AT, but when it comes to B-to-B traffic, AT is best thing we can have.

akj123 · 19th November 2011, 19:20

My concerns are mainly cost related.

In the market for a hatch right now. It's already pretty expensive to find one with good crash ratings and safety features (since they're typically present in top-end versions only). Add to that the heavy taxes in bangalore, and we're looking at OTR prices in range of 7L

Auto adding some 75K-1L on top of that is not worth it. Plus, mileage seems to drop quite a bit (read on some threads that i10 autos were getting <= 10 kmpl), which adds significantly to running cost.

So yes, while i would like to have this, specially for wifey, overall cost difference (initial purchase + fuel delta + maintenance) needs to be lesser.

shankar.balan · 19th November 2011, 19:22

i would agree with you on this. had an autobox been available with the Yeti I might have chosen to buy that instead of the Elegance MT that I just booked today. simply because the AT is a real pleasure in the day to day mucky traffic scenarios. But it is also true that the MT is much more involving to drive especially when on holiday in the hills and suchlike.
perhaps if and when we decide to get another second vehicle for ourselves we may look for an AT hatchback because my wife might actually feel like driving then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SushilBajpai

The A/T option is not available for the two cars that I drive - Skoda Yeti and Honda Jazz.

Had the A/T version been available both cars would have been A/T. In fact Skoda appears to have made an error of judgment by not launching DSG variant of Yeti, as is amply evident in various ownership reports.

hellmet · 19th November 2011, 19:35

My next car WILL be an automatic.

After having driven an automatic in the US as my first car I seriously wondered why India is obsessed with manuals. I really wanted to buy an automatic as my first car in India, but I went for a manual instead. Why? Because if I never learn how to drive a manual I'd never be able to drive anything else but my car in India!

My next car though, will be an automatic... I seriously detest using all my limbs for driving, as it is, it takes too much concentration to drive on our roads.

View Poll Results: No Automatic for me because:
Fuel-efficiency concerns	246	18.51%
I love Manual transmissions!	531	39.95%
AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels)	395	29.72%
I don't think the cost premium (75 - 100K) is worth it	221	16.63%
Maintenance concerns	159	11.96%
Other reason (please specify in your post)	39	2.93%
Not applicable. My next car WILL be an Automatic	310	23.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1329. You may not vote on this poll

