[VeyronSuperSprt]

Quite a few measures have been done to reduce pollution and congestion in Delhi. Now it looks like the government intends to extend it to all cities where congestion is an issue according to a TOI report:

There could soon be a cap on the registration of new cars in all cities grappling with congestion and pollution. This is one of the moves being mulled over by the Centre in consultation with state governments, reported The Times of India. According to the Centre's new roadmap, there could also be congestion taxes and disincentives on purchasing a second car.

“The roadmap is to ensure there is ease of transport and enhancing customer experience in transaction with transport and police departments.One of the proposals is to have a common portal for tax payments such as entry tax, state permit fee and other such charges. Since improving public transport is the key to check growth of private vehicles, there is a proposal to liberalise the sector to allow more private players to run buses,“ a government official told the English daily.


Source: TOI / Scroll.in

[commonman]

Sales of auto mobiles is one key bench mark of industrial development. So, I doubt the news and think that the centre will not go for the same.Government will try to enhance the road conditions rather than curb the sales of vehicles.

[VeyronSuperSprt]

Originally Posted by commonman

Sales of auto mobiles is one key bench mark of industrial development. So, I doubt the news and think that the centre will not go for the same.Government will try to enhance the road conditions rather than curb the sales of vehicles.

India is long past the stage where the government needs to use sales of automobiles as a yardstick of economic development. That method was relevant back in the day when India was an under developed economy. Given the rise of pollution and the lack of avenues to continuously improve infrastructure in cities, this seems to be among the more effective measures.

[ubermeow]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

India is long past the stage where the government needs to use sales of automobiles as a yardstick of economic development. That method was relevant back in the day when India was an under developed economy. Given the rise of pollution and the lack of avenues to continuously improve infrastructure in cities, this seems to be among the more effective measures.

A little bit of strictness a la Singapore, can be good for a country like India. Better still, we need to have a mature traffic management system and urban planning to address our problems. Water and Pollution are definitely our main area of concern.

[timuseravan]

I am looking forward to the day when the Govt proposes something constructive to solve problems instead of banning everything left and right. Congestion and pollution are definitely big problems.
But consider a city like Pune - big congestion problem and terrible public transport. What are the people supposed to do?

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

"Since improving public transport is the key to check growth of private vehicles, there is a proposal to liberalise the sector to allow more private players to run buses,“ a government official told the English daily.
Source: TOI / Scroll.in

The Govt should first start with this - make public transport good and accessible to all. Only then measures like cap on registration, congestion charges etc should be done.

[hangover]

There's only one solution to our pollution problems in cities.

Only one.

• Sort out roads in decreasing volume of traffic
• From manufacturers and ARAI testing identify vehicle emissions - highest to lowest
  • Categorization is across ALL vehicles with engines, even generators, ambulances and police vehicles
• Ban entry of highest toxic gasses emitting vehicles from the busiest roads

• Measure pollution levels two months
• 3 rd month ban 2nd highest level polluters and so on
• Penalties for disregarding these rules is both, a license suspension for 6 months + vehicle getting sold as scrap

Ban = 100% ban.

365 days & 24/7

This is done in Stockholm.

Works brilliantly.

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by hangover

There's only one solution to our pollution problems in cities.

Only one.

• Sort out roads in decreasing volume of traffic
• From manufacturers and ARAI testing identify vehicle emissions - highest to lowest
  • Categorization is across ALL vehicles with engines, even generators, ambulances and police vehicles
• Ban entry of highest toxic gasses emitting vehicles from the busiest roads

• Measure pollution levels two months
• 3 rd month ban 2nd highest level polluters and so on
• Penalties for disregarding these rules is both, a license suspension for 6 months + vehicle getting sold as scrap

Ban = 100% ban.

365 days & 24/7

This is done in Stockholm.

Works brilliantly.

First of all in India , there should be BAN on all sorts of bans.

2. The Scandinavian countries are failed pseudo communist experiment in utopian equality and fairness. When the best and brightest with innovative creative minds leave the country for abroad because of high tax rates and absurdly idiotic and draconian laws , then those utopian policies have failed.

3. First build a proper public transport network. There are lots of people like my mom for example who prefer public transport to driving. She uses a car because of non existent public transport .

4.Stop hiring brainless idiots to build public transport network. The Chennai metro for example doesn't even connect to the IT corridor of the city
. Majority of people commute from the inner city to the IT corridor and not in between inner city itself. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't connect any of the suburbs.

