Why Fiat Has Failed In The Past, Present & Will Continue To Fail In The Future

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by smartcat

- Wrong choice of local partners
- Poor reliability
- Poor after sales service
- Poor mileage
- Not so powerful heavy cars
- Poor brand image

With FIAT's current lineup(Punto & Linea), I do not agree with two of the above points.

- Poor reliability
- Poor mileage

[PGNarain]

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[teky]

Another Fiat thread - Time for some entertainment I believe!

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

On the other hand, Fiat's supposedly mass market cars like Punto/Linea were plagued with low mileage

Do you have source or is it just another plucking from the air statement. Fiat has fair share of problem including the service we all agree, but making baseless statements is being pure ignorant.

The OP is asking about Fiat bringing in new models, which I strongly disagree with. Both the cars sold are competent cars, the only thing which is against them are brand and A.S.S. The existing Tata service centers are already crowded and adding another model will just add to the misery. Fiat is already trying to do something about the Brand by opening Caffes - agreed this alone isn't important but they are trying. Also the plans to open separate 3S points will definitely improve the A.S.S hopefully including the spares availability.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by smartcat

- Poor reliability
- Poor after sales service
- Poor mileage
- Not so powerful heavy cars

I dont agree to the above points.

1) The cars are reliable. Yes, I have had a wheel bearing failure within 13k kms, if you can call that unreliability.

2) After sales service of TATA is poor, but A.S.S. of FIAT is awesome.

3) Poor mileage? I am getting 14.5 kmpl in chock-a-block city traffic & 18 kmpl on highways in my 90hp Punto. And i dont really drive slowly or without A/C.

4) Not powerful... wrong. Not spirited... true. They are powerful but the weight & gearing dampens the performance.


I feel why someone would hesitate from buying a FIAT would be because -

1) He does not know or is not interested in the capabilities & engineering finesse of the vehicle.
2) He is not sure of FIAT's future in India.
3) Rumours about lack of service support from the company.
4) Apprehensions about spare parts availability.
5) Brand image.
6) Projected to be a fuel guzzler.

[smartcat]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Good points Smartcat, but the question is, do
the powers that be at Fiat India consider Fiat to be a failure in
India? Specially given the fact that its their diesel engine that is
doing duty in so many other cars out on Indian roads?

I sure hope Fiat is not happy with the way their business is panning out in India! I get the collaboration (sharing of engines) part of their business though. I say, go the whole hog and manufacture the 1.6MJD and 1.9MJD diesel engines in India. The business prospects for such engines are promising - Suzuki, Honda, Tata etc might be interested.

Originally Posted by amit

Look at VW. Compared to Fiat, they are newborn's
in India and yet they have Polo, Vento, Jetta , Passat & soon
launching Touareg with a lot of buzz going on about the Up!.

Excellent example. And no, VW is not successful because of the so called "Brand value". The marketing world is awash with examples of companies with huge brand value (Eg: Sony) being walloped by newcomers (Eg: LG) in the consumer durables space.

And yes, I know Television is not the same thing as a Car - but when it comes to consumer product, a brand alone cannot make or break sales. Good example for that is Chevrolet Cruze - a not-so-great brand taking on Toyota/Honda/Skoda with a good product.

The Bravo is a Golf competitor and even VW is not bringing the Golf here
for reasons we all know. To make a sedan out of Bravo, they need a
couple of year's which they don't have. Croma is a station wagon. Do we really think it's going to work?

They will have to be appropriately Indianized (read: proper boot). And as many manufacturers have found out, such products find takers in other non-US/non-Europe markets too. So its not money down the drain.

PS. Punto / Linea will not die in 2014. They died in 2010 itself! :-)

I'm pretty sure you will be shot for saying that. But then, you own a Fiat Punto - so I guess you'll do fine!

Originally Posted by PGNarain

As Smartcat himself mentions, he was going to buy a Fiat and was dissuaded by other people's opinions on A.S.S.

Woaah! I did not say that! I'm quoting my post again -

I almost bought the Punto in 2010. The only reason why I didn't buy the Punto is because, um.. My feet are too wide! When I placed my leg on the dead pedal, it would touch the clutch pedal too. So yes, I did ignore the stories of bad service, reliability, power, mileage and so on, and *almost* bought a Fiat.

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

2) After sales service of TATA is poor, but A.S.S. of FIAT is awesome.
.

Sir, which city are you in. Would like to know which city is an exception.

Fiat cars are not unreliable. Their availibility of parts is. Without this, car is as good as unreliable. Ask me.

[StarrySky]

I don't think it makes sense for Fiat to bring their entire range here to India, but Fiat could do with a hatch at a lower price level than the Punto. I hope they will being new Uno/Palio/Panda to India once they have opened their independent sales/service stations.

The Punto/Linea also need an upgrade. All said and done, Punto is atleast one generation older than its direct competitors (i20, Swift, Polo etc) and it shows, especially in the interiors. Same case with Linea as well. My friend who was looking for a C-segment sedan chose Vento over the Linea - and a major reason was the interiors (design, not quality of materials).

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

Sir, which city are you in. Would like to know which city is an exception.

Fiat cars are not unreliable. Their availibility of parts is. Without this, car is as good as unreliable. Ask me.

Mumbai. And you can read this to know why I feel so.

