[Aroy]

From another thread
http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/german-cars

It is high time that our perception that more expensive is better is changed. Not only are the German cars high maintenance items, but their reliability is worst than the Fiat 1100D.

[sansvk]

I know he has spent his hard earned white or black money on this car. But as a result of a mechanical failure, why should he call-in 14 other reinforcements? If this method works, any future problems for my car whould be addressed by gathering as many users of the same model from the community, followed by a parade to the dealer.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by sansvk

But as a result of a mechanical failure, why should he call-in 14 other reinforcements?

He did so because he knows that if we shout out loud in our country against a foreign entity in any respect we are bound to be heard irrespective how illogical it may be.

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[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sansvk

If this method works, any future problems for my car whould be addressed by gathering as many users of the same model from the community, followed by a parade to the dealer.

If this works really like you said then many of Skoda owners and their cars with family will shift to Skoda A.S.S to get a Dharna (protest) to get a replacement. Skoda sales are NIL. Produce cars only for replacement.

NOTE: To all Skoda owners No Offence. Don't fire me!

Anurag.

[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by Aroy

From another thread
http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/german-cars

It is high time that our perception that more expensive is better is changed. Not only are the German cars high maintenance items, but their reliability is worst than the Fiat 1100D.

I am sorry, but I will have to respectfully disagree sir. German car brands not only in India, but around the world are marketed as 'premium' car brands. And like any other premium/luxury goods, they are not worth their price. Period. And of course, their servicing is going to be higher.
People who buy these, know that very well. I maintain one such car. The car was bought by the owner with the full knowledge that there are better cars available at 1/2 the price point.

However, to say that they are unreliable, is not entirely true. Yes, I will accept that they are not as reliable as their japanese counterparts, and yes, they do tend to spend their time in the garages more. However, most of the mechanicals in the cars sold in India, are/have been used world wide in different conditions. They have been proven reliable and good. Every manufacturer has such one off cases, and yes, I will agree that it's easy to sit at home and talk.

There are a lot more such vehicles being sold in India. Most of them run fine. Most of them are being purchased by people who aren't exactly car enthusiasts. So, more or less, these cars are reliable. Yes, I will agree that they are not exactly abuse-friendly in nature, but I think, we are still an immature market on this aspect. Given some time and patience, I think soon enough, these cars will be able to be serviced at local garages.

If you were to glance at the service bills of these cars, their spares are costly mainly because most of the items are usually imported, and even then, the cost is very reasonable. It's the labour rates which are absurd. The car which I maintain, the labour cost is more than the parts in the billing. If you were to maintain these very same cars in a local competent garage, the service bills will become very very reasonable.

And, honestly, the cars overall feel much better built and engineered compared to their japanese counterparts. I have sat in good japanese cars and good german cars. I can honestly say that there is a certain charm in owning a german. Not worth their price..but then they are luxury brands. There are some aspects in which they are definitely better. For eg. they offer more power, better handling, better interiors and better built when compared to their competition (let's leave the price aside for the moment).

The only thing which the german manufacturers lack especially in India, is their service. They are not transparent and it all depends on the dealer. Customers are literally at the mercy of the dealer, and the company doesn't swing into action unless you start defaming them publicly. This is something I personally do not like. I have experienced this first hand. Now, I think, I know how to go about maintaining these vehicles in India atleast. I think, as far as mechanicals are concerned, these vehicles are on the whole pretty reliable. Electronically, they are still a bit off. But, they seem to be improving.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I swear! The media and politicians are equally responsible and to be blamed.

To add that the media encourages such stunt of power show-off!

Originally Posted by canonball

Parrys India shining mate
Comments related to who the users are reflect the way they treat things = why the car may be having issues, it's an opinion formed based on experience and posted by members on this thread on the forum. Don't see any OT as everyone posts their take on why the car went bust

Let's just keep aside how the owner in question got the funds to buy this car. We do not know him (atleast not me) at a personal level to comment.

I, for one would be reasonable with audi and ask them to do the engine replacement under warranty AT THEIR FACTORY. Not at their dealer. Further, I would ask for an extended warranty and maybe free services for all the mental harassment. That sound's reasonable to me atleast and that would be my demand. If they do not budge, well then, public defamation is the only way out in India at least. Something I pray I would never have to do.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[S2!!!]

Originally Posted by Simple_car

I am sorry, but I will have to respectfully disagree sir. German car brands not only in India, but around the world are marketed as 'premium' car brands. And like any other premium/luxury goods, they are not worth their price. Period. And of course, their servicing is going to be higher.
People who buy these, know that very well. I maintain one such car. The car was bought by the owner with the full knowledge that there are better cars available at 1/2 the price point.

As you have rightly pointed out that the owner with his/her full knowledge has gone ahead and purchased the vehicle after paying a hefty premium for an Audi, even after knowing that there are better and cheaper cars available, then, is it not the duty of the company to treat the customer with the same premiumness and exclusivity? Why is the guy being mocked for his request for an entirely new car?

