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Originally Posted by A350XWB No offence taken. That is exactly where a community like ours should help others understand that there are lots of factors which contribute to a safer car.
This is where the crash tests help. During crash testing, they try to see how each car behaves in similar situations and then give ratings accordingly. I for one, believe in those ratings because there is no other measurement criteria yet, which compares different models.
Are you not countering your own argument here by saying that Europeans do water down their Indian models? And please read the article where Ford themselves admitted that the EU version of the Ecosport has better structural rigidity and many parts which are different from their Indian spec car.
And I would not comment on who has watered down their cars in the Indian market because there is no exhaustive testing done to find it out. So, until I have scientific test results or evidence available, I would like to refrain from commenting on this; and will not base my arguments on word of mouth, urban legends or thuds I rest my case until then. |
And why pray tell are there no such tests available? Who controls this marketplace? Answer: the gang of 3 East Asian firms + Mahindra. Why? Because of even well-informed and well-travelled buyers swearing by them with no small amounts of blind faith, numbering in millions.
I have driven the Punto and the Ford Fiesta (previous two generations) in the UK, and have confirmed this several times from Fiat India engineers I have had the occasion to interact with: the Indian Punto is the SAME car as the Euro one, except for the use of cheaper materials in the interiors, and a torsion beam in the rear suspension. The UK Fiesta I drove felt just like the Indian Fiesta: that is, heavy, accurate, stable, and feelsome handling+braking+steering.
I have to simply repeat: these two cars out-handle, out-steer, out-brake, ou-grip and out-ride ALL of their Japanese and Korean competition. Throw in the far heftier build and what you get is the benchmark in the over-all quality of engineering. I am not saying the Japs are less capable, I am saying they have deliberately abused the immaturity of the market and the passivity of the government.
The Japanese and Koreans sell not for these features but because of a (well-earned?) superior PERCEPTION of reliability and ASS quality. Alongwith gadgetry and styling. And they have, through their early successes in this market, warped the automotive culture in India.
I'd argue the only perverse urban legend at play in this marketplace is the naive and almost touchingly blind belief in the reliability, quality, and 'value' of the Japanese and Korean brands.
So, a new Ford Fiesta sedan, a champion car, sells in single digits while a car as poorly executed as the Verna sells at 5000? A flimsy, cost-cut, very sub-par new Honda City sells at the record rate of 9000?!
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Originally Posted by IshaanIan Buddy the SX4 was Suzuki's third global strategic model back then, after the Swift and the Grand Vitara. It uses a Suzuki engineered Japanese chassis, drivetrain, transmissions both manual and CVT, awd system (abroad) etc. Suzuki was responsible for product management from concept to mass production. Fiat merely co styled the product with the Italdesign house and provided their MultiJet diesel motors. Infact their agreement was that 2/3rds of production would be done my Suzuki leaving 1/3rd for Fiat. In a nutshell, the product is a Suzuki.
Just because it happens to be a nice product, please don't jump your guns and point out that it was because Fiat had everything to do with it |
If that is so: why is it so obviously different and superior to all the other Suzuki products sold here, including the Swift? (Not including the Kizashi, of course, which was engineered to a totally different, un-Indo-Japanese i.e., American sporty sedan standard!
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno It is a perfectly valid example, given the context of our discussion where we are discussing cars sold in India and all 3 come under that category and are peers.
Also as an Indian customer I see the SX4 as a Suzuki - I don't care where it was designed or where its roots are from.
So thanks for finally confirming exactly the opposite of what you were claiming all along. All this time you were crying hoarse about the Asians giving us substandard stuff, while now you yourself have confirmed that the EUs (Skoda/VW) are the actual diluters while the Asian Suzuki has actually given the same EU engineered SX4 here without dilution.
Guess we can now close the case of the missing sheet-metal.
Please go ahead and check out similar data for Figo/Swift and you will see figures on the same lines. |
If you see all my particular posts, I have not been stressing sheet-metal at all. So, your sarcasm is mis-directed. I have been saying that the Japanese cars are out-ridden, out-braked, out-handled, out-steered, and out-engineered by the Fords and Fiats and the VW/Skoda d-segment cars. With or without heavy sheetmetal and with or without the extra safety/repair-ability that may or may not bring: the Euro cars are the engineering benchmark IN THIS MARKET.
The Jap and Korean firms couldn't be less bothered about all such hair-splitting about ride, handling, braking and sheetmetal: they're selling tens of thousands every month on the (valid?) promise of greater reliability and better ASS alone.
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