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Originally Posted by saket77 Also, point to be noted is that the Ertiga pictures posted a few posts earlier looks like being involved in a HEAD-ON crash with a big vehicle at a high speed. However, the Palio, unless the driver wanted it, must not have been involved in a head on collision with the train. It would have been a T-bone, where there would be a lot lesser damage to the structure of the car. Hence, pictures are not comparable, in my opinion. |
Even for a T-bone, the impact force of a train hitting a car is huge!!!
For e.g., the impact force of a Tata 407 ( with full payload at 5500 kilos) travelling at a speed of 80 kmph and stops in a distance of 10 metres will generate an impact force of around 12 tons. Whereas a train (a WDM2 weighs 112000 kilos) travelling at a speed of 50 kmph and stopping in a distance of 100 metres will generate an impact force of 12 tons as well.
Do agree that in the palio case the car must be close to stationary but in the case of Ertiga the relative velocity will be much higher. But the idea was to just show that impact forces can be comparable
The Ertiga had a head on crash with a Tata 407 truck. The Linea also (in one of subsequent posts) had a head on crash with a Tata 407 as well. So that should be atleast comparable, right?
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Originally Posted by A350XWB Deformed crumple zones does not worry me, but deformed passenger cabins do. Crumple zones are made for, well, crumpling under impact. Again, I have to ask the same question. Do we have the exact scenario of those two accidents? Just telling that the Palio was hit by a train does not give the whole picture, right?
I think you meant deformed passenger cabin.. |
Sorry my bad. I meant the Passenger cubicle instead of the crumple zone. Dont have exact scenario of both of them. But to have the exact scenario, we would need the speed of the car, speed of the train or truck, angle of impact, stopping distance of both car and train/tryuck to come to a conclusion. Am real sorry I dont have that!!
But all I can say is that the Palio passenger cabin is intact whereas the Ertiga is not.
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Originally Posted by A350XWB Even though you are dismissing the statistics, I have to ask a question. Go to the accidents thread and there are two different accidents one a Swift Dzire and another one a Honda City and laden trucks were toppled on top of them. The cars were transformed into sheets of metal under the weight. Now what would have happened if it was a European car? Do you think a Linea or a Vento can take the impact of a 40-50 ton truck falling flat on their top and keep the occupants safe? And why do you think these happened to Japanese cars? Is it because of bad handling? Thin sheet metal? Or due to the fact they were there at the wrong place at the wrong time? |
Well I do have enough proof to tell you that a European car owner and his family did walk away even after a truck filled with stones toppled
ON their car. So I guess now its time for you to admit that the European cars are better to their Japanese counterparts atleast in the INdian market!! :-)
Here is the link to the story !!!
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...st1422879#3088
May be it was the car driver, may be he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But he and his family did get a second chance at life atleast partly due to the car!!
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Originally Posted by A350XWB More than high speed handling, the major cause of accidents in India is the driver. The key is to understand the limits of the vehicle, the road and ones' own abilities which will help avoid accidents. One more question - the classical case: Princess Diana died in a Merc S-Class. By the European logic which is prevalent here, nothing would have happened to the people inside, right? Now, do not spin back the argument that accidents are different
I believe that a safe car can come from any manufacturer, irrespective of their nationality. And recently, the safest car (the one which scored the highest points in US crash testing) came from a Chinese manufacturer and there was a thread not so long ago regarding that. |
I completely agree with you on the driver part. Drivers decide the course of their lives. When they make an error, atleast the car should be able to cover up for his/her mistakes most of the time! Isnt that what we all want?
Princess Diana could have been alive if she had used the safety device in her car appropriately. She wasnt wearing a seat belt. No car cannot protect you if you are not wearing a seat belt!
Yes and any safe car car can come from any manufacturer. Its just that in the cut throat Indian car market, the manufacturers that cut corners (in safety) to please the customers in other areas are predominantly Japanese or Indian arms of Japanese companies.
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno You are right, but that is the case for all brands. A Polo or Punto whatever is tested outside India is not the same we get here. This was clearly illustrated by A350XWB with the EcoSport example where the Indian plant makes the more improved version for export market, but we don't get it here. The only way out is for India also to have some kind of a crash-test rating facility. Till then, the only way is to look at ratings of same/similar car outside India. Or worse rely on assumptions like you mention below. |
We are all talking on circumstantial evidence here. If we have an answer to the difference between a European/Japanese car in the other markets and the same car in the Indian market we could talk on real terms. Till then the Global NCAP or ASEAN NCAP is pretty much useless.
To give an example there is a helmet manufacturer called LS2. It has a model called FF350. It has a Sharp rating (UK rating) of 4 out of 5 which is good. They also have another model called FF351 which has a Sharp rating of 1 which is quite bad. Now these guys sell the same FF351 with a Sharp rating of 4 which is misleading and can be dangerous in an accident.
THis is precisely the problems we Indians are facing at the moment. Be it any manufacturer, unless there are stringent regulatory bodies to make sure that one is conforming to standards its very likely that the manufacturers will cut corners. So the quality of the car irrespective of how their safety ratings are in different markets will be a question mark in the Indian market. Having an Indian crash test should solve this problem!
Hope to ask these questions to the ARAI guys if I get a chance to meet them next week.