19th November 2011, 16:54	#31
JustCause BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Currently, New Delhi Posts: 422 Thanked: 100 Times View My Garage	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? Why NOT an A/T for me: Push-start is not feasible for an A/T. It can be done without a hitch in M/Ts. More mechanicals mean more things can go wrong. Defective A/T boxes are always replaced instead of repaired, making repairs expensive & reliability sketchy. Mass market A/Ts have no engine braking. Therefore, maintenance on brakes goes up. DSGs have had only limited success in the Indian Market & lack of knowledge results in most garages not touching an automatic.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 17:18	#32
venks BHPian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 61 Thanked: 91 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? Voted for third option. Affordable diesel AT would be any day buy for me. Unfortunately none exists in the market ! venks
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 17:26	#33
ra'ul M BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 221 Thanked: 46 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? Voted for Other. Reason: The automatics are too boring and a tad unpredictable . My observation is that the auto's were designed for civilized driving only [Read: lane driving, sticking to the speed limit, maybe sipping a coffee] and the boring day to day commute. If I want to have fun, I cant let a computer interfere with the proceedings, even if it comes with paddle shifters. I drive a City A/T quite a bit and in the process of getting back to a manual transmission real soon. I would say [maybe because of relatively less traffic up here] that only on 5% of my commutes would I miss the autobox.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 17:38	#34
bluevolt Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Delhi Posts: 3,274 Thanked: 3,474 Times View My Garage	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? It's not that I can't afford automatic nut it's just that I prefer manual transmission any day over automatic transmission. And off course automatics are expensive to maintain and run & less reliable than manual cars. Voted for "I LOVE MANUAL TRANSMISSION" Last edited by bluevolt : 19th November 2011 at 17:41.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 18:03	#35
antz.bin BHPian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Pune Posts: 986 Thanked: 3,889 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? OK. I didn't buy one(Don't earn enough yet ), but made my (63 year old) dad get the Civic AT. He had been driving Manuals since 1988. He had made me his designated 'whenever free' Driver. Since he got the Civic, he just doesn't let me drive . But given the kind of calf-aches our other car (the Logan Diesel) gave me in bumper to bumper traffic, I am not complaining. Not a day has passed that he hasn't praised the AT for its drive (we only got the car last month). Running costs didn't matter much since only my Dad drives the Civic and usage is limited to 500-600km per month. AND at 10.5 kmpl in Pune traffic(100% AC), I don't think its doing too badly compared to the smaller ATs. Also, If he wants to drive, he might as well do it with minimal effort. Also, I feel, since you have less things to worry about while driving, you can pay more attention on the road. So, voted for 'Not Applicable' - Just bought one. As for the argument of 'Power Windows' Vs AT, How many times do we roll down the windows in a typical home-office drive? And how many times do we press the clutch / change gear? (^^^This is how I convinced my father. True story.) I would rather have AT and skip the Power Windows if I had a choice.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 18:15	#36
mayankjha1806 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,160 Thanked: 978 Times View My Garage	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? I responded with "I don't think its worth the extra cost" and "I love manuals", but primarily its a cost thing as i would not want to pay extra just for a different gear box. I kind of get away from driving in such chaotic traffic by timing my start, or avoiding it as much as possible by either using public transport or car pooling, in the cases which are rare when i have to drive through heavy traffic i live with it. Just to put some numbers to the above statements, my daily office commute is on office bus these days, the only time i drive is when i go to drop my daughter to school every day in the morning and two to three times for buying few things on weekdays. On weekends the traffic is much less hence not really a big problem. Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 19th November 2011 at 18:17.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 18:28	#37
psp62in BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 185 Thanked: 23 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? I voted for #3. i.e. " No Automatic available in my segment" ... though the actual reason would have been more aptly put as "No Automatic was available for my desired car". It was sometime in mid 2009 when I wanted to buy a new ANHC-VXi (the Auto version), but found that this was discontinued temporarily - no stock were available except some test run cars - and new ones won't be available for another 6 months. I had already sold off my old car, and had no option but to settle for EXi (manual version). Hopefully I will be able to find an AUTO version in my next replacement choice.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 18:35	#38
vina Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore Posts: 1,432 Thanked: 339 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? For me automatic was unaffordable in the sense that I would rather pay extra for the car than for the transmission. The difference (including taxes) is over 1L and not much choice is available anyway. Another major factor was concern on what happens if something goes wrong with the transmission. To top it, I would rather have the option to use manual when I desire - at least in my budget that option wasn't available. As far as performance goes, while I don't deny that even a cheap AT can change gears faster than I do, I'm not sure even the most expensive ones would always chose the next gear exactly as I would - so basically that advantage may not be as good as it sounds on paper (and given the complains about performance, it probably isn't).