Audi is not doing him any favour by offering to replace the engine. It is their duty to do so but him asking for compensation (in this case: a new car) is not unreasonable IMO. We have several horror stories of DSG issues from VAG but all we see from the company is just a replacement of part (at the max) without any compensation for the misery and hardships the owners have gone through.

The company may have definitely gone wrong somewhere or else why would 14 other owners be ready to part with their cars for the demands of one.

It is at times like these when the Japanese and even Koreans for that matter, carve an even deeper impression of reliability in the minds of the customers, all at the expense of Ze Germans.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

The company may have definitely gone wrong somewhere or else why would 14 other owners be ready to part with their cars for the demands of one.

hii S2, The company went wrong may be by not communicating the problem to the owner prior to its actual occurance. But if you may just look on the other aspect may be the owner avoided the problem due to the expense (Jab tak chal jaye thik hei baad mei kara lenge sorts). We clap with both hands not just one.

Secondly the rest 14 are kept for may be publicity just to de-grade a renowned brand.(behti ganga mei haath dho lo)

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[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by ad3952n

Secondly the rest 14 are kept for may be publicity just to de-grade a renowned brand.(behti ganga mei haath dho lo)

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Behti Ganga mein haath kya sab dho lenge yeh log. Chance mile toh sab ka Audi cars replace kardenge yeh owners.

Audi just cant be pointed right away for this. Let the owner show the problem and give detailed history as to how they got to know the issue and did they approach Audi or not! If they have and Audi couldn't do anything then let them stage a dharna!

Cheers,
Anurag.

[ad3952n]

@ a4anurag actually you are correct, they should follow a deligent approach and not just start blame game. The last resort as pointed by you should be done if the company refuses to melow down (which i dont think a brand like Audi will do)

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[S2!!!]

Originally Posted by ad3952n

hii S2, The company went wrong may be by not communicating the problem to the owner prior to its actual occurance. But if you may just look on the other aspect may be the owner avoided the problem due to the expense (Jab tak chal jaye thik hei baad mei kara lenge sorts). We clap with both hands not just one.

Secondly the rest 14 are kept for may be publicity just to de-grade a renowned brand.(behti ganga mei haath dho lo)

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Possible and believable butttt had this been a one of case. German cars are very well known for their reliability issues and that is not a hidden fact. Just that previous month my friend was locked in a BMW 3 having an electrical failure.

I do not know the intricacies of this case and whether or not the owner was warned, but the car was serviced at the registered dealer and being the owner of such an expensive vehicle, I sure wouldn't hold that kind of attitude of avoiding the problem if warned. Also, if the car was under warranty, it should have been rectified when and if the problem was identified immediately. Honestly, contrary to what many say, I believe that such failures are almost instantaneous and there are no flashing beeps or lights eons before the actual event, hence, the probability of him knowing and ignoring the problem seems miniscule.

I'd just like to conclude saying that if I were in the Audi owner's place, I too would expect a compensation apart from an engine replacement.

P.S. I am not commenting on the 14 others as of now.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by ad3952n

@ a4anurag actually you are correct, they should follow a deligent approach and not just start blame game. The last resort as pointed by you should be done if the company refuses to melow down (which i dont think a brand like Audi will do)

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Give Audi a break and let them think and decide what to do and how to tackle it. Its a machine and things are bound to go haywire but that doesn't mean it the worst car and the worst company to manufacture & sell cars in the world. Maruti, Toyota, BMW, recently GM (with half of it's portfolio in recall mode) is in media so owners of these respective companies also should stage a dharna for a Lemon.

I know such problems in cars can be lethal but fate is also another point that must be considered.

Anurag.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

being the owner of such an expensive vehicle, I sure wouldn't hold that kind of attitude of avoiding the problem if warned.

I believe that such failures are almost instantaneous and there are no flashing beeps or lights eons before the actual event, hence, the probability of him knowing and ignoring the problem seems miniscule.

I'd just like to conclude saying that if I were in the Audi owner's place, I too would expect a compensation apart from an engine replacement.

Buddy, by owning a high-end vehicle one's attitude cant be judged. Secondly being high end and technically sophasticated car surely some warning signal might be there.
Lastly, I respect your personal view of compensation. To each its own.

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[Simple_car]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

As you have rightly pointed out that the owner with his/her full knowledge has gone ahead and purchased the vehicle after paying a hefty premium for an Audi, even after knowing that there are better and cheaper cars available, then, is it not the duty of the company to treat the customer with the same premiumness and exclusivity? Why is the guy being mocked for his request for an entirely new car?

Dear S2 sir,

I do not know about audi, however, the brand which I maintain has treated me with exclusivity till date. Their service has been exemplary towards me. Yes, they do try and hard-sell some things and definitely try to deceive me as well. But, if you are an informed patron, they are extremely courteous and definitely treat you like a premium customer.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Audi is not doing him any favour by offering to replace the engine. It is their duty to do so but him asking for compensation (in this case: a new car) is not unreasonable IMO. We have several horror stories of DSG issues from VAG but all we see from the company is just a replacement of part (at the max)

It is true that Audi is not doing any favour. However, even in the western countries (I am mainly talking about the US here) where the laws are extremely consumer-centric, most of the time first a part replacement is carried out. Only if several critical components fail, or if the car remains in the service centre for more than specified duration, or has to visit the service centre several times (duration and circumstances is explicitly specified by the law) the car has to be replaced. Of course, different states have different versions.