[rameshnanda]

Year 2015 AD

- I would have completed 1L+ Kms in my Linea and going strong.
- Fiat will be having separate 3S Centres (Sales, Service and Spares).
- T-BHP will be having 2000+ threads on Fiat discussing about the A.S.S., Reliability, the way ahead for Fiat
- I will be munching popcorn and reading these threads to have a break from my hectic work.

I am also good at making predictions .

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Mumbai. And you can read this to know why I feel so.

With due respect to the fact that you feel happy with the service, irony still remains that the spare wasn't available for a long time and only after sending a mail to Mangesh you got some relief. And this is for a running model. Forget about the discontinued ones.

I now have to rely on aftermarket spares for my Palio whenever I am unable to source originals.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by vinit.merchant

With due respect to the fact that you feel happy with the service, irony still remains that the spare wasn't available for a long time and only after sending a mail to Mangesh you got some relief. And this is for a running model. Forget about the discontinued ones.

I now have to rely on aftermarket spares for my Palio whenever I am unable to source originals.

Totally agree. That is the reason I have mentioned TATA's service is poor & FIAT's is good.

When I placed an order for a FIAT part at the TATA's A.S.S., the part dint arrive. As soon as I contacted a FIAT official, the part arrived in two days.

I know it does not make sense but what I am trying to imply is that FIAT in itself is trying to be good but it's tie up with TATA is not helping. So they day FIAT says TATA to TATA, I am hoping things will REALLY improve.

Also read from the same thread that 2-3 weeks waiting for some parts is common in case of Maruti & Hyundai as well. My friend had to wait for two months to get parts for his Ritz after he had an accident. So...

[CareFreeKid]

With so many reasoning FIAT's failure, here's one of mine too summed up in this phrase - 'First Impression is the Last Impression'.

Cases in point:
Maruti Suzuki
- the pioneer in Indian automobile industry and first 'Indian' manufacturer, offering truly modern VFM cars. It was sight seeing 800 DX zoom past Padminis and Ambassadors.

Skoda
- entered the market with built-to-last Octavia. Still sells good numbers, with most models not market leaders or biggest challengers to the best in segment

Toyota
- Qualis, the boxy people carrier was extremely reliable and offered decent luxury for that time, given Sumo was its main competitor. 'Quality ' the keyword for all Toyotas.

Honda Siel
- with the advent of City, sedans got a new meaning. Lancer was a stiff competition, but Honda, the brand kept ahead. Again a quality product with the Honda engine providing that edge.

And more can follow.

For Fiat, whatever the issues are, somehow, for a majority of consumers, they still stand unresolved over the decade and a half it has been here, in this stint. Fiat's 'impression' is that of a manufacturer with petty niggling issues, which probably has carried over with time.

P.S - just a thought, not biased in favour or against Fiat.

[RS_DEL]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Totally agree. That is the reason I have mentioned TATA's service is poor & FIAT's is good.

When I placed an order for a FIAT part at the TATA's A.S.S., the part dint arrive. As soon as I contacted a FIAT official, the part arrived in two days.

common in case of Maruti & Hyundai as well. My friend had to wait for two months to get parts for his Ritz after he had an accident. So...

Forgive me for belaboring the point.

As a FIAT vehicle user, is it your impression that TATA-FIAT dealers are lax in providing A.S.S of the desired quality to FIAT vehicle owners out of sheer lack of interest or is it deliberate?

Regards

[nkg77]

Please find my comments in-line.

Originally Posted by smartcat

- Wrong choice of local partners
[nkg77] May be, but having owned 2 Fiat cars for the last 4.5 years have never faced any issues till now. In fact I get better service when compared to M800 we used to have before the Fiats came home.
- Poor reliability
[nkg77] This is absolutely ridiculous, my Fiats has never put me in trouble till now, in fact I can confidently take them any where any time without thinking twice.
- Poor after sales service
[nkg77] As stated above no issues till now, I have never heard the "stock not available" or "cant fix this problem, you have to bear with this" comments from TASS till now.
- Poor mileage
[nkg77] Palio Stile 1.1 gives a 14 km/l with AC on long distance,
Punto MJD gives 21 km/l on long distance and 16 km/l in city with AC on all the time.
- Not so powerful heavy cars
[nkg77] They are not very quick to reach 100, but can attain good speeds without much issues. Try driving a Punto/Linea over some hilly roads.
- Poor brand image
[nkg77] This will take a lot of effort and time from Fiat to turn it around

Originally Posted by smartcat

Year 2009 - Launch Of Fiat Punto/Linea
Year 2014 - Death Of Fiat Punto/Linea
[nkg77] When I bought my Palio in 2007 I heard that Fiat is gonna close down their Indian operations. Heard the same thing from the same set of people when I took the Punto in 2011. I am sure that I will hear the same thing when I buy my next car in 2015. The only constant thing will be Fiat still selling cars in India

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by RS_DEL

Forgive me for belaboring the point.

As a FIAT vehicle user, is it your impression that TATA-FIAT dealers are lax in providing A.S.S of the desired quality to FIAT vehicle owners out of sheer lack of interest or is it deliberate?

Regards

I would say it's lack of interest.

TATAs anyways have a reputation of poor A.S.S., so how & why would they handle FIAT?