[geotracks]

It is so clear that TOYOTA just does not want to invest more than the bare minimum in the Indian market.

i) Indian customers get the TOYOTA ETIOS (high end diesel around INR 10L+-) and then they straight away have the INNOVA at INR 18L+- (high end).

ii) The ETIOS has a single wiper, single reverse light and not rubber beading on door frame

iii) TOYOTA does not have anything in the C2 segment (HONDA CITY, VW VENTO etc. comparision) which is between INR 10L+- to INR 18L+-.

iv) Until recently and for the longest time, for the INNOVA, TOYOTA did not even give dual air bags, for versions lower than 'V'

v) Currently the 4x2 AUTOMATIC TOYOTA Fortuner at INR 30L+ does not come with a cruise control. Come on TOYOTA, you are charging the Indian customer INR 30L and not giving a cruise control

vi) No automatic version for the Innova (so far), when INNOVAs in other countries have a AT version

vii) I have not researched personally, but I remember someone telling me that when excise duty was cut by government sometime back, TOYOTA did not pass back the excise duty tax benefits to customers?? while many other auto manufacturers did. Not sure of this, but I'll let someone here comment, if it is true or otherwise. Now when the excise duty has been increased, TOYOTA increases price of its products just like other auto manufacturers did this time

viii) International versions of CAMRY, COROLLA, 4-Runner etc. undergo relatively big changes every 5+- years. In comparison, the INNOVA barring few cosmetic changes has by & far remained the same for the Indian customer for past so many years.

After saying all this, would I still buy a TOYOTA someday? Yes maybe, since the fact is, TOYOTA engines are really good and they make good car, albeit with bland interiors. Only complaint is, TOYOTA should treat the Indian customer with parity with their other WW customers, more so because they charge a lot for their products in India which are not the latest.

[bsdbsd]

Originally Posted by geotracks

It is so clear that TOYOTA just does not want to invest more than the bare minimum in the Indian market.

You spoke my mind. You put it very succinctly. I am not sure why many people are defending Toyota here. Toyota is not the only one who is doing business here. The business climate is the same to all manufacturers and the playing field is reasonably level.

Its just that Toyota is not inclined to provide the best to India because we don't demand it. We deserve what we get. Their principle seems to be 'Machine Minimum Money Maximum'. As simple as that.

[Sebring]

I can bet that two products can change the 'fortunes' of Toyota, Avanza and Yaris. But bring them in fast.

[carmayogi]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Indian ecosystem is still developing. Doing business here is still troublesome(no matter what the PR). There are multiple hoops to jump through.

There are obviously a lot of points to consider here, but I strongly feel that, like VW, Toyota are not investing enough in India to be competitive in a volumes sort of way. Hyundai and Ford have proven that if you are export centric, you can have uniform products across global markets which is why we get almost the same i20, Verna and Elantra as the EU. Toyota should see the potential and invest in a big way to have mass volume products that are global. Their Etios strategy proves that a Made-For-India car rarely works. We want global products at reasonable prices. Frankly, the Fortuner should be not much more expensive than an XUV500. Taking the country's import rules as an excuse, all these guys upward of Honda City category charge too much and do small volume-high margin business.

Something has to change.

[rajshenoy]

Toyota does indeed have huge margins. Look at Innova or Fortuner prices !!

Atleast they seem to be readying the Honda city challenger(may be 2016) but Toyota being a large auto maker, should have launched it way back when they decided to launch Etios(Or make the Etios look normal, unlike a CAB)

I dont think anyone will defend Toyota here. There is nothing in a Toyota except for the reliability which others like Maruti,Hyundai also can offer for a normal user like me who might change car before it crosses 1.5L kms.

I am sure by next Auto expo, Toyota will re-position itself in Indian market

[charanreddy]

Other than the Liva and Etios, I don't see Toyota has made any real effort to cater to the Indian market. And to be honest Etios or Liva weren't very exciting either.