I will give you one good example. This is pertaining to the DSG box issue of VAG group. Now, it's chief competitor ford is offering a 10 year warranty on its own DSG box. This point has come up more than once while debating not only on this forum, but on several international forums as well (including VW specific forums). However, when this DSG gearbox was first introduced about 3-4 years back, it too suffered from similar failures. In almost each and every instance, only the gearbox has been replaced. It was so bad, that sometimes even the new box used to fail. But, see now, ford is offering a 10 year warranty on the same box. It's more or less the same situation with VW. Their gearbox did suffer from initial hiccups, however, they have replaced the entire gearbox only. NOT THE ENTIRE CAR. Only, in some instances (mainly in the US) did they really replace the car. Infact, there have been no issues reported with the newer gen gearboxes of VW. Period.

New technologies are bound to have some problems in the beginning. There is no escaping that. As long as the manufacturer accepts its failure and takes the corrective measures, almost all customers will be happy.

I, for one, have always admired the tech in german cars, be it the engines, gearboxes, the NVH, the design etc. Japanese cars are simpler in general. There is very little to go wrong. They use tech which is now few decades old. Yes, there are some manufacturers who are doing a lot of research, but little has trickled down to the public. They are extremely abuse friendly for that very reason. They have just become evolutionary. Not revolutionary.
Now, you may say the same about the germans, and it is true to a large extent. But atleast they are offering something new. If not anything else. Don't get me wrong though. I am a fan of japanese cars for the very same reasons you have stated. They are much more consumer friendly even in places where the laws will allow them to go scot free.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

The company may have definitely gone wrong somewhere or else why would 14 other owners be ready to part with their cars for the demands of one.

I cannot comment on this specific case, since the media story does not have a lot of details. However, superficially, at least to me, it seems to be a bullying tactics of the businessmen group.

I will confess, that I wouldn't know what I would have done were I in their situation. However, theoretically at least, I would opt for an engine replacement AT FACTORY and some additional compensation.

The car in question has an engine which has been used in India since long. No such engine failures have been reported (at least in the media). The same engine is shared with the other cars as well. Hence, it is safe to assume that this particular incident is a one off case.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

It is at times like these when the Japanese and even Koreans for that matter, carve an even deeper impression of reliability in the minds of the customers, all at the expense of Ze Germans.

If you think that the japanese or korean manufacturers would have replaced the entire car, then I will say only one thing: "lets agree to disagree". None, not even the premium ones will offer an entire car to be replaced. Most manufacturers offer a part replacement. If you think that the premium manufacturers should go a step further, then that is a matter of another debate. It must be discussed in another thread. Reality is, it is not followed (even in the western countries).

Ultimately, as I said before, the premium car manufacturers sell because of brand pull more than anything else. They will behave like any luxury goods manufacturer. This is true not only here, but for the entire world.

Maybe, they act better in other countries. But that has more to do with the ethics and laws of the people.

The heartburn is always going to be more in case of the germans since for most people, it is their dream to own such cars. Hence, in almost all instances the anger is lot more (and to an extent justified as well). Hence, all these stories.

If you were to look objectively, from a businessman's angle, you'll see that they (as in the german manufacturers) are no different than the rest of the crowd.

Thanks,
Simple_car

[pujaari]

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

[Devenu]

Apologies if I missed some of the points made by fellow members, but one of the first things to be asked is : Is the car,especially the engine, under warranty?
If the answer to that question is yes then Audi needs to get the car sorted with no charge to the customer. If the answer is no then legally they are not obligated to do a no cost repair/ replacement.

I can relate to the incident because my 24 month, 18K KM old A4 has pulled off the engine Ka-put act, Twice!
No warnings, no dash light, just gone! so for fellow members who are speculating about the ignorance from the customer end, let me assure you that I am pretty clued into the cars i drive, and I was surprised myself! On both occasions the car made a flat bed journey to Pune, since we do not have a dealer in Aurangabad. On both occasions the dealer did not show any eagerness to share the nature of the failure and even after repeated mails and threats to them, they haven't shared a thing. Only saving grace is that they did everything for free!

Now some of the comments mentioned 'Misuse'
1) Over revving, without being personal, I would suggest driving one of these cars once.
2) No idea about warning lights, Cars can fail without warning, and it is scary, personal experience.

Anyways a premium car failing to perform it's prescribed duties isn't fun, so the owner is definitely pissed off. May Audi do the right thing!

On a lighter note, I would like to intern at an Audi dealership which gets an Audi R8 with rear seats, or bench or any space between the back of front seats and the Engine compartment, for upholstery change!