5. Encourage all forms of public transport . Most cities have a lethargic govenment companies running bus networks and share auto are not permitted on a lot of routes. Scrap permit raj asap.

6. Only Delhi has extreme pollution issues and that too only in winter. The coastal cities have no pollition issues whatsoever because the sea breeze blows away localized pollution.

7. If people at the end of the day prefer to use cars over public transport , its the government's responsibility to build more roads bridges flyovers and other infrastructure to accommodate more cars.

8. India being a democratic country and not a communist or a pseudo communist country like the Scandinavian ones ( at least after 1991 when socialim in India died ) , you can't force people to use public transport just because the dumb urban planners suggest so.

9. The dumb urban planners have always been suggesting squeezing people into small area which only leads to squalor disease and poor quality of life. There is a reason why rich well to do people even in island cities like New York City and San Francisco live outside the islands in far away suburbs is an example. The rest of the big cities in USA is predominantly suburban.

10. Spread out development ensures better quality of life. Develop the second tier cities and also the suburbs of big cities which are grappling with poor infrastructure.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

...Scandinavian countries are failed pseudo communist experiment in utopian equality and fairness. When the best..

..If people at the end of the day prefer to use cars over public transport , its the government's responsibility to build more roads bridges flyovers and other infrastructure to accommodate more...

It is my fondest wish to be born a Viking next time. I'll comment on the first point then.

W.r.t. building more roads - we are a poor country. A large part of GDP goes towards servicing old loans and staff salaries. My solution is cheap and easy. Imagine how much power you'll save.

Imagine how much more productive traffic cops can become. They'll have time to catch vehicle thieves. Plus have better pulmonary health. Since people will have zero wait times at signals, their BP will become normal. W.r.t. building more roads, I'm pretty sure we've not made a single "new" road. We've widened bullock cart tracks from hundreds of years ago. That's all.

Our beautiful toll roads are a straightened and widened cart track. The mountain roads in the Himalayas followed ancient travelers footsteps. We punched a few tunnels, yes. That's to avoid an arc type path and go on a chord path. Bridges - nothing new. Ancients went by raft. We go raft less. Same direction. Same intent.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

......make public transport good and accessible to all. ...........

In the long term certainly, a good transport system would be a great step in the right direction. But as of the moment, it is more utopian than immediately applicable.....

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

Quite a few measures have been done to reduce pollution and congestion in Delhi. Now it looks ...................government official told the English daily. Source: TOI / Scroll.in

I can only say that the Delhi experiment - or rather Kejriwal's experiment - seems to be having a salutary effect all around. And if the Centre in its wisdom (wonders will never cease!) is finally focussing on the problem, it is a tiny step in the right direction. The only problem (as we all know) would be forming a commission and letting the committee formulate plans & take decisions. Then we can rest easy that this issue too (congestion & pollution) will go the way of all flesh, vanishing into the distance of infinity without a solution. I just wish that a new Kejriwal would become the CM in each state - and take firm, well thought out decisions and stick to them.

Originally Posted by hangover

There's only one solution to our pollution problems in cities. Only one. [list][*]Sort out roads in decreasing.........This is done in Stockholm. Works brilliantly.

As someone mentioned here, Stockholm, Singapore etc. are great examples in themselves, but vis a vis India, it's just comparing cherries & grapefruit. Totalitarian measures are meaningless unless one goes all the way and finally ends up annihilating half the planet! Our single major problem - which no one wants to mention except in whispers, least of all our netas - is our exploding population. Control & bring down the population & most problems - like dominoes - will start falling into place & finding their own solution. One of the reasons for us to envy countries like Japan, Singapore and North European states, where there is either zero population growth or - hallelujah! - even negative population growth.

[GTO]

Fat chance of this ever happening. It will murder the automobile industry.

Fact 1 - Auto industry brings in huge investments, generates lakhs of jobs and pays big taxes. In a country where black money is plenty, cars are one of the few big ticket items bought purely in white (you can't buy a brand new car in an unaccounted cash transaction).

Fact 2 - Cities are big sales generators!

Originally Posted by ubermeow

A little bit of strictness a la Singapore, can be good for a country like India.

Does India want to become a car importing nation like Singapore, instead of a car manufacturing nation? Singapore's population is merely 5 million vs India's 1.3 billion. Singapore's size is 700 square kms vs 3.3 million for India. Lets not cut-copy-paste solutions from countries we have nothing in common with.

[MDED]

Originally Posted by GTO

Fat chance of this ever happening. It will murder the automobile industry.