The Innova success despite the ridiculous pricing must be proof enough that India is a good market if quality is ensured.

I would love to see Toyota launch some thing like the RAV 4. This will just right for a market that craves SUVs.

I definitely do not want them to go down Honda's route with the Amaze et all. They will then loose their USP of reliability and subsequently brand value.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by charanreddy

I definitely do not want them to go down Honda's route with the Amaze et all. They will then loose their USP of reliability and subsequently brand value.

They already have. It's called Etios. No better than Amaze. And I think all this talk of Toyota reliability is a big hype. Honda , Suzuki cars are just as reliable.

[geotracks]

Was just reading about the TOYOTA 4 Runner which is sold in the US and is kind of 'equivalent' in looks, size etc. to the TOYOTA Fortuner sold in India.

The top end 2015 4 Runner is little less than USD 40K. Now if we convert INR 32L top end 2015 Fortuner, with an exchange rate of INR 62+-; the price comes to excess of USD 50K.

This itself indicates how much margins TOYOTA is making from Indian customers on products they sell in India. Then like I mentioned in my earlier post, TOYOTA Fortuner 4x2 AT version which is in excess of INR 30L does not even come with cruise control.

[shankar.balan]

Toyota has been milking the Indian market for a good long time.

A Camry or a Fortuner or an Innova or a Corolla are very affordable in South East Asia or the UK or the US or pretty much anywhere, compared with their pricing in India.

Toyota is considered a direct competitor to Suzuki and Honda pretty much anywhere in the world, except India. And nowadays, Kia and Hyundai are also fast catching up!

Personally, I would never pay such frightful premium prices for a Toyota - despite these vehicles being designed by eminently sensible, utterly reliable, solid people.

In India, their pricing strategy is quite ridiculous and I don't subscribe to it!

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

A Camry or a Fortuner or an Innova or a Corolla are very affordable in South East Asia or the UK or the US or pretty much anywhere, compared with their pricing in India.

This would be the case for pretty much any manufacturer. Primary reason is taxation. Total tax on a new car is 50 - 60% in India. In comparison, it is
<10% in US. In fact, it is Zero in 5 states.

http://www.factorywarrantylist.com/c...-by-state.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States

In comparison, cars in India attract:

1. Central Excise
2. State Sales Tax
3. RTO
4. Local Body Tax

Specifics Here:

http://www.mycarhelpline.com/index.p...=572&Itemid=10

(this example is for Delhi, imagine the same for Bangalore or Mumbai).

In far East, Philippines have taxation similar to India. I doubt Fortunner will be cheaper there.

In fact, Swift costs 8.5 lakh INR there (6.2 lakh PHP).

http://www.suzuki.com.ph/index.php?o...=65&Itemid=206

Originally Posted by geotracks

Was just reading about the TOYOTA 4 Runner which is sold in the US and is kind of 'equivalent' in looks, size etc. to the TOYOTA Fortuner sold in India.

This itself indicates how much margins TOYOTA is making from Indian customers on products they sell in India.

Toyota's net margins are in negative. It made net loss of few crores last year.

[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Toyota has been milking the Indian market for a good long time.

In India, their pricing strategy is quite ridiculous and I don't subscribe to it!

Toyota charges the prices they do, because they can ! To many car buyers who look for certain attributes, there isn't much choice really . Its a sad state of affairs, but unfortunately true.

Its also true that many owners whose vehicles run long distance value robust builds and easy to service features. And no other brand really serves them with greater honesty on those attributes

I have an Ertiga (2 yrs) and an Innova (9+ yrs old) and I can assure you Maruti's service is neither cheaper, nor more "predictable".

Hyundai seem to be getting the elements right. And with the ix25, and who knows, maybe a people mover + ix35+ Santa Fe, they can make a serious dent at Toyota's market share. I don't really see anyone else.

Renault has a great opportunity with the Lodgy. Hopefully they will get the pricing right and aggressively invest in their dealer footprint.