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 18:43	#39
kadanaJ BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Mumbai Posts: 585 Thanked: 958 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? Voted for "I love Manual transmissions!". As convenient as automatics are, I'm so used to manual, I don't even notice when I shift gears or use the clutch. It's reflexive, so the drawbacks of a manual in heavy traffic don't really apply to me. When you want to have a bit of fun, most automatics just don't cut it. With the exception of the DSG's tiptronic, nothing comes close to a manual, not to mention the reliability issues with DSG's just eliminate them as an option. I personally, would be ecstatic if BMW offered 6 speed manuals as an option in the 3 series, not to mention, a 320D CE Manual could lower the entry price of a BMW even further.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 19:00	#40
arindambasu13 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,582 Thanked: 2,451 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? The Holy Trinity of Driver Involvement in my books is the steering, feed back through three pedal, and the gearbox. These are the tools which link man to machine, and gives that feeling of the machine being part of the driver. A slick gearbox, coupled with a feelsome steering on a good engine can deliver untold pleasures. With an automatic, leaving aside the massive convenience, there is very limited driver involvement. Just does not cut it for me. I love manual trannies, and till such time as my knee does not complain, manuals it will be for me. With transmission systems becoming more and more sophisticated by the day, things are only going to get better for manual trannyheads
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 19:17	#41
SushilBajpai BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pune/Lasham Posts: 266 Thanked: 246 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? The A/T option is not available for the two cars that I drive - Skoda Yeti and Honda Jazz. Had the A/T version been available both cars would have been A/T. In fact Skoda appears to have made an error of judgment by not launching DSG variant of Yeti, as is amply evident in various ownership reports.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 19:19	#42
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,982 Thanked: 2,931 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? 1) FE Concern. Cant get rid of it. With rising fuel costs ( specially petrol ), it will pinch more than what it does in case of manuals. 2) I love Manuals! Yes, that is the ground reality, I love to drive on highways. Day before yesterday I drove to my native place where we have build a new house ( sort of small vacation small house ) for Vastu. Was busy, but still on my way back, I enjoyed the entire stretch of road. More than 400 kms trip, project pressure, work during vastu was nothing to hold me back from having more fun during driving. The car, BTW, was Waggie K10 CNG. 3) Maintenance concerns. It is an unmarked territory and Skoda automatics ( Yes I know they are not conventional AT ) have just spoiled the AT image. 4) Very high premium. I dont think they are worth such a high premium. In case of a car available with both petrol and diesel motors, why would one buy a petrol AT instead of MT diesel ? Moreover : The cars in India typically are not having powerful motors. Example of US: Camry with that 2.5 can be had with automatic, wont be that difficult and car wont feel dying lethargic ( as if on hospital bed ). In India, the small engine capacities dull already whatever little performance they have. And this becomes a big issue when we have car fully loaded with AC cooling down the cabin FE drops too as the small motors work very hard. Crossing the rain water logged Indian Roads. We know this happens quite often and during these times the clutch becomes very helpful. Lack of new technology. Ford DCT is step in right direction. Very nice to have "maintenance-free till 2.4 lakh kms." transmission. If this technology is made available to all existing car spectrums, the AT would have a bigger market. And the paddle shift would help too. Whatever be the case, but an AT car is very easy to drive in congested roads/traffic. How many be negatives of AT, but when it comes to B-to-B traffic, AT is best thing we can have.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 19:20	#43
akj123 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 145 Thanked: 113 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? My concerns are mainly cost related. In the market for a hatch right now. It's already pretty expensive to find one with good crash ratings and safety features (since they're typically present in top-end versions only). Add to that the heavy taxes in bangalore, and we're looking at OTR prices in range of 7L Auto adding some 75K-1L on top of that is not worth it. Plus, mileage seems to drop quite a bit (read on some threads that i10 autos were getting <= 10 kmpl), which adds significantly to running cost. So yes, while i would like to have this, specially for wifey, overall cost difference (initial purchase + fuel delta + maintenance) needs to be lesser.
	() Thanks

19th November 2011, 19:35	#45
hellmet BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: GTA \| GHMC Posts: 886 Thanked: 1,025 Times	Re: So, why don't you buy an Automatic? My next car WILL be an automatic. After having driven an automatic in the US as my first car I seriously wondered why India is obsessed with manuals. I really wanted to buy an automatic as my first car in India, but I went for a manual instead. Why? Because if I never learn how to drive a manual I'd never be able to drive anything else but my car in India! My next car though, will be an automatic... I seriously detest using all my limbs for driving, as it is, it takes too much concentration to drive on our roads.
	() Thanks