Fact 1 - Auto industry brings in huge investments, generates lakhs of jobs and pays big taxes. In a country where black money is plenty, cars are one of the few big ticket items bought purely in white (you can't buy a brand new car in an unaccounted cash transaction).

Fact 2 - Cities are big sales generators!

Does India want to become a car importing nation like Singapore, instead of a car manufacturing nation? Singapore's population is merely 5 million vs India's 1.3 billion. Singapore's size is 700 square kms vs 3.3 million for India. Lets not cut-copy-paste solutions from countries we have nothing in common with.

Completely agree with GTO. Comparison of India with countries which are smaller in terms of land mass and population seems illogical. If Uttar Pradesh was a separate country, then in terms of population it will be 8th largest country on the planet. The market dynamics of India is far more different than that of developed nations.

I have witnessed in my profession the lead role played by automobile industry and it's ancillary units in terms of tax payment, employment generation (direct and indirect), not to forget exports of India made cars and overall uplift of the society are wherein they operate. So, if the government is planning for putting a brake on this industry or curbing it by some means, it has got the potential to derail the development engine of our country.

[pacman2881]

Banning registrations is akin to putting cart before the horse. Improve public transportation and private cars will go off the road on their own.
I personally hate driving in city traffic these days but I dread getting squeezed in public transport. The day I get a decent transport option I am happy not to drive in city.

Originally Posted by shashanka

Control & bring down the population & most problems - like dominoes - will start falling into place & finding their own solution. One of the reasons for us to envy countries like Japan, Singapore and North European states, where there is either zero population growth or - hallelujah! - even negative population growth.

Very good point. Most problems in our country is because of over-population. We cannot go on treating the symptoms without worrying about the disease.

[tibby]

Moves such as this are only a short-term solution, and are only to hide the poor work of the governments & local bodies.

What big cities really need is a well-connected and economical public transportation system.
Bangalore is one such city where the roads are clogged during peak-hours, and it is only getting worse by the day.

[hangover]

We can't reduce our population. Let's not talk of that.

As others have mentioned banning cars is like taking a time machine to the 19th century.

The suggestions above would certainly have precedent. We've got to learn from their mistakes. And adapt the best methods for our national circumstances.

Frankly I had no idea Singapore imports all cars. Nice.
They are also the worlds 2nd largest oil refining country in spite of not extracting a single drop from the island. Also Nice.

We've got oil and auto businesses. So we're already rocking. I tell my friends often. We don't recognize our own wealth and national character. Puny little European nations came begging to do business with us. We have the 4th largest natural resources of any type. Only Russia, Congo and US have a bit more.

So lets take a medium sized city (2nd or even 3rd tier). Take its people into confidence. Explain why we're doing this vehicle rationalization. By that I mean my idea. Max. pollution vehicles unwelcome in max. traffic density roads.

We measure the pollution parameters for 2 months. Why 2 months? That's to see if the pollution is due to vehicles or another source.

Once it's working well, take the next city. By the time we're at the 10 th city, the pilot city is now clean.

A hangover's paradise.

GTO and friends can open their Tesla dealerships.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by shashanka

I can only say that the Delhi experiment - or rather Kejriwal's experiment - seems to be having a salutary effect all around. And if the Centre in its wisdom (wonders will never cease!) is finally focussing on the problem, it is a tiny step in the right direction. The only problem (as we all know) would be forming a commission and letting the committee formulate plans & take decisions. Then we can rest easy that this issue too (congestion & pollution) will go the way of all flesh, vanishing into the distance of infinity without a solution. I just wish that a new Kejriwal would become the CM in each state - and take firm, well thought out decisions and stick to them.

I haven't been to Delhi but how is this a solution at all? The govt failed to provide adequate roads and public transport and now they are forcing people to stop using their vehicles? This just indicates total failure of Govt.

As someone mentioned here, Stockholm, Singapore etc. are great examples in themselves, but vis a vis India, it's just comparing cherries & grapefruit. Totalitarian measures are meaningless unless one goes all the way and finally ends up annihilating half the planet! Our single major problem - which no one wants to mention except in whispers, least of all our netas - is our exploding population. Control & bring down the population & most problems - like dominoes - will start falling into place & finding their own solution. One of the reasons for us to envy countries like Japan, Singapore and North European states, where there is either zero population growth or - hallelujah! - even negative population growth.

It has very little to do with population and everything to do with good governance and management. Japan and the state of Maharashtra have very similar population, land area and population density. Mumbai has a very similar population density as Paris. How do Japan and Paris manage so well and yet Mumbai and Maharashtra don't?